irefusetodie
@charter.com
| reply to Graytooth13
Re: [ Classes] DK best TANK spec
Imo Blizz is doing what they didnt want to, and thats making Frost the tanking spec and the other 2 dps specs. Bonesheild going to a 2min CD makes unholy not worth it besides blight, Vampiric Blood or wte is getting nerfed meaning all those straight blood tanks are useless. Frost will be the way to go with 10% damage reduction from blade barrier plus the imp frost presence or wte it is, and going into blood or unholy depending on your needs such as aggro or more mitigation.
IMHO Blizzard screwed DKs over cause we'll always be either OP as tanks or UP. Thats my $.02 anyways |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
2 edits | It seems like a straight nerf to DK tanks regardless of spec, because all the tanking abilities have either been nerfed with a 200% longer CD or taken away completely.
I don't have the bluepost link atm (at work), but I recall a Blizz post at how they wanted DKs to be caster OTs.
I'm currently specc'd unholy tanking 9/8/54, but with bone shield CD going to 2min, and the BB parry going away, it seems like it's better to de-emphasize the parry needed to keep Bone Shield up and just go frost for damage mitigation. Too bad UB is still a 21 point talent which means you can't go 51 points in frost to get Howling Blast and still pick up UB. You wouldn't try and hybrid frost/unholy anyways because you still need 5/5 in BB. You'd also want 5/5 Anticipation, 3/3 in Morbidity, 2/2 in Epidemic, 2/2 in Unholy Command, and 5/5 in Toughness.
That's 22 points already in core tanking abilities, so that does limit you. You could get the 51-point talent in each tree, though (you already have 5 blood, 5 frost, and 12 unholy), so it doesn't necessarily rule out any tree for tanking, but it gives you less flexibility than what you have now.
Edit: Not sure about Frost's future as a tanking tree because I think HB got it's CD doubled as well. So D&D, IT, Pest, HB, FS RP dump while waiting for rune CD), OB, blood tap, OB.... not sure how often you could cycle HB, so you'd constantly have to be tabbing and obliterating different targets to maintain threat. |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com
| reply to Graytooth13
apparently im a tardcake and posted a link to the armry talent thing which auto resets 
»www.wowhead.com/?talent=jbEGoc0c···cox0V00o
this is my boss spec atm, with buffs + sigil proc + blade barrier, im over 50% avoidance meaning i keep BS up a long time and when it does go down i have IBF to pop and typically by the time thats up i have BS off CD
Come 3.1 with dual spec, this will be my trash spec
»www.wowhead.com/?talent=j0EZhxxx···cg0hxckx
just focused it on massive aoe (blight and gargoyle will be switching spots so i popped one into gargoyle)
if you have any questions or just wanna chat in general about dk tanking just reply and ill get the email  |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| Can you link those specs on getbuffed.com ? I'm at work and can't see wowhead.
At the bottom of getbuffed's talent calculator they have a "link this build" url.
I'm still gearing from heroic. You can look me up... Krisnatharok on Grizzly Hills. Defcapped (542, 553 with sigil), 30k hp, working on avoidance atm. |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Oh  I was really enjoying my unholy tank. |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| General question... What is the best avoidance stat to stack? I am a JCer and can gem any 3 of the special JC gems...
The following could be useful for tanks: 3x +27 defense rating, 3x +27 strength, 3x +54 attack power, 3x +27 parry rating, 3x +27 resilience rating, 3x +27 expertise rating, 3x +27 hit rating, 3x +27 dodge rating, or 3x +41 stamina. Obviously some more useful than others.
So.. what should I be going for? |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07 | Dodge goves more avoidance per point than Parry so that's a start. |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com
| reply to Graytooth13
Ok there's been questions about tanking in 3.1 so i've looked over the ptr notes.
-Nerfs-
Death Strike- -20% healing
Blade Barrier- 5% damage reduction instead of +10% parry
Lichbourne- No more +25% miss
Vampiric Blood- CD increased to 2 mins
Unbreakable Armor- CD increased to 2 mins
Bone Shield- CD increased to 2 mins
-Buffs-
Blood Boil- Damage is increased
Frost Presence- +5% damage reduction instead of 15% magic reduction
Unbreakable Armor- Damage reduction instead of physical damage reduction
So basically, it's a huge nerf to dk tanks. Will it be harder? In all honesty, no. Other than Mark of Blood and Bone Shield, I never used CDs in 25man naxx, not even Patchwerk. Look at it this way, as an unholy tank, we have -20% damage reduction 40-60% of the fight, now we have -10% damage reduction 99% of the fight. I'll play with the specs in heroics but from the look of it, i wont be changing my spec. 30% damage reduction for 20-30% of the fight sounds good to me. |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
| I agree. I am Unholy already, and would have switched to it from Frost if I wasn't already. Just stack avoidance and strength to make up for the lost parry.
One note you forgot to mention is that Howling Blast, the core AoE aggro ability in Frost is getting its CD doubled from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
But this is historic from Blizz. HB has been all over the map--no CD, 5 sec CD, 10 sec CD; double damage from frost fever, 50% more damage, no extra damage. Blizzard needs to decide what they want to do with this talent, now more than ever it is swapping places with Hungering Cold. I can see them upping the CD because it's the de facto prima donna of the Frost tree, but it had better hit hella hard to make up for that.
I can't see Frost being used for tanking anymore. Lichbourne is no longer a tanking talent, and having Unbreakable Armor up for 1/6 of the time leaves too much of a gap to chain CDs with. The only viable build would be this... Unholy Blight (where Gargoyle is now) and Frost Strike. 5/45/21
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0500011q
I personally think all these changes won't go live. Blizz has a history of overreacting to an OP class by nerfing it, then fine-tuning. I think there are too many nerfs here to see in 3.1. I'm hoping, anyways. |
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Tirael
join:2009-03-18
Savannah, GA
| said by Krisnatharok  :I agree. I am Unholy already, and would have switched to it from Frost if I wasn't already. Just stack avoidance and strength to make up for the lost parry. One note you forgot to mention is that Howling Blast, the core AoE aggro ability in Frost is getting its CD doubled from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. But this is historic from Blizz. HB has been all over the map--no CD, 5 sec CD, 10 sec CD; double damage from frost fever, 50% more damage, no extra damage. Blizzard needs to decide what they want to do with this talent, now more than ever it is swapping places with Hungering Cold. I can see them upping the CD because it's the de facto prima donna of the Frost tree, but it had better hit hella hard to make up for that. I can't see Frost being used for tanking anymore. Lichbourne is no longer a tanking talent, and having Unbreakable Armor up for 1/6 of the time leaves too much of a gap to chain CDs with. The only viable build would be this... Unholy Blight (where Gargoyle is now) and Frost Strike. 5/45/21 » wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···0500011qI personally think all these changes won't go live. Blizz has a history of overreacting to an OP class by nerfing it, then fine-tuning. I think there are too many nerfs here to see in 3.1. I'm hoping, anyways. No...just no. I have actually played with frost on the PTR and I am here to tell you that if you tanked pre-wotlk then you can still tank as frost. If you go anyother spec, you are looking at losing 3% chance to miss from frigid dreadplate also. also the build you posted would really mess with threat generation Kris. No expertise talent???? Also as for HB. If you take Rime, when it procs the HB CD is refreshed, according to the last build I read up on. This build would be most useful in 3.1 (assume that i am still spending points in morbidity and HB/HC switching places)
»wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···510352z0
I used that spec on the ptr and tested it out in H VH. Worked just fine aganst 3 other well-geared (t7.5) geared people. That build will work for you if you like frost. Also, for you aoe happy tanks out there (unholy DKs) I am sorry to say that blood will offer you a lot more viable tanking centric talents come 3.1. Not to mention that with bloods talents increasing blood boil damage, it is way better overall for single target and aoe threat. (My basis for this is that I saw a blood spec'd dps pushing out 8k dps on multimob pulls, sustained, and spiking at 10k) So, blood offers more aoe damage, 6% more stamina, and awesome single target threat. Also with increases to the bonus we get from armor pen (30%) talents like Blood Gorged could offer more single target threat too. Just something for you to look at. |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA
1 edit | I wasn't actually using that. I was demonstrating the way to get UB since it's now the 21 point talent. 
Edit: So am I reading you right? Will frost be better despite the nerfs? |
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Tirael
join:2009-03-18
Savannah, GA
| reply to Graytooth13
The nerfs to frost were for those who DW because it scaled way better than anyother DK spec on the live servers (and any other class for that matter) with buffs. For instance, on my DK in any 5 man group I could push out about 2500 dps, in a non-ideal group, single target. In a 10 man I could push out 4k easy. In a 25 man I would be pushing a whopping 6-7k dps. So the nerfs to frost were for the hyrbids. LB way nice, but once everyone 3 minutes is meh IMHO. I rarely if ever used it. So it becomes like a warrior's bezerker rage in 3.1. I won't use it but I can see it's potential use.
--
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the women." |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com
| reply to Graytooth13
ok heres why unholy will be the boss spec in 3.1 imo
I have 40k hp(32k unbuffed) in 25mans (not even full T7)
55% avoidance atm (45% come 3.1)
So, 40k hp, 45%+ avoidance, and 10% mitigation for 99% of the fight PLUS BS which adds 20% mitigation for a good while on single target bosses
All frost adds is 3% miss, and unbreakable armor which is worse than boneshield seeing as it doesnt have charges. With 40+k hp, 3% miss isnt to big of a deal, especially when you can add more mitigation. With HB going to a 10sec CD Blight will be a must have for those who have multiple target threat problems. With Dual spec coming out there will be the ability to have a trash/heroic spec and a boss spec. Frost/unholy will be my trash/heroic spec whereas »www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla···00100000
or something to that effect will be my boss spec. |
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FrostyDK
@mecdc.org
| reply to Graytooth13
Im a frost tank and always have been. Like deathtank the only problems with aggro ive had is rogues. This is my current build »wowdata.getbuffed.com/talentplan···099551_6 |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com | your link takes us to a blank spec |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | reply to FrostyDK
You have to copy the part at the bottom under "Link this build:"
The point isn't aggro is getting nerfed, the point is that mitigation is. I agree with Irefusetodie--Unholy is going to be more viable for tanking, especially on single targets. |
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Irefusetodie
@charter.com
| reply to Graytooth13
Also, i just wanted to throw this out there, Stoneskin should not be used once you hit t7.5 gear. Heres why:
Stoneskin= +25 def & 2% HP
Swordshattering= +4% parry
That means that the 25 defense skill from SG provides a straight 3% avoidance (1% miss, 1% dodge, 1% parry) and SS 4% (straight-up 4% parry).BUT if you're crit immune without SG that means you would have the 3% avoidance anyways, meaning SS technically adds 4% avoidance. That being said, SG is very very usefull in gearing up to the point you dont need it anymore and, if you could, you could have SG and possibly get more than 4% avoidance before diminishing return(though i doubt it)
One key concept to understand in this debate is that of diminishing returns. Diminishing returns on avoidance stats, new to WoTLK, is a method of making a certain attribute less useful the more you have of it.
For example, let’s pretend that 100 dodge rating increased your dodge chance by 1%. For your first 100 rating, you’d have a 1% dodge chance. But because of diminishing returns, the next 100 rating might only give 0.95% dodge chance. The third 100 rating might give 0.90% dodge chance, and so on. This is an oversimplification of the topic, but it gets the point across–if you’re interested in more, check out this thread at TankSpot.
»www.tankspot.com/forums/f63/4000···nce.html |
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irefusetodie
@charter.com | forgot to add, all of the runes are NOT affected by dimishing return. that means it's a straight +4% parry like blade barrier is +10% pre-3.1 |
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Krisnatharok
0311 Scout
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Sterling, VA | Agreed. SSG is generally accepted a "newbie" rune for tanks trying to get to 540 def. Once you get substantially over that (would have to be 565, or 555 with the sigil), drop it, eat the 2% loss in stamina, and go for Sword-shattering. |
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Deathtank
@army.mil | reply to Graytooth13
Respeced to this build »www.wowhead.com/?talent=j no more agro probs and and still not too bad on healers. |
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