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EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

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EUS

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Motorcycle buying - Used

I need some help, I am looking to purchase a used motorcycle, but know nothing about what to look for when viewing a used bike, and wish to learn. Cars seem to be easier to spot when they've been in an accident ie the spaces between doors/trunks/hoods etc do not align properly, but bikes?
Like a car, is a trip to a mechanic in order?
I have no brand preferances, but price point suggests it will be a japanese bike, touring style. Plus will hopefully last a few seasons.
TIA

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

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dirtyjeffer0

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usually, it is evident when a bike has been dropped...of course, they could repair the bike, so if you are really curious, you could pay to have it checked out at a local shop.

depending on the bike, there might not be much to them...since you are looking at a cruiser, they are more likely to be in better shape...quite often, people who have the sport bikes rev the piss out of them and "race" them, redlining every gear, doing wheelies and other stupid stuff...cruisers are generally driven more relaxed because that type of bike isn't "attractive" to the idiots who want to beat on something...as well, some cruisers (like Harleys, for example) don't have a water pump or liquid cooling (all the hoses, water lines, reservoir and a radiator) to worry about as they are air cooled (less complex)...and these engines also generally only have two cylinders and relatively simple valvetrains...quite often, sport bikes will have a high tech 4 cylinder engine, with multiple camshafts, 16 valves, etc...a decent Vtwin engine with 4 valves will power a cruiser along just fine...ironically enough, my bike is for sale on kijiji (i have a couple of potential buyers coming to see it this weekend).


My Bike :)

EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

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Why are you getting rid of it (if you don't mind sharing)?

Grumpy4
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join:2001-07-28
NW CT

Grumpy4 to EUS

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to EUS
If this is your first bike, you might want to take a rider's course where a bike is provided before you drop the loot on a bike with a title transferred to your name.

Bike ownership tends to go toward either love or hate for riding. There are times when conditions of environment can only be overcome by dumbstruck love for riding.

Just a thought...

EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

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This would not be my first bike, but I haven't had one for over 15 yrs now, and the itch is getting bad.

Grumpy4
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join:2001-07-28
NW CT

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Grumpy4

Premium Member

I know what you mean. Mine is in pieces, and the weather here is warming up.

Arrrrgh!!!

Anyhow, there is a price guide out there for used bikes, much like Blue Book or what have you, but I'm sorry I can't think of the source. If it doesn't pop for you on a search, let me know and I'll find out the name.

I don't see why you couldn't hire a bike mechanic to ride shotgun with you, but it might be a very tough time of year to find one, not to mention a dealership isn't going to be thrilled at people asking their employees to help with the purchase somewhere besides the dealer. Maybe an ad in the paper or weekly trader offering cash to card carrying bike mechanics would work?

Another random notion, the Kawasaki Concours models are generally revered as being bullet proof / ultra reliable, with plenty of power. I'd love to find one real cheap for a snow / Winter bike - oh yeah - having a full time job might help me along those lines too...

EUS
Kill cancer
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join:2002-09-10
canada

EUS

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Another question; how easy is it to spot a replaced odometer?

MrFixitCT
pay it forward

join:2000-12-01
Port Charlotte, FL

MrFixitCT to Grumpy4

to Grumpy4
said by Grumpy4:

Anyhow, there is a price guide out there for used bikes, much like Blue Book or what have you, but I'm sorry I can't think of the source. If it doesn't pop for you on a search, let me know and I'll find out the name.
»www.nadaguides.com/defau ··· mc&any=0

dirtyjeffer0
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London, ON

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said by EUS:

Why are you getting rid of it (if you don't mind sharing)?
i now car pool with my wife and she wears "dressy" clothes so she doesn't want to ride on the bike to work...the only time i will really get to ride it now will be on weekends, and i figure half the weekends it will rain out, so it leaves me with very little opportunity to ride it...i might as well let someone else enjoy it rather than leave it sit in my garage and collect dust (all while paying to insure it, etc).

i sold it this weekend, i figured it wouldn't last long.

ZOG321
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join:2003-10-22
Slingerlands, NY

ZOG321 to dirtyjeffer0

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to dirtyjeffer0
said by dirtyjeffer0:

usually, it is evident when a bike has been dropped...of course, they could repair the bike, so if you are really curious, you could pay to have it checked out at a local shop.

depending on the bike, there might not be much to them...since you are looking at a cruiser, they are more likely to be in better shape...quite often, people who have the sport bikes rev the piss out of them and "race" them, redlining every gear, doing wheelies and other stupid stuff...cruisers are generally driven more relaxed because that type of bike isn't "attractive" to the idiots who want to beat on something...as well, some cruisers (like Harleys, for example) don't have a water pump or liquid cooling (all the hoses, water lines, reservoir and a radiator) to worry about as they are air cooled (less complex)...and these engines also generally only have two cylinders and relatively simple valvetrains...quite often, sport bikes will have a high tech 4 cylinder engine, with multiple camshafts, 16 valves, etc...a decent Vtwin engine with 4 valves will power a cruiser along just fine...ironically enough, my bike is for sale on kijiji (i have a couple of potential buyers coming to see it this weekend).

[att=1]
I find this post to be extremely biased to any bike not an air cooled V-twin Harley. Remember, there are many shades of bike and you have just libeled all the foriegn cruisers, sport tourers, and sport bikes b/c of your "eye-blinders."

Whereas the younger crowd does gravitate to the Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha 4 cylinder sport and sport tourers, know that these engines are designed for, and made to run at, or above 10,000 rpm. The engine reliability problems, inferred by the above quoted poster is rubbish, especially when compared to an air cooled V-twin cruiser. If you have any doubts about a bike's reliability, go to that brand/model's forum board and read the discussions owners of that bike have posted.

dirtyjeffer0
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dirtyjeffer0

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said by ZOG321:
I find this post to be extremely biased to any bike not an air cooled V-twin Harley. Remember, there are many shades of bike and you have just libeled all the foriegn cruisers, sport tourers, and sport bikes b/c of your "eye-blinders."
eye blinders??...non-sense...i simply stated a fact...some engines are more simple than others, require less maintenance and therefore have fewer things to worry about...i didn't say he should go out a buy a Harley, i simply used them as an example as it is a very recognized brand AND all their bikes (Vrods excepted) are air cooled engines.
quote:
Whereas the younger crowd does gravitate to the Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha 4 cylinder sport and sport tourers, know that these engines are designed for, and made to run at, or above 10,000 rpm. The engine reliability problems, inferred by the above quoted poster is rubbish, especially when compared to an air cooled V-twin cruiser. If you have any doubts about a bike's reliability, go to that brand/model's forum board and read the discussions owners of that bike have posted.

i have owned Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki vehicles...all have been reliable...but that doesn't take away from the fact that some of them are more complex, may require more maintenance and may have more things to be aware about when looking at purchasing one (due to their complexity, you may want to take it to a bike shop for a professional opinion).

it isn't rubbish, it's the truth...prior to 1997, Porsche 911's were air cooled engines...Harley's are air-cooled engines, and are used by Police Forces across North America and they seem to work fine...the old VW Beetles were air cooled, and performed well in durability and cross country rally races back in the days...if anything, you seem to have the bias towards the metric bikes...i could care less about the brand of bike, i simply stated some things to look for, and pointed out some of the differences between some bikes...in case you didn't know, when shopping for a used bike, there will be some air cooled Yamaha's, Suzuki's and Honda's out there.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

I had 24,000 Miles of trouble-free riding, with frequent shifting at 9k most all the time on my V45 Magna before I sold it.
jpg3660
join:2004-04-09
Humble, TX

jpg3660 to dirtyjeffer0

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to dirtyjeffer0
Air cooling is good, but there were stories about some that went too fast and froze to death.

ZOG321
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join:2003-10-22
Slingerlands, NY

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ZOG321

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said by jpg3660:

Air cooling is good, but there were stories about some that went too fast and froze to death.
That's funny.

I'd like to hear a story of a Harley, or any other twin air cooled engined bike that can go 100k+ miles without multiple complete tear downs and rebuilds. My last bike, a '03 FZ1, an in-line 4 cylinder naked sport bike, had low miles before my deer avoidance crash, but on a FZ1 forum I belong to many owners/members have reached 50k, several 75k, and some over 100k miles, with just regular maintenance. A simpler engine does not equate better reliability.

Lurch77
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join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

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Lurch77

Premium Member

said by ZOG321:

I'd like to hear a story of a Harley, or any other twin air cooled engined bike that can go 100k+ miles without multiple complete tear downs and rebuilds. My last bike, a '03 FZ1, an in-line 4 cylinder naked sport bike, had low miles before my deer avoidance crash, but on a FZ1 forum I belong to many owners/members have reached 50k, several 75k, and some over 100k miles, with just regular maintenance. A simpler engine does not equate better reliability.
You seem to be under the impression the mileages you mentioned are something special? You are not really out of the loop that much, are you? You would like to hear stories? Fine, some are linked below. These are just a few of the many that can be found around the internet.

50K is not even close to high miles, why even mention it? Even 75K is nothing for any bike on the market, liquid or air cooled. Some over 100K? Big deal. Take a visit over to an air cooler board and you will see a lot of high mileage bikes there on original engines. Both the air cooled Yamaha Star bikes and HD touring bikes are built for the long haul and do it very reliably. The links below are of the lowly Sportster. My great uncle has an Ultra that is beat to the bones with well over 100K on it. All he does is travels since he retired. Every country in North America without an issue.

Here is a winner of H.O.G.'s ABCs of Touring. She has well over 100K on her original engine.
»www.travelblog.org/Blogg ··· ley-Mom/

Here is a thread from another board I visit. Several people in this thread with high miles.
»xlforum.net/vbportal/for ··· +mileage

I see no reason at all that my HD will not go as far or further than my Suzuki.

dirtyjeffer0
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said by ZOG321:
I'd like to hear a story of a Harley, or any other twin air cooled engined bike that can go 100k+ miles without multiple complete tear downs and rebuilds.
how about the bikes made for the 80 or so years before liquid cooling became more commonplace?
quote:
A simpler engine does not equate better reliability.

not in every case, but logic would dictate otherwise...generally speaking, the more there is, the more there is to go wrong.

liquid cooling didn't become "popular" for better reliability, it became "popular" for performance reasons...with liquid cooling, you can keep the bike operating at a specified operating temperature, which helps provide better balance for your air/fuel mixture as you are less likely to have a wide temperature difference between cylinders...generally, the cylinders are all about the same temperature...this provides improved efficiency, and allows you to cool the engine more evenly and quicker...this is especially important when you want to drive around all day at 8000 rpms...this isn't really a concern for most Harley riders, as they simply prefer to enjoy the ride and cruise along at lower RPMS in comfort, rather than laying on their gas tank, hanging on for dear life while the pistons, a mere 6 inches from their balls, are screaming around at 10,000 RPMS.

Grumpy4
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NW CT

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said by ZOG321:

I'd like to hear a story of a Harley, or any other twin air cooled engined bike that can go 100k+ miles without multiple complete tear downs and rebuilds.
Triumphs and BMWs.

As you know, neither use the confusing V twin design.

Some of the high end Harleys appear to be very well made, but that engine config puts me off. The damned thing is in sideways!

They do sound great though.

Puh-taytah Puh-taytah Puh-taytah

Lurch77
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join:2001-11-22
Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

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Oh but the torque! There is grunt all over the powerband in a v-twin.

docutech
Dream With Color
join:2000-12-22
Saint Louis, MO

docutech

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Click for full size
I second that...;)

DadeMurphy
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join:2002-07-25
Danvers, MA

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said by dirtyjeffer0:

than laying on their gas tank, hanging on for dear life while the pistons, a mere 6 inches from their balls, are screaming around at 10,000 RPMS.
That's actually my one fear about riding a bike and why I am so OCD about my maintenance on it. I've had my snowmobile literally toss a piston straight though the hood on my first ride after storing it for the summer (probably my fault, I likely missed something when putting it in storage). With my snowmobile and my motorcycle both operating in the same rpm ranges I know how fast a piston can launch out of the engine when you are near the top end and something goes wrong, no matter how unlikely that type of failure is.
ke4pym
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join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

ke4pym to Grumpy4

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said by Grumpy4:

If this is your first bike, you might want to take a rider's course where a bike is provided before you drop the loot on a bike with a title transferred to your name.
I took a MSF course here in town. First time on a bike and I freakin' *LOVED* it. Even though my first 10 miles ever were done in the rain. And the second day saw 35MPH wind gusts all day long.

There is verbage in the NC legislature that has ok chances of passing that will mandate riders take an MSF course before getting their motorcycle endorsement.

Lurch77
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Green Bay, WI

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said by dirtyjeffer0:

this isn't really a concern for most Harley riders, as they simply prefer to enjoy the ride and cruise along at lower RPMS in comfort, rather than laying on their gas tank, hanging on for dear life while the pistons, a mere 6 inches from their balls, are screaming around at 10,000 RPMS.
That's why I own one of each. A relaxed cruising bike, and a hang-on-for-dear-life-you're-gonna-die-soon-screaming-rocket. Nothing to life if you don't live a rush every now and then. And it's 13,500rpm, by the way. Of course with a family to think about, I don't push it much.

If a piston came out the head of the Gixxer it would hit my chest. It would still hurt like hell but not kill you. See the video below. The HD on the other hand, the rear piston would hit right square in the balls. That is if it made it by the frame some how. In this case I am sure I would want to be dead.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· 8Uqq4w6U
Lurch77

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Lurch77 to ke4pym

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to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:

There is verbage in the NC legislature that has ok chances of passing that will mandate riders take an MSF course before getting their motorcycle endorsement.
While I strongly feel all cyclists take the MSF course, I am not quite sure I like it being mandated by law. Once it is required you will see the price of the course going up. I think deeper discounts from insurance companies is the way to go.

ZOG321
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join:2003-10-22
Slingerlands, NY

ZOG321 to Grumpy4

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said by Grumpy4:

said by ZOG321:

I'd like to hear a story of a Harley, or any other twin air cooled engined bike that can go 100k+ miles without multiple complete tear downs and rebuilds.
Triumphs and BMWs.

As you know, neither use the confusing V twin design.

Some of the high end Harleys appear to be very well made, but that engine config puts me off. The damned thing is in sideways!

They do sound great though.

Puh-taytah Puh-taytah Puh-taytah

Nothing wrong with buying a Harley except the price. As for BMWs and Triumphs......umm, BMWs use the 180 degree boxer engine, like you alluded to, the Germans did demand a certain level of reliability out of their bikes but Triumphs were just as bad as the Nortons and had to be worked on every weekend, just to go for an hour ride!.....not saying I wouldn't want a couple of the old Triumphs or Nortons or BMWs in my garage!

dirtyjeffer - All, with an exception here or there, of those older bikes have been repaired/over hauled/redone many times. Less parts just make it easier to fix, it doesn't make it more reliable. 1930's motorcycle tech and tolerances are not the precision used today.

dirtyjeffer0
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dirtyjeffer0

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said by ZOG321:
Nothing wrong with buying a Harley except the price.
i hear that every once in a while...how a nice touring Harley can run you $25,000...i suppose you guys don't realize a Honda Goldwing is $33,000?!
quote:
dirtyjeffer - All, with an exception here or there, of those older bikes have been repaired/over hauled/redone many times. Less parts just make it easier to fix, it doesn't make it more reliable. 1930's motorcycle tech and tolerances are not the precision used today.

there are a lot of air cooled "simple" bikes still being made...there isn't anything wrong with them, they just don't put out the high performance numbers some of the "state of the art" bikes do...again, there is nothing "unreliable" about an air cooled bike.

Lurch77
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Green Bay, WI

Lurch77

Premium Member

You need to find some different dealers. I can get a loaded Ultra or Goldwing for about 22K. But your point still stands, the HD is no more expensive than the imported luxury touring bikes. One brand does hold value better than the rest, however.

neonhomer
Dearborn 5-2750
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Edgewater, FL

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If buying new or used, it pays to shop around. Some dealers will charge more for a given bike than the next dealer.

Case in point. I was shopping for a different bike. I already own a 2004 Harley Road King Police. I wanted to trade it for a Ultra Classic. I knew what I wanted, and the bikes I found varied by as much as $4000! (maybe more). Same bike, same options, similar mileage and same color.

Ended up just keeping my Road King.

I've heard Goldwings referred to as two wheeled Civics, and Harley Ultra Classics (Electra Glide Ultra Classic) referred to as Geezer Glides.
Spensergig
Past my Prime
MVM
join:2000-03-26
Bradenton, FL

Spensergig

MVM

said by neonhomer:

I've heard Goldwings referred to as two wheeled Civics, and Harley Ultra Classics (Electra Glide Ultra Classic) referred to as Geezer Glides.
That would seem to fit

dirtyjeffer0
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said by Lurch77:

You need to find some different dealers. I can get a loaded Ultra or Goldwing for about 22K. But your point still stands, the HD is no more expensive than the imported luxury touring bikes. One brand does hold value better than the rest, however.
keep in mind, i am in Canada:

Honda GoldWing $32,399:

»www.honda.ca/MCPE/Motorc ··· L1800AD9

Harley Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide $26,699:

»www.harley-davidson.com/ ··· l=flhtcu

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka

MVM

said by dirtyjeffer0:

keep in mind, i am in Canada:

Honda GoldWing $32,399:

»www.honda.ca/MCPE/Motorc ··· L1800AD9

Harley Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide $26,699:

»www.harley-davidson.com/ ··· l=flhtcu
I don't get the pricing.

I get $34K Canadian here:
»www.wheels.ca/Motorcycle ··· e/170468