Topic 'Re: Time to Downgrade?' in forum 'AT&T Northeast' - dslreports.com

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:36:10 EDT

StillLearn posted : Try these two commands. Just post the summaries-- not the whole thing.

ping -c 500 64.252.11.254
ping -c 500 69.59.32.7

They should take less than 10 minutes each. The longer times should give some info.

I don't really see a problem shown by your traceroutes. The larger numbers in your hop 12 on two of your traces are not indicative of a problem since you make it on to catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7) with what seems like reasonable delays.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:49:17 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by wrand:

From the ping/traceroute results I thought the problem was mainly with one of AT&T's stations (consistently got some horrible max pause results there) but I don't have a lot of experience analyzing those kinds of results.

Looking at your subsequent trace routes, your problem still lies beyond AT&T Internet Services (ATTIS) transit. It lies with AT&T Worldnet Services (ATTW) transit. ATTW is a competitor with the likes of Level 3, Savvis, and NTT (Qwest and Verizon also operate Tier 1 transit networks, which are managed apart from their local, DSL transit networks).

I am not sure the AT&T wonks who post here have any more pull with ATTW than they have with Level 3. But your latency is showing up in the Tier 1 backbone hops, not in the local transit hops.

Addendum: I see StillLearn caught something I missed. Latency to the end looks okay. The problem with using trace route to troubleshoot problems is that the intermediary routers may not be the problem. If there was a problem introduced by the ATTW routers, it would propagate to the end. It does not, so I have to concur that there is no problem in your trace routes.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:03:32 EDT

wrand posted : I ran a couple things if that might help. Apple Network tool's trace route and the VOIP speed test:


Traceroute has started ...
 
traceroute to 208.65.8.6 (208.65.8.6), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  16.075 ms  0.254 ms  14.631 ms
 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  1.401 ms  1.239 ms  0.948 ms
 3  adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254)  10.455 ms  8.349 ms  12.231 ms
 4  dist1-vlan50.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.194)  9.418 ms  10.432 ms  8.685 ms
 5  bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147)  16.672 ms  18.951 ms  10.686 ms
 6  ex2-p4-1.eqabva.sbcglobal.net (151.164.171.74)  19.692 ms  37.129 ms  20.007 ms
 7  gar7.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.79.81)  23.537 ms  23.062 ms  20.510 ms
 8  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.134.142)  65.493 ms  64.160 ms  64.791 ms
 9  cr1.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.1.173)  65.986 ms  65.276 ms  65.100 ms
10  cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.5.141)  65.869 ms  65.148 ms  65.435 ms
11  cr2.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.122.30.77)  65.861 ms  65.313 ms  65.458 ms
12  gar1.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.123.153.85)  255.067 ms  206.386 ms  192.218 ms
13  12.88.123.186 (12.88.123.186)  68.628 ms  68.396 ms  68.402 ms
14  catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7)  71.725 ms  68.405 ms  68.734 ms
15  * * *
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  * * *
 
Traceroute has started ...
 
traceroute to 208.65.8.6 (208.65.8.6), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  1.872 ms  0.431 ms  0.239 ms
 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  21.127 ms  1.134 ms  0.879 ms
 3  adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254)  17.450 ms  20.522 ms  41.592 ms
 4  dist1-vlan50.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.194)  26.317 ms  9.652 ms  8.816 ms
 5  bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147)  10.664 ms  12.286 ms  9.398 ms
 6  ex2-p4-1.eqabva.sbcglobal.net (151.164.171.74)  113.613 ms  207.062 ms  203.793 ms
 7  gar7.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.79.81)  21.158 ms  21.430 ms  22.176 ms
 8  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.134.142)  65.620 ms  65.114 ms  65.493 ms
 9  cr1.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.1.173)  65.532 ms  65.157 ms  64.683 ms
10  cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.5.141)  65.499 ms  65.612 ms  66.155 ms
11  cr2.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.122.30.77)  66.038 ms  65.296 ms  65.797 ms
12  gar1.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.123.153.85)  65.309 ms  64.392 ms  64.860 ms
13  12.88.123.186 (12.88.123.186)  68.931 ms  67.999 ms  68.656 ms
14  catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7)  70.244 ms  68.505 ms  68.571 ms
 
Traceroute has started ...
 
traceroute to 208.65.8.6 (208.65.8.6), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  1.271 ms  0.321 ms  0.235 ms
 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  1.077 ms  1.146 ms  0.879 ms
 3  adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254)  22.352 ms  21.585 ms  8.343 ms
 4  dist1-vlan50.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.194)  13.086 ms  22.291 ms  22.659 ms
 5  bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147)  21.750 ms  51.198 ms  10.208 ms
 6  ex2-p4-1.eqabva.sbcglobal.net (151.164.171.74)  20.260 ms  19.872 ms  19.736 ms
 7  gar7.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.79.81)  20.913 ms  20.540 ms  21.524 ms
 8  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.134.142)  65.718 ms  65.759 ms  65.091 ms
 9  cr1.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.1.173)  64.823 ms  65.264 ms  116.720 ms
10  cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.5.141)  65.655 ms  65.591 ms  65.664 ms
11  cr2.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.122.30.77)  65.114 ms  65.779 ms  64.954 ms
12  gar1.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.123.153.85)  128.735 ms  198.372 ms  195.945 ms
13  12.88.123.186 (12.88.123.186)  68.490 ms  68.395 ms  68.982 ms
14  catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7)  68.573 ms  68.330 ms  68.702 ms
15  *
 
Traceroute has started ...
 
traceroute to 208.65.8.6 (208.65.8.6), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  1.631 ms  0.450 ms  0.226 ms
 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  1.048 ms  0.953 ms  0.875 ms
 3  adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254)  32.927 ms  25.672 ms  8.857 ms
 4  dist1-vlan50.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.194)  15.274 ms  21.078 ms  23.680 ms
 5  bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147)  8.515 ms  21.393 ms  42.844 ms
 6  ex2-p4-1.eqabva.sbcglobal.net (151.164.171.74)  20.691 ms  23.518 ms  19.505 ms
 7  gar7.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.79.81)  194.142 ms  163.722 ms  212.082 ms
 8  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.134.142)  67.131 ms  66.186 ms  64.959 ms
 9  cr1.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.1.173)  65.071 ms  65.953 ms  65.932 ms
10  cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.5.141)  65.422 ms  65.454 ms  65.393 ms
11  cr2.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.122.30.77)  70.219 ms  67.781 ms  65.257 ms
12  gar1.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.123.153.85)  66.210 ms  64.863 ms  65.604 ms
13  12.88.123.186 (12.88.123.186)  68.096 ms  68.199 ms  68.652 ms
14  catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7)  68.285 ms  68.626 ms  69.467 ms
 
Traceroute has started ...
 
traceroute to 208.65.8.6 (208.65.8.6), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  14.142 ms  0.402 ms  0.229 ms
 2  192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1)  1.074 ms  0.974 ms  11.288 ms
 3  adsl-64-252-11-254.adsl.snet.net (64.252.11.254)  21.861 ms  35.263 ms  15.087 ms
 4  dist1-vlan50.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (66.159.184.194)  42.410 ms  13.795 ms  12.618 ms
 5  bb1-10g2-0.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net (151.164.92.147)  52.503 ms  90.450 ms  108.052 ms
 6  ex2-p4-1.eqabva.sbcglobal.net (151.164.171.74)  28.061 ms  22.224 ms  19.491 ms
 7  gar7.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.79.81)  20.906 ms  21.537 ms  20.457 ms
 8  cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.134.142)  65.579 ms  65.347 ms  65.128 ms
 9  cr1.attga.ip.att.net (12.122.1.173)  65.319 ms  65.455 ms  65.565 ms
10  cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net (12.122.5.141)  67.106 ms  65.082 ms  66.568 ms
11  cr2.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.122.30.77)  65.589 ms  65.365 ms  65.100 ms
12  gar1.nwrla.ip.att.net (12.123.153.85)  197.008 ms  184.264 ms  216.294 ms
13  12.88.123.186 (12.88.123.186)  68.542 ms  67.848 ms  68.009 ms
14  catv.kaplantel.net (69.59.32.7)  72.383 ms  72.484 ms  68.348 ms
15  *

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:09:56 EDT

wrand posted :

said by NormanS:

If your latency on the ATTIS transit network is good, but tanks on the peer network, there isn't much AT&T will be able to do, short of changing peers. And ISPs, such as AT&T, are primarily interested in reasonable cost for bulk transit. Latency on the peer network is a low priority.

From the ping/traceroute results I thought the problem was mainly with one of AT&T's stations (consistently got some horrible max pause results there) but I don't have a lot of experience analyzing those kinds of results.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:15:18 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by wrand:

Thanks, StillLearn. I've gone through a wide variety of tests trying to figure this out. Speed isn't the problem, latency is. Everything looks good from our computer up to the local substation which makes this really baffling.

If your latency on the ATTIS transit network is good, but tanks on the peer network, there isn't much AT&T will be able to do, short of changing peers. And ISPs, such as AT&T, are primarily interested in reasonable cost for bulk transit. Latency on the peer network is a low priority.

FWIW, if your alternative to 'at&t Yahoo! HSI' is Comcast, you need to check the Comcast forums, here, to see if they aren't also having transit latency issues. Some Comcast markets have latency issues; primarily because Comcast does not seem as well connected as AT&T. At least, AT&T West seems well connected. Comcast routing, in some markets, is horrible.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:45:22 EDT

StillLearn posted :

I guess you are getting figures from a game server.

Ping and tracert/traceroute should be useful in figuring out what is going on. The standard version of Ping Plotter is really handy. There is a free 30-day trial.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:44:16 EDT

wrand posted : Thanks, StillLearn. I've gone through a wide variety of tests trying to figure this out. Speed isn't the problem, latency is. Everything looks good from our computer up to the local substation which makes this really baffling.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:19:30 EDT

StillLearn posted : Post modem stats including sync speed, attenuation and S/N info.

Also, how are you measuring your speeds? Try »helpme.att.net/dsl/speedtest

Try shutting down other computers in the house, and shut down your other programs before testing, including P2P software. See if test speeds improve.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:59:37 EDT

wrand posted : Thanks for looking into my situation. Dave took a further look and couldn't find a solution. He seemed to think my problem was Level3 -- which seemed odd to me as I would think that would be a wider spread problem than just my connection.

So I guess I have to decide to live with a crappy connection through SNET/AT&T or switch to Comcast (Dave said they might use a different peer router than Level3.) Or is there another option?

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Sat, 14 Mar 2009 06:45:50 EDT

MrFixitCT posted : if you want, IM me the tel# and I'll see what's up on Monday..

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Fri, 13 Mar 2009 22:21:59 EDT

wrand posted : I was at Pro speed and just downgraded. Speed was fine but had horrible latency. After months of back and forth trying to fix the problem AT&T said our lines might not be able to handle Pro speed and to downgrade which they did today. And latency is still horrible.

Re: Time to Downgrade?

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:07:15 EDT

MrFixitCT posted : before jumping send me the tel# and I'll see what I can find out..

Time to Downgrade?

Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:04:24 EDT

Jeff G posted : Hey guys latley seems I am just not able to get anywhere near the speeds I should. The modem is synced at 6016/768 or something simaler. I am on the elitle speed tier. No matter what I am always right around 3-3.5 download and like 350 upload. I have asked in the direct to review the line they always say looks fine. SHould I just downgrade and save the money or any ideas of other options to get at close to the speed I am paying to get?
Thanks Jeff