| Re: Advanced Fiber Network claim Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers. |
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 JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:5
 ·Optimum Online
| said by Darth Fiber:Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers. Excuse me??
Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home....
Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them??
I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other...
And to add the FINAL nail in the coffin, which company offering high speed internet/TV/Phone, OWNS a huge amount of the internet backbone that all data travels on????
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 BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | reply to Darth Fiber
Of course it means their network isn't as advanced, at least in terms of capacity. The shared topology of current local cable infrastructure doesn't permit the to-the-home capacity the VZ FTTH offers. Cable is forced to share bandwidth with hundreds of homes and even with SDV, ditching analog and offering that saved bandwidth to additional HSI channels with channel bonding they are barely on par with VZ's current retail video and HSI offerings. And when DOCSIS 3 becomes the norm, VZ need only respond by changing the throughput caps on their tiers. They don't have to change anything. They could offer 100Mb service tomorrow if they wanted to and there was a market for it. MSOs simply can't. Many are struggling right now with 10-20Mb services resorting to draconian traffic shaping and caps to keep services operating smoothly. |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| reply to JRW2
said by JRW2:Excuse me?? Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home.... Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them?? That has everything to do with network design, and very little to do with the underlying transport technology. The MSOs could scale down to 16-32 homes per HFC node and easily go head-to-head with FiOS, if they had reasonable justification to make the investment.
Case in point: into the home from the ONT, even FiOS is copper via either MoCA or Cat5. The transmission medium does not matter -- the design and scaling of the network do.
said by JRW2:I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other... On digital transmissions it's not going to make a huge difference. Few are foolish enough to suggest that 1s and 0s are "sharper" on fiber than copper.
said by JRW2:And to add the FINAL nail in the coffin, which company offering high speed internet/TV/Phone, OWNS a huge amount of the internet backbone that all data travels on???? Verizon Business / UUNet / MCI / Alter.net has a vast network, but it doesn't carry as much traffic as you are implying. With the heavy reliance on providers like Level(3), Global Crossing, and Cogent, Verizon doesn't even rank in the top 5 for traffic volume.
Of course, the backbone operations group is also completely different from the broadband services group. Different balance sheets, different staff, different equipment standards, different call centers, different customer base. The only thing they really share in common is the ticker symbol. |
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BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Actually PQ is different on copper or fiber but it goes back to your point of scability. Digital doesn't having any meaning in terms of quality because PQ is subject to compression. I can compress a digital feed so much that it is unwatchable. And when an MSO is trying to 'cram' channels into their limited bandwidth, they'll compress the snot out of it and PQ goes to hell. FTTH, theoretically, having higher capacity means the provider doesn't have to compress the snot out of it to add channels to a line up. |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | reply to JRW2
said by JRW2:said by Darth Fiber:Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers. Excuse me?? Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home.... Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them?? I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other. My guess is with true fibre to the home since with all the bandwidth on fibre, the compression rates can be lower.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
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| reply to Bit
Just taking Fios into account neglects a good portion of what Cablevision's fiber network provides. If you read the news from yesterday, Verizon is trying to sell some of their backbone capacity for companies such as cell phone providers. Cablevision's fiber network carries Lightpath traffic, municipal traffic, and a vast array of other information. CV is also providing wifi access to Optimum subscribers throughout their footprint, as well as helping Comcast to provide similar service in New Jersey.
Most of this information can be easily found on this site. Do some research on other industry sites, and you will find that it IS true that Cablevision has probably the most advanced fiber network in the United States, Verizon included. |
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 Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | reply to espaeth
Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons:
1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster.
2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome.
3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations.
..and if you want compatibility, you can split your video, data, and phone from the feed and put them in their places (Coax, RJ45, and RJ11).
What's the benefit of Coax to the home?
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espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
1 edit | said by Simba7:Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons: I'm not going to dispute that fiber often has advantages over copper on the provider side. What I'm saying is that you, as a customer, sign up for a service based on the features it provides -- be it Internet access speed, number of TV channels, or telephone features. The factors that influence each of those options is only loosely related to the underlying transport medium.
said by Simba7:1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster. The frequency breakdown in FiOS today is using mechanical means (prisms), which means home visits are required and complete ONT swapouts required to tap into additional capacity. So yeah, you can upgrade, but be prepared for a massive bill of materials to accomplish it.
said by Simba7:2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome. With ZR optics you can go 80km without amplification, but keep in mind that fiber span needs to be absolutely clean. Any bulkhead connections at fiber junction boxes or splice points from recovering cable cuts will substantially reduce that distance. Still, as an end user buying a service, why the heck do I care what the distance benefits are for fiber? I only care if I can get the service or I can't.
said by Simba7:3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations. True, with fiber you're not going to have to deal with EMI/RFI, transient voltages, or grounding issues. You still have to deal with issues of patch panel termination faults, failed connectors that allow the fiber to spin and change the connection characteristics, and any events that cause the glass to bend beyond specs or break.
Bad events can still occur with fiber: just last month the local DiecTV rebroadcast facility lost 50% of it's capacity when water flooded into a fiber conduit that was cut open when new road signs were placed by the state. After an unusually warm February day, which allowed the snow to melt and flood the conduit, there was an extreme cold snap that followed that resulted in the water freezing in the conduit and snapping the fiber. Since the conduit was also frozen solid, that prevented new fiber from being blown through the conduit as well.
said by Simba7:What's the benefit of Coax to the home? This is easy:
•Large base of infrastructure already installed
•Able to be spliced very cost effectively (no need for fusion splice gear like with fiber) in the event of a break
•Able to be split into multiple feeds using inexpensive splitters
•Less expensive amplification hardware for copper |
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| reply to Simba7
said by Simba7:Fiber *IS* better than Copper. Here is the reasons: 1. More bandwidth. Technically, Fiber can handle 1+Tbps connections. Add multiple wavelengths and it'll go even faster. 2. Longer distances. I think 25 miles without a repeater is freakin' awesome. 3. Reliability. No more crappy coax connections and no ugly signal fluctuations. ..and if you want compatibility, you can split your video, data, and phone from the feed and put them in their places (Coax, RJ45, and RJ11). What's the benefit of Coax to the home? 1TBps to your home? Not today, not in 5 years. Probably not even in 10 years. Keep dreaming.
Longer distances, I agree. That is why cable companies run fiber to local nodes and why they are making the nodes smaller now.
Reliability. I agree with that, but to be honest the cable on the poles (hardline) is tough as nails and will last for decades. Besides, with HFC the copper portion of the cable plant is not that big anymore.
Definitely fiber is better. But HFC matches what FiOS is offering today. When they offer something more, cable can step up its game for a lot less cost than FiOS, by running fiber to the home since the longest part of their network is fiber. |
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2 edits | reply to dvd536
said by dvd536:said by JRW2:said by Darth Fiber:Just because Cablevision doesn't run fiber directly to the home does not mean that they don't have a more advanced network than other companies. The network is more than just television and internet for residential customers. Excuse me?? Hybrid fiber network, or fiber to the home.... Hmmmm, I wonder which ACTUALLY delivers faster speeds, and which can consistently deliver them?? I would also add, which has a better PQ than the other. My guess is with true fibre to the home since with all the bandwidth on fibre, the compression rates can be lower. They can do that with HFC if they drop the analog, expand to 1GHz and/or use SDV. Much of what cable isn't doing is not because they can't do it, it's because they don't want to do it because of cost and/or pissing off analog subscribers and the FCC.
Remember that FiOS TV is just an 860MHz HFC system with the node (ONT) in your house. In fact the internet portion is carried over coax via MoCA from 860MHz - 1GHz.
If cable goes to 1GHz they can offer what FiOS is offering today without (relatively) much of an investment. Of course when you mention that to Fiber fanboys they attempt beat you down because "fiber is just better."
By the way "the compression can be lower" yes that is true. FiOS puts only 2 HD channels per QAM. Cable companies put 3 because most of their space is occupied by analog video. When the analog gets decommissioned there will be breathing room for the HD channels and they can put it back to 2 per QAM. Additionally they can go to MPEG4 and use less bandwidth per channel, like DIrecTV (and Dish) is doing. |
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| 'Remember that FiOS TV is just an 860MHz HFC system with the node (ONT) in your house. In fact the internet portion is carried over coax via MoCA from 860MHz - 1GHz.'
No. |
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Reviews:
 ·Frontier Communi..
| reply to Darth Fiber
I completely agree with your first paragraph. But, I fail to see how showing what customers each company provides service to proves anything about the quality of the network.
If I were to build a network that could pass 100Tbps to all customers, wouldn't that make me the most advanced fiber network. If I provided service to 100 million customers with 1Mbps that does not make an advanced network. In that case, I would have the largest network. But, all of us here would agree it was not "advanced". |
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| reply to Darth Fiber
Cablevision is not a Tier-1 provider and does not ever come close to offering Sonet rings that encircle whole continents like the ones Verizon has. Verizon has probably one of, if not the most diverse networks in the word. |
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| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780:'Remember that FiOS TV is just an 860MHz HFC system with the node (ONT) in your house. In fact the internet portion is carried over coax via MoCA from 860MHz - 1GHz.' No. I'm sorry you don't like the truth but that's the way it is. Yes, they can give you ethernet from the ONT but they don't do that because the actiontec router is used for VOD and multi room DVR. |
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| Still, no.
Unless FiOS customers are liars.
»blogs.dialogic.com/2005/07/more_···_in.html |
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1 edit | That was in 2005. My friend who had FiOS installed in 2008 (last year) got an actiontec router which was fed with coax from the ONT. That is how FiOS can offer the multi room DVR and on demand. It is an integrated solution using MoCA.
If you want ethernet from the ONT you can have it if you ask for it but you lose the multi room DVR or on demand functions. For most installs out there MoCA over coax works just fine. |
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1 edit | reply to gvalinoti
said by gvalinoti :
Cablevision is not a Tier-1 provider and does not ever come close to offering Sonet rings that encircle whole continents like the ones Verizon has. Verizon has probably one of, if not the most diverse networks in the word.
Please. SONET rings are not FiOS just like 18 wheelers are not commuter vehicles. |
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| reply to fifty nine
MoCA is done as a way to save from running Cat5. They just use the existing coax for a linked network.
MoCA is DOCSIS like DSL is 10BASE-T. |
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