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Stewy6
Premium Member
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON

Stewy6

Premium Member

Does anyone here have a Hydro Smart Meter ?

If you do, have you found that your bill is generally lower, higher or the same ?

If you have or when you will have, are you more inclined to "modify" your hydro use because of it ?

dirtyjeffer0
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

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no one will have "lower bills".

HiVolt
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join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

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I thought the Smart Meters peak hour rates are not implemented yet?

I noticed one on my house last year.

MarkAW
Barry White
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join:2001-08-27
Canada

2 edits

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I've had a Hydro Smart Meter now for almost a year and haven't notice any change in my bill or usage.

Since December 15 2008 (007306kWh) and February 13 2009 (009388kWh) a difference of 002082kWh and right now my meter is sitting at 10329kWh used in total since last summer.

Edit: and this is with 3 computers on all the time, central air on in the summer Fridge, Stove, 3 TV's with 3 receivers,washer and dryer, power tools being used on and off through out the year.

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

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Nobody's bills will really go down.If a household has a stay at home mom,or dad telecommutes etc etc then the bills will go up.If you work nights and your home all day your bill will probably go up.Smart meters are more of an increase in rates than anything else.

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

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i don't think anyone will use less with a smart meter...or at least, it shouldn't take a smart meter to get people to conserve energy...all it will do is give the utility company the capability of charging a variable rate depending on the time of day...since most of us are working during the day, it isn't going to change much...although, for those who do work from home, or have someone who stays at home during the day (for example, the wife who is looking after the kids, doing laundry, etc), it is going to penalize them and either charge them more money, or force them to change their usage habits.

either way, it's a lose lose situation, unless you are the power company.

FusionGuy
join:2001-12-06

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said by HiVolt:

I thought the Smart Meters peak hour rates are not implemented yet?

I noticed one on my house last year.
That's correct. I had one installed last year but they don't go into effect until next year I believe. They still need to install those "collectors" on the poles.

dirtyjeffer0
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join:2002-02-21
London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

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i wonder how long it will take someone to "hack" their meter.

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON

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They installed one here a year or two ago. My understanding is that they haven't implemented the new billing system yet.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

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I've managed to get the hydro bill down every year past three years. Smart Meter probably wouldn't like me.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

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Bills will only go up, they'll be able to bill directly based on the kw/h rate at the time rather then the current flat rate which people are paying now. There will be gnashing of teeth and people will roll over and accept it unless things get much worse then they are now.

Krispy1
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join:2001-12-11
the stix

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I just learned this week that I have a smart meter after I called Hydro to understand why my estimate was massive - 131kWh per day versus my historical 12kWh per day (luckily I have bills going back years). When I spoke to the rep she immediately said "Hmm, something is strange, there's very erratic readings and estimates since we installed your new smart meter in November" -- she ended up catching herself and going back to the script but not before a hint of 'this isn't an unheard of things with smart meters' got out. So I've had to submit a manual reading and they'll reissue a new bill so I'll have to wait to see what happens next but thus far my bills have all been estimates and they've all been higher then normal to insanely crazy high so not sure if it's the smart meter or their inability to properly estimate from old to new system but either way I'm currently getting dinged because of my new smart meter.

Stewy6
Premium Member
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON

Stewy6

Premium Member

interesting, it appears that the meter's are not that smart after all.

Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
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join:2005-01-20

Thane_Bitter

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No but the new billing system sure is.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
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Stewy you beat me to it
I've had a smart meter for almost 2+yrs now, but the Time of Day billing has not been implemented.

I got a "brocuhure" in the mail the other day and have been messing with Hydro's Time of use (TOU) site.

In the last billing period (all other charges aside) under the flat rate plan I paid $34.12 but under the TOU it would have been $37.03.

That said, the previous billing period was the reverse 31.70 paid 30.90 TOU. So more long term data is required.

Frankly I find this incredibly stupid!

First it's not about shifting habits!

What you going to tell the kids not to turn on their computers till 10pm? Or perhaps dinner will be postponed to 10pm? (I have a Gas Stove, so that doesn't really apply to me).

They go on about more energy efficient appliances. OK Dalton, you going to buy them for me? How long before I get my money back? (Payback period). Will the "appliance" wear about before then?

It's not a matter of conserving, I turn my lights off, etc.. the only things at is "On" all the time is the computer , Fridge, freezer(and in the Winter) Furnace.

I looked at Solar, but the payback (savings and potential sales to the grid) is far too long, those panels would have "worn out" long before I made(saved) any money on the deal.

Stewy6
Premium Member
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON

Stewy6

Premium Member

said by elwoodblues:

First it's not about shifting habits!
But I've been racking my brain trying to see the bigger picture and I'd like to see the bigger data.

One of my concerns is that eventually, the poorer you are the more you'll get dinged. For example, if you are a poor single parent with two kids, you end up using more at home appliances during peek times and staying at home more than a wealthier single mother with two kids who may use daycare more and have more outside the home type of entertainment.

I've been trying to locate data on TOU billing per household income but I can't find any.

What I'd like to see is the percentage billing increase from hydro use from household income to compare and see if the poorer you are the more you will eventually pay as compared to the wealthier.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

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You'll never see that, while you find out the median income for households at Postal Code XXX, due to "privacy" concerns, you'll never find out how much electricity they use.

The wealthier will pay more, simply due to the larger homes they have, larger fridges, bigger stoves etc...

Toastertech
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join:2003-01-05
Canada

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Our bills will in all likely hood be going up as it was announced recently on the radio that our rates are being raised by 2.2% to pay for the smart meters.

Krispy1
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join:2001-12-11
the stix

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Yup rates are going up...again.

In my opinion these smart meters have less to do with the environment and more to do with the profit margin that increases when you don't need to roll a truck to disconnect someone and instead just need to remotely disable -- of course the environment angle makes it's good PR and a reasonable excuse to up our bills to pay for it.

Stewy6
Premium Member
join:2007-12-12
Kitchener, ON

1 recommendation

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said by elwoodblues:

The wealthier will pay more, simply due to the larger homes they have, larger fridges, bigger stoves etc...
I agree that the wealthier will pay more in total but percentage wise, are the poor going to end up paying more of an increase than the wealthier just because they now have a smart meter ?

If you didn't have the smart meter, whether you would be rich or poor you would still pay the same rate times the kWh of usage.

In other words, in the long term simply by switching to a smart meter and if you're poor you may end up paying 6% more as compared to 4% for the wealthier, for the same amount of hydro use.

I'm sure that the Government or Hydro must have these numbers somewhere. If that is indeed the case then I'm getting the feeling that eventually the TOU pricing may be linked to your household income.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Oh yeah I forgot, that somebody(oh wait thats me, the ratepayer) has to pay for something I didn't want in the first place.

I wonder if Dalton will ever unleash Hydro again and allow the rates to float? That will destroy this province.
elwoodblues

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I see where you are going with this...

I don't think it's a matter of rich or poor, but your lifestyle, if you elect to be a "stay at home mom" (mine was till the last kid was in school F/T and I was 18 by then)you get penalized for making them "a home cooked meal at lunch" or for spending a few hours before everyone gets home making dinner.

Frankly it's BS and I'm surprised that Ontarians are buying it. (oh wait it's supposed to be "Green").

When they get their first TOU bill (if they haven't taken the time to look like I did), they'll be outraged then.

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

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none of these ponzi schemes have anything to do with the environment...its all about increasing your bill, without having to ask for price increases.

think about it, why would the hydro company spend hundreds of millions of dollars to "reduce" your bill (or even keep it the same)...there is nothing wrong with the "old school" meters we have now, they work fine...in fact, from seeing a few posts in here, the old ones probably work much better...if the hydro company would like to save some money, why not allow customers to enter their meter readings on their own, and the hydro company could send a person out on an annual basis (or during connections and disconnection orders) to verify and adjust any discrepancies...that would save them millions in the costs associated with having hundreds of humans walking around the neighbourhood entering them all manually...they could even offer a credit, rebate, or something else in exchange for it (perhaps a rate guarantee or something).

Hydraglass
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join:2002-05-08

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I don't think a "TOU" meter is necessarily supposed to be green - it's just supposed to represent electricity as it costs at the time you use it. Electricity is more in demand and taxes the system more and is more expensive because of the need to kick in "supplemental sources" at certain times of the day -- typically the highest power use in Canada in the entire year is mid-day in the summer when all of the air conditioners are chugging along at full blast. Daytime use in general is a higher cost and higher demand as business use generally always outstrips "home use" at any time of day or night.

The smart meters just move what the electrical companies already deal with down the line to the user. The electrical distributors have to pay more for electricity during the day during peak times, and they pay less during off-peak time. Now end users will just do the same thing.

There's no proof it'll do anything to help even out the peak and off-peak usage. However - if everyone knows "9am to 6pm electricity = expensive" and "after 9pm electricity is cheap" it might move even just a few percent of the usage around and help smooth out the usage graph a little... that is what the electric companies REALLY want here - the less they have to buy from alternative sources at peak times, the less their general power cost is.

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

dirtyjeffer0

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instead of wasting all that money on smart meters, they should be investing in more power generation (wind power, nukes, etc)...the more power we have, the more we can sell excess to the Americans.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

Shh DJ! You're making sense again, after all we'd have to tell those nimbyists to shove off as well. ;P But I agree, building new plants would be a much wiser course of action.

Krispy1
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join:2001-12-11
the stix

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said by dirtyjeffer0:

why not allow customers to enter their meter readings on their own, and the hydro company could send a person out on an annual basis (or during connections and disconnection orders) to verify and adjust any discrepancies...that would save them millions in the costs associated with having hundreds of humans walking around the neighbourhood entering them all manually...they could even offer a credit, rebate, or something else in exchange for it (perhaps a rate guarantee or something).
Actually I just found out they do (well at least HydroOne) and given my recent experience and lack of faith in their estimates I've been provided an exact set of dates to submit readings for the rest of the year. While you can submit readings online they suggested I call them in "just to be safe" so maybe contact your hydro company and see if they have something similar. Also note that for at least 2 years now I only get 2-3 meter readings per year anyway so seems like they've already implemented the second part of the plan!
said by Hydraglass:

I don't think a "TOU" meter is necessarily supposed to be green - it's just supposed to represent electricity as it costs at the time you use it. Electricity is more in demand and taxes the system more and is more expensive because of the need to kick in "supplemental sources" at certain times of the day -- typically the highest power use in Canada in the entire year is mid-day in the summer when all of the air conditioners are chugging along at full blast.
Correct however here's my issue with this....is the peak usage during summer months a brand new phenomena or are the hydro companies just unaware they can hire really smart people that will help them predict and adjust for this? I can't remember the exact details and am too lazy to Google but a year or more ago the Ontario govt/energy company decided to take a major power supplier (maybe one of the reactors) offline for scheduled maintenance during the summer peak hour which, SURPRISE!, caused them to have to buy power elsewhere at a more expensive rate...why does that stupidity and/or lack of planning come back to us in the form of higher costs?

andyb
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join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

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"They go on about more energy efficient appliances. OK Dalton, you going to buy them for me? How long before I get my money back? (Payback period). Will the "appliance" wear about before then?"

I bought all new appliances a few years back and changed all bulbs to cfl.I did it so I could save money on hydro and it did.About $40 a month(summer time then).Less than six months later they raised the rates and wiped out any saving I had made and then some.Still pissed off to this day

bluebaron2
Stuff Happens
Mod
join:2001-02-01
North of 44

bluebaron2

Mod

Bad math/logic andyb See Profile.
You were saving Kw usage no matter what the rate is. If you hadn't switched to more efficient appliances your bill would have been even higher when the rates went up. You saved money before the rate increase and you are still saving money after the rate increase.

uber69er
join:2009-03-19
North of You

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Don't municipalities get rated by their peak capacity? This shift to prevent spikes could lower rates. For the homeowner with due diligence this might be the only way one has control over cost. I have tenants with electric baseboard heat and work for minimum wage. These are the people I worry about.