Re: deploy and buy in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21980560 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:03:18 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:03:18 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21985394 percosan : Thanks for this ... it made my day :-)

My numbers are still accurate though. And as we are sharing links ... »www.lightreading.com/document.as···site=cdn

-p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21985394 Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:24:20 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983869 Fubar : »www.google.com/products/catalog?···-sellers]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983869 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:35:03 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983731 dvd536 :
said by percosan See Profile :

Price is not the issue. The issue is the lack of desire to deploy higher speed services lacking competition.
You hit that nail right on the head!
thats why the "select areas" cable is deploying D3 in, are fios areas[haves]
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983731 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:06:13 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983254 hottboiinnc : i don't see cable having any issues. they're fiber is farther out to the customers and can quickly run the last mile to fiber as well. I wouldn't doubt many new build outs and upgrades have the FTTH/HFC equipment at the nodes just for that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21983254 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:18:56 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981941 iansltx : The difference is that, once FTTH is in the ground, you just upgrade the equipment on the ends of the fiber and watch your speed go through the roof. As in gigabits, tens of gigabits or even hundreds of gigabits per second. Cable is going to run into problems pretty quickly even with DOCSIS 3 if fiber truns on the heat anywhere.

One big thing right now: uploads. 30 Mbps per node. FiOS has no problem doing 20 Mbit symmetric. Cable companies can't do this without breaking their networks.

Heck, even downloads are iffy. Four channels bonded gets 152 Mbps of bandwidth, shared between everyone on the node. BPON shares 622 Mbps with everyone on the node, GPON shares 2.4 Gbps. THe big difference: cable companies have an order of magnitude more subscribers per node than PON systems do, or close to it, in normal instances.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981941 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:22:16 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981898 Lazlow : jadebangle

You do not need a 50Mbps tier to take advantage of D3. D3 CAN be used to increase speed, but it can also be used (without speed tier increase) to help with channel congestion. A D3 modem has 4 channels(downstream currently) to split or pick and choose from. If channels 1-3 are fully congested, but channel 4 is clear, the modem can download on channel 4. If all 4 channels are congested it can distribute its load (from that individual customer) evenly across all 4 channels or any combination that best fits the needs. Now all that assumes that the issue is at the node and not between the node and the internet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981898 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:15:06 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981709 percosan : Careful ... you can deploy FTTH and still offer a crappy service.

DOCSIS 3.0, if deployed, will achieve the objectives you describe below.

-s

said by iansltx See Profile :

So I hear. It's pitiful when a provider like Bresnan not only has node congestion issues (caused by DOCSIS 1.1 plus high people counts per node...though honestly 200 or so is average) but also has uplink bandwidth problems despite their use of cheap networks (360 etc.).

Bottom line: PowelLink is an amazing example of what places should do. That is to say, provide FTTH, high upload/download speeds, non-sucky access by building out their own infrastructure (fiber) that pretty much won't have to be replaced ever again :)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981709 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:38:28 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981689 percosan : I can guarantee you that this is accurate. Again, the Linksys modem cited below is another example of a proprietary (read NOT DOCSIS 3.0) cable modem that implements downstream channel bonding on 3 channels. When you read the text of their documentation, they are careful not to call it a DOCSIS 3 modem.

The minimum channel bonding requirement to be considered DOCSIS 3.0 is 4 in both the up and down stream. There are more feature (less headline but important) that are also included in DOCSIS 3.0.

No clue what the $500 is ... but I am sure that this is not the price of D3 modems that are available today.

-s

said by espaeth See Profile :

said by percosan See Profile :

DOCSIS 3 modems are about $20 to $25 higher in price and this is expected to drop with volume.

Price is not the issue. The issue is the lack of desire to deploy higher speed services lacking competition.
I suggest you look at a parts catalog again.

Even the Linksys WCM300-NA "linksys D3.0 DS Channel Bonding Cable Modem-DOCSIS" is still listed with an MSRP of $500.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981689 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:35:59 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981386 iansltx : So I hear. It's pitiful when a provider like Bresnan not only has node congestion issues (caused by DOCSIS 1.1 plus high people counts per node...though honestly 200 or so is average) but also has uplink bandwidth problems despite their use of cheap networks (360 etc.).

Bottom line: PowelLink is an amazing example of what places should do. That is to say, provide FTTH, high upload/download speeds, non-sucky access by building out their own infrastructure (fiber) that pretty much won't have to be replaced ever again :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981386 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:32:43 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981220 espaeth :
said by percosan See Profile :

DOCSIS 3 modems are about $20 to $25 higher in price and this is expected to drop with volume.

Price is not the issue. The issue is the lack of desire to deploy higher speed services lacking competition.
I suggest you look at a parts catalog again.

Even the Linksys WCM300-NA "linksys D3.0 DS Channel Bonding Cable Modem-DOCSIS" is still listed with an MSRP of $500.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981220 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:03:39 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981109 percosan : This begs the larger question ... what is the "true desire" for much higher speed access. It is easy to say more is better but at what point does the value proposition change??

I agree that DOCSIS 3.0 deployed to support DOCSIS 2.0 service classes makes no sense ... unless there is an expectation that the mass market customer will eventually be purchasing a product with access speeds exceeding 20 Mb/s.

-p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981109 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:37:24 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981094 percosan : DOCSIS 3 modems are about $20 to $25 higher in price and this is expected to drop with volume.

Price is not the issue. The issue is the lack of desire to deploy higher speed services lacking competition.

-p

said by iansltx See Profile :

The modems are expensive so I hear. As much as a few hundred $$$s.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21981094 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:34:08 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980957 Hi : It's all about the last mile run, with MSOs. Majority of these last mile runs, are all running on outdated hardware. I don't understand why the Cable COs just improve that in their network, instead of doing inept patch jobs, or implementing a service, they cannot provide.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980957 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:07:05 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980849 koolkid1563 : The Bresnan node we were on had 200+ subs on it according to what one of the techs told me. The internet always slowed to a literal crawl during peak hours and we couldn't expect to get any download speeds above 2Mb/s no matter what time of the day it was. Their claim is that no server (not even Microsoft's or Nvidia's) can push anything faster than 2Mb/s and that their network is more than adequate to handle it...Though they also said that I could only expect downloads of 2Mb/s max on their 15/1 tier. I could do it on my 10Mb/s connection on U-verse and I can do it now on the 10Mb/s FTTP connection I have through Powellink. Right now Bresnan is offering 8/384 or 15/1, but neither tier actually delivered.

DOCSIS 3 might help with the oversubscribed nodes giving them more headroom, but I don't think it will help their network backhauls which seem saturated as well. I also don't expect them to be upgrading the Powell market anytime soon if ever. On the TV side they haven't deployed VoD here due to the deployment costs being too high, so I doubt they will do anything with the internet either. In the meantime, the Powellink network will have time to mature and flex it's muscles and get a couple faster tiers going while Bresnan remains on DOCSIS 1.1.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980849 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:45:40 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980753 iansltx : Wait...that's like saying a car isn't limited by speed, jsut by how fast it can go.

DOCSIS 3 bonds channels to allow for extra bandwidth, and thence higher quality of service, and thence the ability for higher speed packages. Yes, you can push 30/5 over DOCSIS 2, but it's hard to do. DOCSIS 3 is all about headroom.

Also, DOCSIS 3 isn't for 12/2. It's for 22/5 or 50/10 or 60/5. It's pointless if your node isn't overcrowded on the last mile an you'r eonly offering 10/1, but as speeds increase yoou're gonna want better DOCSIS.

Again, DOCSIS 3 allows for Nx38/30 (and eventually Nx30) connectivity on the last mile. It alleviates congestion issues, and allows for greater speeds.

Of course, fiber can do all of this no problem, but you know the spiel...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980753 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:22:37 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980666 jadebangle :
said by iansltx See Profile :

The modems are expensive so I hear. As much as a few hundred $$$s.
Upgrading to 3.0 for speed of 12/2 won't increase speed or performance

Very few user will get it most of us will be fine with 2.0 or 1.0

Another waste of hardware upgrade

Cable haven't even used up 42/10 on docsis 1.0 for any subscriber
If we are offered 42/10, my bandwidth use would slow everyone down to a crawl. Cable technology is limited by bandwidth not how fast you can download/upload :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980666 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:06:00 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980636 jadebangle :
said by neufuse See Profile :

why not let the people who want it now just buy the DOCSIS3 modems? yes i know they are not retail avaialble yet.. but you could still sell them to the user via the cable co.
Majority of user don't have a need for it

You need 50mbps tier to make use of docsis 3.0

You can get 50mbps tier with docsis 2.0 but it will be like

42mbps/10mbps
Good enough for me
docsis 3.0 useless for now ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980636 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:00:55 EDT Re: deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980560 iansltx : The modems are expensive so I hear. As much as a few hundred $$$s.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980560 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:47:09 EDT deploy and buy http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980535 neufuse : why not let the people who want it now just buy the DOCSIS3 modems? yes i know they are not retail avaialble yet.. but you could still sell them to the user via the cable co.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,21980535 Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:43:23 EDT