Topic 'Re: Who Accessed His WAP?' in forum 'Wireless Security' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091036 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:39:03 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:39:03 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22513583
Now how to prove they posted this, within all practical limits, impossible. You don't know at the time if their wifi connection was secure, the likelihood of logs and such almost zero, could someone have brute forced their password etc, make this a tough case. Now did he brag to anyone about how he slandered your name on this forum, your more likely to get somewhere following this approach. Access to his computer and information on it, difficult and even then expensive and with no guarantee that there will be anything useful in pleading your case and the absence of evidence would destroy your case (he might have very well deleted/wiped all logs, history, temp files, etc). Now even the best most hitech hackers on the planet make mistakes, and sometimes miss stuff when covering their tracks, but you are unlikely to get the type of resources needed to find those mistakes and time is of the essences as these 'mistakes' can be corrected and hence lost as evidence.

I realize that this is very much different then a personal attack and is a professional attack which might affect your career and professional future, but might I suggest that you consider that you case might not get a favorable ruling given the elusive nature of electronic evidence and either look for alternative evidence (certainly gather what electronic evidence you can) and/or look for other ways to reaffirm your professional relationships.

Certainly anyone who reads online discussion forums knows or should know that postings that are 'out of character' should be viewed as suspicious in terms of ownership as its a risk that everyone in that community shares.

Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22513583 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:06:51 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22507809 quote:
ah i see.

ask for the defendent's wireless security configuration to decide whether that warrants his defense.

do you have a lawyer?

You get the configuration and find out. Hey it is secure. The new argument becomes. "I secured it due to this event bringing it to my attention." You are no further ahead. Legally speaking the op has to prove he did it; and the defendant just used the pretty much game winning argument in that.

quote:
Then you should know that you should be suing for allowing the content to be posted in your name. Without the ISP and website divulging specific info on MAC addresses, you can't even prove that the IP wasn't spoofed.

Ip addresses prove nothing, mac addresses prove nothing. All of which can be faked very very easily.

quote:
No. I'm suggesting that you sue the same individual, but for allowing his network to be used for the posting.
Sort of like suing the owner of a vehicle that crashes into to you but the driver is unknown because they left the scene?????

So Im sleeping at home. Someone steals my car and crashes it into a bank and steals money. The bank can sue me? Not a chance.

quote:
In reality, I don't think it's going to be very hard to prove that the defendant posted the comment
Hard.

quote:
Given the fact that he harbored animosity towards me, it would be one hell of a coincidence if some stranger just happened to come along at 10 p.m. on a Friday night to access his WAP on the 11th floor of an office building to post something about me.

11th floor kindof doesnt make a difference; wlan goes fair distances. Also "harbouring animosity" is hardly illegal.

I assume you someone were able to obtain IP address; then got an applicable warrent from his ISP to prove it was even his network that did it. Not that you just have a hunch that it was him. On top of that... Dynamic DNS is extremely common. Similar or exact same IP is next to impossible to hold onto most of the time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22507809 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:15:53 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22498758 www.sj-r.com/breaking/x124614564···ake-page and then realize, that you can do more by acting, then coming onto a web forum and ranting about why a coworker "demoralized" you. If it is that bad, then this is probably not the first time, nor the last time that you will deal with this in the real world.

The way it works, is no matter what is stated, or who says that it was not them. If it was their Internet connection through a provider, then you should of taken care of this by serving them with a day in mediation or court. Or even easier, put on the boxing gloves and have at it.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22498758 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:31:27 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22497196
Second, your statement that I "cannot do anything about what is stated on the Internet" is incorrect. In this case, I was able to track down the person who posted the comment and I am able to hold him legally accountable. I think it important that people not take the limited anonymity afforded by the Internet as a license to engage in conduct in which they would never engage in the "real" world. Personal responsibility is a cornerstone of civilization.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22497196 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:09:03 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22496198
Personally, I would take it as a lesson learned, and unless it comes up if you run for a public office, forget about it.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22496198 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:13:34 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22494621
Moreover, why shouldn't the person who posted the comment be made to compensate me for my damages and be held accountable for his conduct? Judges don't usually get annoyed at having someone "dragged into their courtrooms" on a meritorious claim. After all, that's why the courts exist.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22494621 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:30:08 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22494222
Why don't you save a lot of the courts time by scheduling a meeting with the judges to talk with them about this statement?

You are supposedly a person of intellect and a professional You should be able to talk to the judges that you are dealing with and explain the situation to them. They would think more of you for doing it that way then dragging this matter into their courtroom....

MnR
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No one is listening until you make a mistake!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22494222 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 07:01:48 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22361563 said by howrman:

I have filed suit against a person who I believe posted defamatory comments on a web site. Subpoenas to the web site and ISP confirm that the comments came from the defendant's IP address. However, the defendant asserts that an unknown person gained access to his unsecured wireless connection and posted the statements.
The bolded underlined section explains it all.
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22361563 Fri, 08 May 2009 21:44:00 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22346830
you don't have
1) proof
2) any real motives

no judge in his right mind will rule in your favour, this is just a waste of both of your time... just get over it and move on like most of us do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22346830 Wed, 06 May 2009 06:45:22 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22246343 said by howrman:

Sorry if I wasn't clear before as to the nature of the conduct that gave rise to the suit. The defendant posted a comment under my name that was critical of judges before whom I practice. Thus, he wanted those judges to believe that I was publically expressing unprofessional comments about them.

If it was merely a matter of a person expressing opinions about me, I couldn't and wouldn't sue. Opinions are protected free speech. As such, they are not actionable. The problem here is that the defendant fraudulently represented that he was me and he falsely attributed damaging statements to me.

What would you do under these circumstances to seek redress?
If the judges know you and the other person then you should be fine. If a judge cannot tell you are telling the truth that you did not post it well something is wrong.
Basically saying if you have strong character and such the judges will ignore the posted garbage.
I mean clients and others are not always happy people with outcomes so rude comments or other type of comments are probably not uncommon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22246343 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:06:15 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22208062
1. The hard drive has been low-level formatted or fully formatted using secure data wiping.

OR

2. The owner is as paranoid as I am and has installed electro-magnetic loops around every doorway that can be activated at the flip of a switch, thus destroying any drive or magnetic media that passes through them.

Sorry, must go...the black helicopters are back! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22208062 Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:44:12 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22187813
If his router is open than you could hire a hacker to find that info before you go to the courts. But then you will be doing the same things he has done, in a round about way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22187813 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:57:56 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22187607 said by howrman:

What would you do under these circumstances to seek redress?
A couple of busted kneecaps? :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22187607 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 15:07:10 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22171055
However, as there is a proven history of conflict here, and it is known that at the very least, the fraudulent emails originated from his ISP address, I would rather suspect that it is more incumbent on the defendant to prove that they did not originate from him, yes?

After all, this is a civil suit, not a criminal trial.
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Deeds, not words]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22171055 Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:39:39 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22166228 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22166228 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:27:40 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22166193
If it was merely a matter of a person expressing opinions about me, I couldn't and wouldn't sue. Opinions are protected free speech. As such, they are not actionable. The problem here is that the defendant fraudulently represented that he was me and he falsely attributed damaging statements to me.

What would you do under these circumstances to seek redress?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22166193 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 16:20:58 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22165148 said by howrman:

I'm not aware of any legal basis for imposing liability on the owner of an unsecured WAP for things that are posted through that connection. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the Decency Act protects them. That's why your ISP isn't responsible for things that you post using its connection.

In reality, I don't think it's going to be very hard to prove that the defendant posted the comment. Given the fact that he harbored animosity towards me, it would be one hell of a coincidence if some stranger just happened to come along at 10 p.m. on a Friday night to access his WAP on the 11th floor of an office building to post something about me.
I would say something. Then again you now have a track record of sueing.
If it is just a personal comment right or wrong who cares? Get over it grow some thicker skin. If someone say dumps all your private client files on the web that is different.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22165148 Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:18:24 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22135456
You might want to check out some Black Hat sessions by Jennifer Granick (I think she works for the Electronic Frontier Foundation now) and she gets right into it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22135456 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:43:19 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134946
In reality, I don't think it's going to be very hard to prove that the defendant posted the comment. Given the fact that he harbored animosity towards me, it would be one hell of a coincidence if some stranger just happened to come along at 10 p.m. on a Friday night to access his WAP on the 11th floor of an office building to post something about me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134946 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 20:00:45 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134138 Sort of like suing the owner of a vehicle that crashes into to you but the driver is unknown because they left the scene????? Unless you can prove that this person was the one that typed the posted material. FAT CHANCE.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134138 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:33:58 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134020 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22134020 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:11:59 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22133872 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22133872 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:49:34 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091678 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091678 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:16:07 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091670
ask for the defendent's wireless security configuration to decide whether that warrants his defense.

do you have a lawyer?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091670 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:15:15 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091652
Unless you have neighbors of this individual who has any knowledge about this network or was permitted access to it (in which case they might know about the security config of the network), then you're not going to have any evidence which may be practically admissible in court.

The only other third-party supplier of evidence is the ISP which the other user connects to, but again this assumes that they 1) were logging the traffic you want (presumably unencrypted) and 2) still doesn't prove the supposed insecure configuration of that person's AP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091652 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:13:01 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091647
Since the defendant and I have a history of conflicts, it's hard to believe that some random stranger just happened to come along and use the defendant's connection to post a comment using my name. Nevertheless, I was hoping to find firm proof that the defendant's wireless connection was not accessed by a third party. Can you think of anything other than the router and WAP logs that might do so?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091647 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:12:14 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091631 I've already asked for the defendant's router and WAP logs.The chances are that those logs are not available. Most routers log to a memory buffer, and delete older log records to make space for new ones. And rebooting the router typically erases all logs.

By way of example, there is nothing older than 30 minutes in my router log at present, and what it logs would not be useful in determining whether there was an outside on the network.
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AT&T dsl; Westell 327w modem/router; openSuSE 11.0; firefox 3.0.7]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091631 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:10:28 EDT Re: Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091312
it will be hard to prove whether that person's wifi is secure or insecure. what if the logs are turned off? then you can't prove anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091312 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 19:14:11 EDT Who Accessed His WAP? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091036
Any suggestions as to what documents I should obtain to refute this contention? Any way I can establish that the defendant's wireless connection was not unsecured? I've already asked for the defendant's router and WAP logs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Who-Accessed-His-WAP-22091036 Wed, 18 Mar 2009 18:23:18 EDT