dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
 ·Covad Communications
1 edit | reply to beaups
Re: Doesn't Surprise Me
That's your opinion. However I live in D.C. and even when 4 million flooded the City for the inauguration there were no interruptions in service. AT&T worked fine.
All of the carriers are good in some areas and bad in others. You cannot expect the carriers which are struggling financially to spend lots of money on temporary events.
So get over it and realize that cell phones are a "nicety" but not an "necessity".
Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. |
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beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH
| I posted no "opinion" in my post. Fact is, at OSU football games att data doesn't work. At all. I am not complaining or even suggesting that I have a problem with it....nor did I state anything about it being a "necessity". I was merely providing an observation.
What exactly does my experience at football games have to do with a 3rd world country? |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| actually you did say:
ATT is bad for whatever reason at handling large groups of people.
That is an opinion just like I when I say that all of the carriers are bad in some areas and good in others.
AT&T should not be singled out here. The technology of cell phones and the lack of funding to correctly deploy it to get around its limitations are the real culprits. |
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MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat  :That's your opinion. However I live in D.C. and even when 4 million flooded the City for the inauguration there were no interruptions in service. AT&T worked fine. All of the carriers are good in some areas and bad in others. You cannot expect the carriers which are struggling financially to spend lots of money on temporary events. So get over it and realize that cell phones are a "nicety" but not an "necessity". Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. What planet do you live on? AT&T has billions to spend. Are you even in the right thread?
Cell phones are more reliable than landlines in most 3rd world countries.
AT&T is not CDMA
We are talking data here, some of us who are paying $39.99 a month for so we damn well better have a working service.
Austin specifically, has had data issues for as long as I lived here (2.5 years) but AT&T has better coverage than Verizon for me, especially in the Hill Country. |
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rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat :
Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA.
Can't use CDMA phones, but guess what....
UMTS is W-CDMA.  |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
3 edits | reply to MrMaster
said by MrMaster :What planet do you live on? Is there another one to live on?
said by MrMaster : AT&T has billions to spend. Are you even in the right thread? AT&T does not have billions to spend on network upgrades. Please research their financial records before making such as statement. I did.
And yes I am in the right thread.
said by MrMaster :Cell phones are more reliable than landlines in most 3rd world countries. That's not entirely accurate since the cellphones actually work by interfacing with the PSTN. If the PSTN is unreliable in third world countries, then the cell phones are also going to be unreliable. Unless you are suggesting that AT&T runs private networks to all third world countries and then backhauls the traffic back to the US so it can send it back to its origination. That would be horribly inefficient and simply not the way it is done.
said by MrMaster :AT&T is not CDMA That is correct. I never said AT&T is CDMA. They use UTMS for voice and HSPA for data. When neither is available, it falls back to GSM or roams on another GSM carrier.
Sprint and Verizon user CDMA for voice and EVDO for data. And a very small number of their phones will actually have a secondary radio inside them that can access GSM and UTMS networks.
said by MrMaster :We are talking data here, some of us who are paying $39.99 a month for so we damn well better have a working service. Actually we are talking about both, depending upon the network since AT&T can actually send Voice and DATA GSM/UTMS/HSPA unlike it's competitors which cannot do simultaneous voice and data over their networks. Sprint and Verizon use CDMA for voice and 1xRTT/EVDO for data. But they cannot send both voice and data at the same time due to the technology of CDMA.
said by MrMaster :Austin specifically, has had data issues for as long as I lived here (2.5 years) but AT&T has better coverage than Verizon for me, especially in the Hill Country. I have actually found my Verizon card to work better in Austin than my AT&T phone or card. However, Sprint beats them both in that particular area since they seem to roam better with some of the rural and private carriers (such as the oil companies).
I am not advocating any single carrier. Just do your research and find the one that works the best in your area most of the time.
And let's all stop believing that cell phones are perfect. All wireless technologies have weaknesses. That's why backbone connections are (can we all say it together) WIRED. |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat :So get over it and realize that cell phones are a "nicety" but not an "necessity". Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. I agree that cell phones are not always going to work, but they should be able to at least make phone calls. These companies are big enough to have temporary measures in place when large events occur. I have been to many games and large events with my SPRINT phone and it has been fine, even data (had to really express that I use SPRINT since you really seem to be stuck on ATT).
My cell phone worked fine in all kinds of countries from South America to Europe. Roaming however on many occasions.
As far as third world countries, all carriers are the same and it depends on the phone. My connected fine while others did not. ATT users had trouble and had to buy or rent a phone while mine worked fine (for about $1.00 a minute).
So, to be childish.... oh wait, lets compare how many "Can you hear me now" tests we each have done, you with ATT and me with Sprint and list all the countries we have done them in??? |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| reply to rec9140
said by rec9140 : said by dcdeadbeat :
Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA.
Can't use CDMA phones, but guess what.... UMTS is W-CDMA. UTMS is W-CDMA. But CDMA by itself usually references CDMA2000.
Current wireless technologies:
W-CDMA: GSM/UTMS/HSPDA/HSPA/LTE (all same family)
CDMA2000: 1xRTT/CDMA/EVDO/UMB (all same family)
WiMax (only currently used by Clear)
1. CDMA2000 is not compatible with UTMS networks.
2. Verizon will be using LTE instead of UMB in the future to become compatible with its parent company Vodaphone which uses UTMS based systems (as does most rest of the world)
3. Sprint was using GSM in some cities but switched to CDMA and iDen (Nextel). Currently planning on using a combo of CDMA200, WiMax, and LTE in the future. |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
1 edit | reply to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684 :So, to be childish.... oh wait, lets compare how many "Can you hear me now" tests we each have done, you with ATT and me with Sprint and list all the countries we have done them in???
I have only been to 37 countries. So my list would not be exhaustive. However when I go I don't ever take my Sprint or Verizon wireless cards or phones. I only take my AT&T ones since it is likely that I will be able to find a UTMS carrier in one of them that AT&T will roam on.
And if I can't find a roaming partner, I will just remove my SIM card and buy one for a local carrier.
You can't do that with CDMA2000 carriers since the technology doesn't allow for SIM cards. |
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keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Teliax VOIP
·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
1 edit | Does ATT not lock there phones? Putting another carrier SIM card in does not sound like it would work, but maybe. I will admit I carried an old T-Mobile phone so I could use, if need be, another carrier SIM but it was never needed. The price came out to be the same and your phone number was different, so inbound calls were pointless.
I guess it has never been a problem with me. Even in places where ONLY GSM cellular calls can be made, I have no trouble... based on the phone model.
And I take it you are talking about data? Or Both? I am talking about making a phone call. |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat : You cannot expect the carriers which are struggling financially to spend lots of money on temporary events. So get over it and realize that cell phones are a "nicety" but not an "necessity". Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. AT&T should not be singled out here. The technology of cell phones and the lack of funding to correctly deploy it to get around its limitations are the real culprits. Jesus, what a LOAD OF BS.
AT&T has BILLIONS to spend - it's just a greedy MF corp that does NOT want to spend anything beyond necessary, rather take it out as a profit.
Secondly they sell their services as RELIABLE and for MONEY - nobody should take it as a "nicety", that'd be downright idiotic when you PAY for it.
Lastly you can use your Crackberry Storm with SIM cards because it's a hybrid GSM/CDMA phone, moreover if you ask for it you can get at least a SIM card for traveling.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE] |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
4 edits | reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat :said by keyboard5684 :So, to be childish.... oh wait, lets compare how many "Can you hear me now" tests we each have done, you with ATT and me with Sprint and list all the countries we have done them in??? I have only been to 37 countries. So my list would not be exhaustive. However when I go I don't ever take my Sprint or Verizon wireless cards or phones. I only take my AT&T ones since it is likely that I will be able to find a UTMS carrier in one of them that AT&T will roam on. And if I can't find a roaming partner, I will just remove my SIM card and buy one for a local carrier. You can't do that with CDMA2000 carriers since the technology doesn't allow for SIM cards. Utter nonsense - it's the phone, not the "CDMA2000 carrier" or the "technology". 
FYI both Sprint and Verizon offered hybrid phones years ago (made by Motorola, Samsung etc.) already and now you can even get PDA phones like that (eg Storm) with all the bells and whistles including 3G/HSDPA/EVDO, touchscreen up to VGA etc.
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said by bicker :Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them. |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| reply to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684 :Does ATT not lock there phones? Putting another carrier SIM card in does not sound like it would work, but maybe. I will admit I carried an old T-Mobile phone so I could use, if need be, another carrier SIM but it was never needed. The price came out to be the same and your phone number was different, so inbound calls were pointless. I guess it has never been a problem with me. Even in places where ONLY GSM cellular calls can be made, I have no trouble... based on the phone model. And I take it you are talking about data? Or Both? I am talking about making a phone call. AT&T does lock its phone. But I have never had a problem getting their support to send me the unlock code for phones and data cards.
And on UTMS it does not matter whether it is voice or data as both travel on the same system. UMTS can do simultaneous voice and data. |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| reply to kamm
Read the CDMA2000 specs. They do not allow for sim cards. Therefore if your current carrier does not have a roaming agreement with an international carrier (and the carrier is using CDMA2000 and not UMTS) then you are out of luck.
Starting with GSM and kept in the specs for each generation, sim cards have allowed phones to be used with different carriers. And in some countries it is required. So if you purchase a phone from one carrier and it does not work, you can then just purchase a sim card from another carrier, insert it and start chatting away.
I will agree that some phones have better radios than other phones. But CDMA2000 is far less efficient than UTMS in terms of its ability to handle many connections.
But both technologies are limited entirely by which frequencies each carrier uses and the geographic layout.
And in this case, does anyone know if AT&T has switched Austin to 850 instead of the 1900 frequency? The 850 frequency has better penetration but AT&T has not switched all of its network to using this frequency. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat :Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. A few points, and then I'll leave.
1: Many people have ditched land lines for cell phones only, making them more of a necessity
2: I tend not to vacation in 3rd world countries (I'm fickle, I guess), and Verizon does sell some phones that work on GSM networks (I happen to have one).
3: While no official estimate exists, the generally accepted attendance number for the Obama inauguration is approx 1.8 Million people.
While it's a record number, it's a far cry from 4 million.
Sorry
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| reply to kamm
said by kamm :said by dcdeadbeat : You cannot expect the carriers which are struggling financially to spend lots of money on temporary events. So get over it and realize that cell phones are a "nicety" but not an "necessity". Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. AT&T should not be singled out here. The technology of cell phones and the lack of funding to correctly deploy it to get around its limitations are the real culprits. Jesus, what a LOAD OF BS. AT&T has BILLIONS to spend - it's just a greedy MF corp that does NOT want to spend anything beyond necessary, rather take it out as a profit.Secondly they sell their services as RELIABLE and for MONEY - nobody should take it as a "nicety", that'd be downright idiotic when you PAY for it. Lastly you can use your Crackberry Storm with SIM cards because it's a hybrid GSM/CDMA phone, moreover if you ask for it you can get at least a SIM card for traveling. You should read your Terms of Service and Service Level Agreement. Also recommend you read AT&Ts financial report because they don't have billions for network upgrades for their wireless division.
The Storm is a hybrid phone that will work in other countries. But what about all the other non-hybrid phones that Verizon and Sprint sell? Out of luck? |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to keyboard5684
I have AT&T (HTC Tilt), Sprint (Treo 800w and Blackberry 7100i).
In SoCal, Sprint and AT&T are roughly the same in the city, with possible better coverage outdoors on Sprint, indoors on AT&T. The Blackberry 7100i on Sprint's iDEN is not bad either.
In northern Michigan, Sprint is roaming and my 7100i is a paperweight/brick. Tilt works.
In northern Ontario/Canada, I haven't had a chance to use Treo800w, but Sprint 7100i is useless on iDEN. |
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dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| reply to N3OGH
1. Yes but you leave out the fact that many people are ditching landlines not for just cellular but a combination of cellular and VOIP/Digital Voice/Skype, etc.
I myself tried using cell phone only and found I missed the sound quality that a landline (or VOIP) could provide. So I use my cell only when I am away from my home or business.
2. Yes they sell some hybrid phones. But most of their phones are CDMA only.
3. So what about the people that live and work in D.C.? I know we are not a state, but we still use our cell phones.
In the actual Mall there was only 1.8 million. But that only accounted for a fraction of the people in the District at that time. And guess what? No interruptions with any of the carriers I use (Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T). |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to dcdeadbeat
More likely that AT&T didn't deploy 'enough' spectrum on 3G.
Many areas (Los Angeles was one) that had issues with capacity when AT&T launched a single 1900MHz carrier channel on UMTS even if I had good signal and was standing next to an AT&T cell site (yes, I know where they are).
I suspect that is the issue in Austin as well. Others have posted about this issue on Howard Forums AT&T 3G .
Part of the 'issue' with UMTS is that both voice and data run over the same spectrum. I.E. a single 5MHz carrier channel has to provide both voice and data for 3G users. CDMA2000 runs voice on 1x and data on either EVDO or 1x. |
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Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·PenTeleData
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
| reply to dcdeadbeat
said by dcdeadbeat :Have you ever tried using your Sprint or Verizon phone in a third world country? Oh wait, you usually can't because most of the world uses UTMS not CDMA. I've found that using a US GSM phone in a foreign country to be impractical because you pay through the nose in roaming charges and you can't just pop a local SIM in there.
So what I ended up doing was getting a prepaid phone from the country I went to. |
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