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Graytooth13
join:2008-07-28
Tomball, TX
| [ Classes] DK best TANK spec I geared my hunter and got bored, so I rolled a DK. I have a shaman in the mid 70's that I've healed with since vanilla, so I decided to try tanking.
I studied up on warrior and pally tanking during BC, but DK's are obviously a bit different not having a shield and all. I figure their most important stats must be dodge and parry followed by defense and stamina. How important is hit and expertise to a tank? Should I get it capped before moving onto other stats? Agility for extra armor over strength? (I know str contributes to block, but they don't have shields so no block right?)
As I level, I'm using a blood heavy spec to heal myself while tanking. My build - »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···z015001y
I hear that unholy is the level 80 tanking build. It always seemed like it would be frost to me.
Are there any DK tanks out there that can give me some advice on stat priority (gear, gems, enchants) and build?
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Don't we already have like 4 of these threads?
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I melt faces. | |
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Graytooth13
join:2008-07-28
Tomball, TX
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec said by Archivis  :Don't we already have like 4 of these threads? No! They're all DK DPS or DK are OP threads.
said by awesome :Having never tanked blood, I'd probably go with something more like this. »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···05z005yd at 65. I can see ditching your self healing talents at 80 because you can expect your healers to be up to par. When leveling it's harder to find good heals which is why I chose blood.
Anyway, I do plan to respec to something more plausible at 80.
What's up with str and why is it such a benefit to tanking? Is it just extra dps to improve threat? | |
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awesome
Premium
join:2008-03-03
Reedsville, OH | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec You also get Parry from STR. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| I've heard frost is the best tanking spec (lichborne, unbreakable armor, etc.), though I've never tanked extensively (I'm deep and heavy blood dps). When I tank I just throw on a different set of gear, I don't bother respeccing or re-glyphing. I still top dps charts too.
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Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | |
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Don69Fire
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Danville, WV | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec frost or unholy.... 1 is AoE and 1 is more of a cc/single tgt tank... | |
| uvray
join:2008-08-15
Fredericton, NB
| Here's my unholy tanking build: »chardev.org/?t=dk,1u2,a352,16,92···11,1jlb6
It has lichborne in it, but after 3.1 it'll be next to useless as the 25% miss chance is getting removed. A few points in unholy can be rearranged on preference (gargoyle, master of ghouls, dirge, etc...) but obviously anything increasing your AoE dmg is essential to hold threat.
IMO, stam and str are the 2 key stats and after you get 541 def rating, work on parry then dodge. | |
| | Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec 5/5/5 and then fill a tree as you please, hey presto, tank spec!  | |
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Tirael
@army.mil
| said by Graytooth13 : I studied up on warrior and pally tanking during BC, but DK's are obviously a bit different not having a shield and all. I figure their most important stats must be dodge and parry followed by defense and stamina. How important is hit and expertise to a tank? Should I get it capped before moving onto other stats? Agility for extra armor over strength? (I know str contributes to block, but they don't have shields so no block right?) As I level, I'm using a blood heavy spec to heal myself while tanking. My build - » wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···z015001y I hear that unholy is the level 80 tanking build. It always seemed like it would be frost to me. Are there any DK tanks out there that can give me some advice on stat priority (gear, gems, enchants) and build? First off, Def is more important than anything else until you cap. Then you would want to have a healthy mix of stam vs dodge/parry. Also parry is still "broken" so you gain more of a benefit from stacking dodge or dodge/stam gems. Every spec can tank, it just depends on what you want to do. Blood = Highest Single Target threat Frost = Highest mitigation through the use of cooldowns like UBA and LB Unholy = Highest Aoe threat
Now all this being said, any spec can AOE tank and any spec can MT but some are a little better than others. Picks your play style and have fun with it.
Hit/expertise is ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS FOR DEATH KNIGHT TANKS. Expertise give more of a benefit than hit does in the threat generation department. Melee hit cap = 8% or 265 hit rating spell hit cap = 17% expertise soft cap = 6.5% or 26 expertise
With 3.1 looming over our heads, Blood tanking is receiving a buff to its avoidance, Unholy is receiving a buff to its Aoe damage and frost is receiving a slight nerf to their avoidance. Honestly I run 7/53/11 right now which works for me. I will probably run a similar spec when 3.1 hits because I just don't use my CDs that much anyways. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| It all depends.
I do not like Unholy because the rotations are clunky at best.
Blood needs setup time to get any threat for AOE pulls and lacks any good mitigation past the extra health and other heals.
Frost is where the core mitigation abilities lie. You have lichborne, frigid dreadplate, frost aura, acclimitazion, and howling blast for great AOE..
However Dk's are gear dependent for great tanking. We'll get nerfed in 3.1, but I still believe we will be one of the better tanks.
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www.theebonhold.com | |
| | uvray
join:2008-08-15
Fredericton, NB
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec said by NOCMan :It all depends. I do not like Unholy because the rotations are clunky at best. Blood needs setup time to get any threat for AOE pulls and lacks any good mitigation past the extra health and other heals. Frost is where the core mitigation abilities lie. You have lichborne, frigid dreadplate, frost aura, acclimitazion, and howling blast for great AOE.. However Dk's are gear dependent for great tanking. We'll get nerfed in 3.1, but I still believe we will be one of the better tanks. Clunky? For AoE tanking trash or single target bosses? Either way, I have a hard time seeing the "clunk"
Single - IT, PS, BS, BS, SS, UB, runic dump
AoE -DnD, DG, IT, PS, Pest, UB, BB, runic dump
Are you saying that it gets troublesome after the initial sequence? I've found that even with extremely high DPS and my moderate gear, I can face roll after the opener in any encounter. | |
| 
darthur2000
join:2002-01-02
Middletown, CT
clubs:
| I tank in a 54/5/12 and really like it. Blood spec doesn't have as much mitigation as frost but it gives a few extra bonuses for tanking like Blood Aura for raid members to heal themselves, Improved Rune Tap for healing your party (I've crit healed myself for 16k which is a very nice os button to have), and Mark of Blood which is nice to throw on a boss (the way it works if my health is 35k each hit on me heals me for 1.4k). As for getting aggro, not really a problem, even on multiple trash pulls. Only time I've had problems were when people were being stupid and trying to get aggro. | |
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Katuz
@cgocable.net
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec I am currently specced Unholy now and i think that Unholy Blight is probably my best friend with Dirge and Wondering Plague helps as well, I hear that unholy blight will be moved more than half way up the tree It is an amazing tanking tool for constant TPS withought even attacking, So i imagine we will see many more Unholy DK tanks come 3.1 | |
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Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Unholy Blight and Gargoyle are trading places. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec said by Archivis :Unholy Blight and Gargoyle are trading places. Arch, what are your thoughts on tanking after 3.1? With the loss of parry bone shield might be harder to keep up, but Lichborne is losing its ability as a tanking CD. It seems it's getting plain harder, although Frost presence is getting buffed.
Will all serious tanks be frost due to the added AoE utility of non-tree-dependent spells (blood boil)? What are your thoughts on that? | |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com
| »www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla···nts.html
^Imho that is the best heroic/trash tanking spec^
its amazing because i can hold aggro with 3 ppl over 3k deeps in a heroic just popping DnD every CD cause of all the bonus AP and then Impurity (spells recieve 25% of AP)
»www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla···nts.html
^this is my boss spec(without a shammy)^
»www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla···nts.html
^this is my boss spec(with a shammy)^
i just cycle through 1min CDs(besides Unb. Ar. cause i dont wanna screw my rotation up) and trinkets
And as far as 3.1 is concerned, im happy theyre making it harder. I positively hate the fact that i can sleep through a 10man boss that doesnt require me to move. Ill post my talent build if/when 3.1 ever comes out  | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec How do you think 3.1 is changing things? Frost is now a reduction to all damage instead of just magic/physical (forget which). Lichborne is losing its usefulness to a tank. The parry nerf means it will be even harder for an Unholy DK to keep bone shield up, even with 6 charges. Will frost be the better tanking spec now?
I'd check out your builds but I'm at work. Check out getbuffed.com for a 3.0.9 talent calculator that isn't blocked for me. :P
I got my Titansteel Destroyer last night gifted for free to me by a friend. That was a MAJOR FTW! | |
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deathtank
@army.mil
| After trying strait frost for tanking i went to this build about a month ago.
»www.wowarmory.com/character-tale···=Wymoren
its been working well for me aside from minor agro probs, mainly with rogues pulling it off me. I have tanked 10 man naxx and 10/25 OS with no probs. (other than rogues pulling agro) | |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com
| Imo Blizz is doing what they didnt want to, and thats making Frost the tanking spec and the other 2 dps specs. Bonesheild going to a 2min CD makes unholy not worth it besides blight, Vampiric Blood or wte is getting nerfed meaning all those straight blood tanks are useless. Frost will be the way to go with 10% damage reduction from blade barrier plus the imp frost presence or wte it is, and going into blood or unholy depending on your needs such as aggro or more mitigation.
IMHO Blizzard screwed DKs over cause we'll always be either OP as tanks or UP. Thats my $.02 anyways | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
2 edits | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec It seems like a straight nerf to DK tanks regardless of spec, because all the tanking abilities have either been nerfed with a 200% longer CD or taken away completely.
I don't have the bluepost link atm (at work), but I recall a Blizz post at how they wanted DKs to be caster OTs.
I'm currently specc'd unholy tanking 9/8/54, but with bone shield CD going to 2min, and the BB parry going away, it seems like it's better to de-emphasize the parry needed to keep Bone Shield up and just go frost for damage mitigation. Too bad UB is still a 21 point talent which means you can't go 51 points in frost to get Howling Blast and still pick up UB. You wouldn't try and hybrid frost/unholy anyways because you still need 5/5 in BB. You'd also want 5/5 Anticipation, 3/3 in Morbidity, 2/2 in Epidemic, 2/2 in Unholy Command, and 5/5 in Toughness.
That's 22 points already in core tanking abilities, so that does limit you. You could get the 51-point talent in each tree, though (you already have 5 blood, 5 frost, and 12 unholy), so it doesn't necessarily rule out any tree for tanking, but it gives you less flexibility than what you have now.
Edit: Not sure about Frost's future as a tanking tree because I think HB got it's CD doubled as well. So D&D, IT, Pest, HB, FS RP dump while waiting for rune CD), OB, blood tap, OB.... not sure how often you could cycle HB, so you'd constantly have to be tabbing and obliterating different targets to maintain threat. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Can you link those specs on getbuffed.com ? I'm at work and can't see wowhead.
At the bottom of getbuffed's talent calculator they have a "link this build" url.
I'm still gearing from heroic. You can look me up... Krisnatharok on Grizzly Hills. Defcapped (542, 553 with sigil), 30k hp, working on avoidance atm. | |
| | | Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Oh  I was really enjoying my unholy tank. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec General question... What is the best avoidance stat to stack? I am a JCer and can gem any 3 of the special JC gems...
The following could be useful for tanks: 3x +27 defense rating, 3x +27 strength, 3x +54 attack power, 3x +27 parry rating, 3x +27 resilience rating, 3x +27 expertise rating, 3x +27 hit rating, 3x +27 dodge rating, or 3x +41 stamina. Obviously some more useful than others.
So.. what should I be going for? | |
| | | | | Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Dodge goves more avoidance per point than Parry so that's a start. | |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com
| Ok there's been questions about tanking in 3.1 so i've looked over the ptr notes.
-Nerfs-
Death Strike- -20% healing
Blade Barrier- 5% damage reduction instead of +10% parry
Lichbourne- No more +25% miss
Vampiric Blood- CD increased to 2 mins
Unbreakable Armor- CD increased to 2 mins
Bone Shield- CD increased to 2 mins
-Buffs-
Blood Boil- Damage is increased
Frost Presence- +5% damage reduction instead of 15% magic reduction
Unbreakable Armor- Damage reduction instead of physical damage reduction
So basically, it's a huge nerf to dk tanks. Will it be harder? In all honesty, no. Other than Mark of Blood and Bone Shield, I never used CDs in 25man naxx, not even Patchwerk. Look at it this way, as an unholy tank, we have -20% damage reduction 40-60% of the fight, now we have -10% damage reduction 99% of the fight. I'll play with the specs in heroics but from the look of it, i wont be changing my spec. 30% damage reduction for 20-30% of the fight sounds good to me. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec I agree. I am Unholy already, and would have switched to it from Frost if I wasn't already. Just stack avoidance and strength to make up for the lost parry.
One note you forgot to mention is that Howling Blast, the core AoE aggro ability in Frost is getting its CD doubled from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
But this is historic from Blizz. HB has been all over the map--no CD, 5 sec CD, 10 sec CD; double damage from frost fever, 50% more damage, no extra damage. Blizzard needs to decide what they want to do with this talent, now more than ever it is swapping places with Hungering Cold. I can see them upping the CD because it's the de facto prima donna of the Frost tree, but it had better hit hella hard to make up for that.
I can't see Frost being used for tanking anymore. Lichbourne is no longer a tanking talent, and having Unbreakable Armor up for 1/6 of the time leaves too much of a gap to chain CDs with. The only viable build would be this... Unholy Blight (where Gargoyle is now) and Frost Strike. 5/45/21
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0500011q
I personally think all these changes won't go live. Blizz has a history of overreacting to an OP class by nerfing it, then fine-tuning. I think there are too many nerfs here to see in 3.1. I'm hoping, anyways. | |
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Tirael
join:2009-03-18
Savannah, GA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec said by Krisnatharok :I agree. I am Unholy already, and would have switched to it from Frost if I wasn't already. Just stack avoidance and strength to make up for the lost parry. One note you forgot to mention is that Howling Blast, the core AoE aggro ability in Frost is getting its CD doubled from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. But this is historic from Blizz. HB has been all over the map--no CD, 5 sec CD, 10 sec CD; double damage from frost fever, 50% more damage, no extra damage. Blizzard needs to decide what they want to do with this talent, now more than ever it is swapping places with Hungering Cold. I can see them upping the CD because it's the de facto prima donna of the Frost tree, but it had better hit hella hard to make up for that. I can't see Frost being used for tanking anymore. Lichbourne is no longer a tanking talent, and having Unbreakable Armor up for 1/6 of the time leaves too much of a gap to chain CDs with. The only viable build would be this... Unholy Blight (where Gargoyle is now) and Frost Strike. 5/45/21 » wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0500011qI personally think all these changes won't go live. Blizz has a history of overreacting to an OP class by nerfing it, then fine-tuning. I think there are too many nerfs here to see in 3.1. I'm hoping, anyways. No...just no. I have actually played with frost on the PTR and I am here to tell you that if you tanked pre-wotlk then you can still tank as frost. If you go anyother spec, you are looking at losing 3% chance to miss from frigid dreadplate also. also the build you posted would really mess with threat generation Kris. No expertise talent???? Also as for HB. If you take Rime, when it procs the HB CD is refreshed, according to the last build I read up on. This build would be most useful in 3.1 (assume that i am still spending points in morbidity and HB/HC switching places)
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···510352z0
I used that spec on the ptr and tested it out in H VH. Worked just fine aganst 3 other well-geared (t7.5) geared people. That build will work for you if you like frost. Also, for you aoe happy tanks out there (unholy DKs) I am sorry to say that blood will offer you a lot more viable tanking centric talents come 3.1. Not to mention that with bloods talents increasing blood boil damage, it is way better overall for single target and aoe threat. (My basis for this is that I saw a blood spec'd dps pushing out 8k dps on multimob pulls, sustained, and spiking at 10k) So, blood offers more aoe damage, 6% more stamina, and awesome single target threat. Also with increases to the bonus we get from armor pen (30%) talents like Blood Gorged could offer more single target threat too. Just something for you to look at. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
1 edit | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec I wasn't actually using that. I was demonstrating the way to get UB since it's now the 21 point talent.
Edit: So am I reading you right? Will frost be better despite the nerfs? | |
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Tirael
join:2009-03-18
Savannah, GA
| The nerfs to frost were for those who DW because it scaled way better than anyother DK spec on the live servers (and any other class for that matter) with buffs. For instance, on my DK in any 5 man group I could push out about 2500 dps, in a non-ideal group, single target. In a 10 man I could push out 4k easy. In a 25 man I would be pushing a whopping 6-7k dps. So the nerfs to frost were for the hyrbids. LB way nice, but once everyone 3 minutes is meh IMHO. I rarely if ever used it. So it becomes like a warrior's bezerker rage in 3.1. I won't use it but I can see it's potential use.
--
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women." | |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com
| ok heres why unholy will be the boss spec in 3.1 imo
I have 40k hp(32k unbuffed) in 25mans (not even full T7)
55% avoidance atm (45% come 3.1)
So, 40k hp, 45%+ avoidance, and 10% mitigation for 99% of the fight PLUS BS which adds 20% mitigation for a good while on single target bosses
All frost adds is 3% miss, and unbreakable armor which is worse than boneshield seeing as it doesnt have charges. With 40+k hp, 3% miss isnt to big of a deal, especially when you can add more mitigation. With HB going to a 10sec CD Blight will be a must have for those who have multiple target threat problems. With Dual spec coming out there will be the ability to have a trash/heroic spec and a boss spec. Frost/unholy will be my trash/heroic spec whereas »www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla···00100000
or something to that effect will be my boss spec. | |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec your link takes us to a blank spec | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | You have to copy the part at the bottom under "Link this build:"
The point isn't aggro is getting nerfed, the point is that mitigation is. I agree with Irefusetodie--Unholy is going to be more viable for tanking, especially on single targets. | |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com
| Also, i just wanted to throw this out there, Stoneskin should not be used once you hit t7.5 gear. Heres why:
Stoneskin= +25 def & 2% HP
Swordshattering= +4% parry
That means that the 25 defense skill from SG provides a straight 3% avoidance (1% miss, 1% dodge, 1% parry) and SS 4% (straight-up 4% parry).BUT if you're crit immune without SG that means you would have the 3% avoidance anyways, meaning SS technically adds 4% avoidance. That being said, SG is very very usefull in gearing up to the point you dont need it anymore and, if you could, you could have SG and possibly get more than 4% avoidance before diminishing return(though i doubt it)
One key concept to understand in this debate is that of diminishing returns. Diminishing returns on avoidance stats, new to WoTLK, is a method of making a certain attribute less useful the more you have of it.
For example, let’s pretend that 100 dodge rating increased your dodge chance by 1%. For your first 100 rating, you’d have a 1% dodge chance. But because of diminishing returns, the next 100 rating might only give 0.95% dodge chance. The third 100 rating might give 0.90% dodge chance, and so on. This is an oversimplification of the topic, but it gets the point across–if you’re interested in more, check out this thread at TankSpot.
»www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/4000···nce.html | |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec forgot to add, all of the runes are NOT affected by dimishing return. that means it's a straight +4% parry like blade barrier is +10% pre-3.1 | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec Agreed. SSG is generally accepted a "newbie" rune for tanks trying to get to 540 def. Once you get substantially over that (would have to be 565, or 555 with the sigil), drop it, eat the 2% loss in stamina, and go for Sword-shattering. | |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec I checked your build before I left for work and it's almost exactly what I have. I only pug heroics and still do questing/gathering and don't have artisan flying yet, so I have two points in Pale Horse.
DK tanking spec's are a no-brainer. What makes or breaks it is your gear. Def-cap is non-negotiable, HP to buffer through damage spikes, and avoidance to avoid damage completely are all important stats. | |
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