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Wurf It

@digitnet.com

Worth buying USPS insurance for eBay item?

I've won something on eBay, and the standard seller's disclaimer is in the auction terms "we don't take responsibility once it leaves our hands unless you purchase insurance."

But if I understand how shipping insurance works in conjunction with eBay, there is no advantage for the buyer in purchasing it. I mean, it's the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in the condition given in the auction listing. If the item arrives damaged, the buyer has every right to apply to PayPal for a refund. The way that the USPS does insurance, if you file a claim, they just blame any damage on poor packing. So from what I can tell, if the item is well-packed, you don't need insurance. If the item is poorly packed, the USPS won't pay off anyway.

Is this an accurate picture?



beck
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-29
On The Road
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Stablehost.com

What happens if it's just lost by USPS? If they have a tracking number and the post office has accepted the package and it's then just gone, you eat the loss.
--
Some people are like slinkies - not really good for much.
But they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.



jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Wurf It

The seller is responsible for getting the package to you undamaged. Their claim is irrelevant when it comes to paypal and snad complaints.

Do not pay for insurance.



I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25
reply to Wurf It

If the item cost a lot of money get the insurance.



Gbcue
Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
reply to Wurf It

Do not pay.



hitachi369
Embrace Your Rights
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:4
reply to Wurf It

It is the merchants responsibility to get you the item as described, if they want to offset any loss with insurance that is the sellers choice. I wouldn't and don't, just make sure you pay with something that will let you dispute the charges as most ebay merchants feel it isn't there responsibility.



runnoft
Premium
join:2003-10-14
Nags Head, NC
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Wurf It

It's baloney language. If you are paying by Paypal, it is widely considered wasteful among eBay regulars to take sellers up on their offer for optional insurance, because you are paying the sellers to protect them, not you. There's a saying among eBay regulars, "Insurance is for the protection of the seller."

Most sellers with that clause about "we're not responsible once we ship if you don't buy insurance" know it's not true under Paypal policy but include the language anyway to try and scare extra money out of you and scare off claims, but if they don't know it, Paypal will tell them in no uncertain times if you file an Item Not Received claim or a Significantly Not As Described claim. They are responsible... Paypal will make them refund you if your item does not show Delivery Confirmation or is damaged if you paid by Paypal... whether or not you paid for insurance.



SychoSly
Scoot the World
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Mount Prospect, IL
kudos:1
reply to Wurf It

It is the sellers responsibility to insure the item. When a buyer purchases an item the seller has to make sure the item is properly packed and that it arrives in the condition stated. So if you are the buyer then you do not need to purchase insurance.

If the item is damaged in transit then it was the sellers responsibility to insure the item. It is their loss not yours.
--
~Sly



SychoSly
Scoot the World
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Mount Prospect, IL
kudos:1
reply to beck

said by beck:

What happens if it's just lost by USPS? If they have a tracking number and the post office has accepted the package and it's then just gone, you eat the loss.
That is not true. The package has to show as delivered. If the package is lost then it can not be delivered.
--
~Sly


runnoft
Premium
join:2003-10-14
Nags Head, NC
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to beck

said by beck:

What happens if it's just lost by USPS? If they have a tracking number and the post office has accepted the package and it's then just gone, you eat the loss.
The seller eats the loss in this situation, if the buyer used Paypal and if the seller did not pay for insurance before shipping-- doesn't matter whether or not buyer paid seller for insurance, as far as Paypal is concerned. If seller paid USPS for insurance, seller can file a claim.

dentman42
Premium
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH

I've had a lot of sellers lately that are lucky I'm honest - no insurance and they didn't even get delivery confirmation. I always wonder if they just figure they'll eat any loss or if they really don't know how vulnerable that leaves them.



DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium
join:2003-01-29
Erie, PA
reply to jjoshua

said by jjoshua:

The seller is responsible for getting the package to you undamaged. Their claim is irrelevant when it comes to paypal and snad complaints.

Do not pay for insurance.
+1
--
Out the 10BaseT, through the modem, down the co-ax, over the fiber, across the backhaul, past the edge router, off the network...nothing but net


I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25

4 edits
reply to Wurf It

All a seller needs to do to cover their butts is to use a paypal address label and that will be their proof that they sent it. Now if some of the theories suggested above were true all every buyer would have to say is they didn't receive a package and paypal refunds everyones money? I don't think so.
So the above posters are saying that I can buy a $2,000 computer and then after I get it I tell paypal that I never received it and I get my money back too? FREE COMPUTERS FOR EVERYONE!
LMFAO!


mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
kudos:1
reply to Wurf It

Well, I'm an eBay seller myself and consider it my responsibility to make sure the buyer gets the item. I sell several hundred items a year and in the 4-5 years I've been doing this have never had a lost/damaged USPS shipment.

The seller can say what they want in the listing but that doesn't make it so. If something happens to the package it may not be their fault, but it's not yours either. If you ordered something from Amazon or Overstock or any other big name on line store and the item did not arrive, would you just let it go? Why should you expect anything less from eBay?

If I am selling a big-ticket item I will include insurance in the quoted shipping charges. The buyer cannot opt out...but they know that up front and can always simply shop elsewhere if they dislike my policy.

I say don't pay for the insurance.

mocycler



I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25

1 edit

said by mocycler:

If you ordered something from Amazon or Overstock or any other big name on line store and the item did not arrive, would you just let it go? Why should you expect anything less from eBay?

Amazon, Overstock, Newegg, etc use UPS or Fedex and the package is automatically covered. And if the purchase is over the $50 free limit they do as you do include the extra charge in the shipping price, which the BUYER IS PAYING FOR. So no matter how you look at it the BUYER PAYS insurance cost.

mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
kudos:1
reply to I Wish3

said by I Wish3:

All a seller needs to do to cover their butts is to use a paypal address label and that will be their proof that they sent it. Now if some of the theories suggested above were true all every buyer would have to say is they didn't receive a package and paypal refunds everyones money?
Not exactly...PayPal automatically includes delivery confirmation with a tracking number, so the seller will know if the item arrived or not.

I had one buyer claim he never received what I sent him, but I was able to confirm the date and time of delivery. I told him to shove off. Once the package arrives my job is done.

He contacted me about a month later and apologized for the foul language and accusations. Apparently, the item arrived while he was on vacation and the neighbor collecting the mail for him accidentally took it home!

mocycler


I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25

said by mocycler:

said by I Wish3:

All a seller needs to do to cover their butts is to use a paypal address label and that will be their proof that they sent it.
Not exactly...PayPal automatically includes delivery confirmation with a tracking number, so the seller will know if the item arrived or not.

Isn't that what i said?


runnoft
Premium
join:2003-10-14
Nags Head, NC
kudos:1

4 edits
reply to I Wish3

said by I Wish3:

All a seller needs to do to cover their butts is to use a paypal address label and that will be their proof that they sent it. Now if some of the theories suggested above were true all every buyer would have to say is they didn't receive a package and paypal refunds everyones money? I don't think so.
So the above posters are saying that I can buy a $2,000 computer and then after I get it I tell paypal that I never received it and I get my money back too? FREE COMPUTERS FOR EVERYONE!
LMFAO!
BZZZZT!!! Sorry, thanks for playing, but you are absolutely in the wrong here. Don't try this at home if you want to play eBay Seller. A smart eBay seller would NEVER sell a PC without getting Delivery Confirmation with Signature and insuring it, whether or not buyer paid for insurance, because yes, it is a common scam to claim non-delivery, and if you cannot prove Delivery Confirmation as the seller in an INR claim when buyer used Paypal to pay seller, you as seller are out the money AND the PC.

Please do some reading on eBay's Seller Central Forums. You can start here in FAQ at Question #4:
»forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller···00345854
and
»forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Ebay-B···12729233
and
»forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Seller···22004663
I could go on and on. There are HUNDREDS of threads where your error gets slapped down in the archives of eBay Seller Central Forums. Search it, please, before you go spreading misinformation.
»forums.ebay.com/db2/forum/Seller-Central/143

ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to Wurf It

In the long run, any insurance and warranties aren't in your best interest.



I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25

1 edit
reply to Wurf It

.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
reply to beck

NOT responsible FOR LOST OR STOLEN ITEMS!!

if it gets lost owell it's on you as the seller does not do the shipping (after it get to the post office)



I Wish3
If I could be anything it won't be you
Premium
join:2009-03-25

1 edit
reply to Wurf It

I just Emailed Ebay and asked why they allow sellers to charge buyers for insurance if the seller is responsible for delivery no matter what, and why it is even an option for the seller to select when posting an auction.
I'll post their answer when I get it.

If seller is responsible why do they offer this? Pretty dumb to allow sellers to rip off their buyers.




Like i said I will post Ebays answer when I get it.


joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6
reply to I Wish3

said by I Wish3:

All a seller needs to do to cover their butts is to use a paypal address label and that will be their proof that they sent it. Now if some of the theories suggested above were true all every buyer would have to say is they didn't receive a package and paypal refunds everyones money? I don't think so.
So the above posters are saying that I can buy a $2,000 computer and then after I get it I tell paypal that I never received it and I get my money back too? FREE COMPUTERS FOR EVERYONE!
LMFAO!
If the seller did not have the carrier obtain a signature what you said is absolutely correct.

I recently sold a DSL router on eBay the IDIOT who bought it didn't know how to set it up and didn't want any help with it. He/she (not sure, has a weird name) instead sent it back to me without even asking and a note asking for a refund. I plugged it in, reset it to defaults and it works just fine, sent it back along with a copy of the manual. The IDIOT filed a claim with PayPal once he/she found out what I had done and guess what, PayPal agrees with the buyer and issues them a refund.
--
PRescott7-2097


runnoft
Premium
join:2003-10-14
Nags Head, NC
kudos:1

4 edits

said by I Wish3:

I just Emailed Ebay and asked why they allow sellers to charge buyers for insurance if the seller is responsible for delivery no matter what, and why it is even an option for the seller to select when posting an auction.
I'll post their answer when I get it.

If seller is responsible why do they offer this? Pretty dumb to allow sellers to rip off their buyers.
[att=1]

Like i said I will post Ebays answer when I get it.


I don't think anybody knows why eBay allows sellers to say in their auctions that if the buyer declines insurance, seller is not responsible. Paypal (now owned by eBay but a separate operation, and the one that rules on auction Item Not Received and Significantly Not As Described claims where Paypal payment was made) just doesn't allow sellers to enforce it.

Whether it matters whether buyers take insurance clearly is answered in the eBay links I posted above. Did you check them out?


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Wurf It

said by Wurf It :

So from what I can tell, if the item is well-packed, you don't need insurance. If the item is poorly packed, the USPS won't pay off anyway.

Is this an accurate picture?
That's pretty much exactly how it works. To win a post office insurance claim they will inspect the packaging. If they feel the packaging was inadequate, they deny claim. Generally if item was damaged the packaging was inadequate.

It is the seller's responsibility to get the item to you in the same condition offered in the auction. Therefore insurance is always a protection for the seller. The seller must protect their interests by packaging well. Otherwise you will win a SNAD etc and the seller will end up booted off ebay. (If they continue their poor packaging ways...)

In short: No, you don't have to pay for insurance. This doesn't mean the seller is off the hook.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
reply to Wurf It

It might be different with USPS but with UPS when a claim is made it's made by the shipper, not the receiver. This isn't a small detail because any claim paid on damage in transit is paid to the shipper, not the receiver.



koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
Reviews:
·Shoreham Telephone
reply to Wurf It

I sell mostly on Amazon and use USPS.

The rules at Amazon are for the protection of the buyer, which is a good thing because it gives buyers the confidence to pay in advance for unseen items sold by strangers. I like any rules that allow online buyers to trust the system because that's good for sales.

If I choose to use insurance it would only be for a high-value item and/or an item sent to what appears to be a sketchy neighborhood, where it could be stolen if left on the front porch. The insurance would be my cost, not the buyer's and I rarely use it. If a package is not delivered, it is the seller's problem, though the buyer may file a lost package report with the USPS.
--
YOU can help reduce poverty, sustainably.
»www.kiva.org/lender/kenandart



Toadman
Hypnotoad

join:2001-11-28
Ex Ohioan
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

What amazes me is that people add their 2 cents when they have -
A) Never experienced Paypal and items not received/not received as described claims
B) Never even sold something on ebay!

I have been selling and buying on ebay for 10 years and I have seen everything. I have had buyers try before to claim that they have not received a package, or received it not as described. I have also had the privilege of being screwed out of not getting a package and having the seller try to get around not having to produce shipping documentation.

If you think Paypal will protect you, you are snorting coke. I honestly think that if Paypal could screw out both parties, they would! All that a seller needs to do is provide proof of shipment, and Paypal will side with the seller. Don't even try an item not as described. It becomes a he-said , she-said and Paypal would rather keep the fees then refund the money. They are in the business to make money, not make friends.

I follow these few rules-

1) I don't buy anything on ebay I will be devastated I don't receive. I have set a limit for myself of $50. Anything more than that I don't buy. Don't be naive, there is no bargains on ebay, just average deals or crap someone is trying to offload.
2) When I sell something more than $30, I purposely insure it within my shipping and build it into the cost. I don't offer buyers a choice.



kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
reply to Wurf It

YES!

USPS here in Brooklyn REGULARLY STOLE MY PACKAGES.

When I asked them with my pink slip in hand that whether "we cannot find your package" after they notified me they couldn't deliver it means someone STOLE it from their locker room they started yelling at me and lecturing me...

...unbelievable, seriously. USPS is an utter mess. Don't use it.
--
[BQUOTE=[user=bicker]]Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.
[/BQUOTE]



csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast

Maybe for you, but I've never had a single issue with USPS. (Or any of the other delivery companies.)

said by kamm:

YES!

USPS here in Brooklyn REGULARLY STOLE MY PACKAGES.

When I asked them with my pink slip in hand that whether "we cannot find your package" after they notified me they couldn't deliver it means someone STOLE it from their locker room they started yelling at me and lecturing me...

...unbelievable, seriously. USPS is an utter mess. Don't use it.

--
»www.wwiivehicles.com

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