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Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

1 recommendation

A film worth it?

said by Karl :

If true, it begs the question whether the revenues of a film studio are worth disrupting the revenue streams, connectivity, and 911 services for dozens of other companies.
Absolutely not.


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1

And is it worth a FBI investigation? IMO, NO.

Let the MPAA/RIAA hire their own chumps.



dcurrey
Premium
join:2004-06-29

They do. They are called US Government and all its related branches.


DufiefData

join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD
reply to Matt3

It is absolutely worth it -- this is a theft that could cost an American company tens- to hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a gross theft of intellectual property and creative material and it has to be stopped.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to hopeflicker

said by hopeflicker:

And is it worth a FBI investigation? IMO, NO.
The studio spent $100 million dollars making this movie. That automatically makes it of interest to the FBI - very high profile and an easy win to track down the leaker.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1
reply to DufiefData

said by DufiefData:

It is absolutely worth it -- this is a theft
Hey! look, there's that word again.


Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 recommendation

reply to DufiefData

What about Core IP? What about Core IP's customers? Who is going to compensate them for their losses?

When it turns out that Core IP had nothing to do with it, the MPAA membership and FBI should be liable to reimburse Core IP and their customers for this avoidable interference in their business.


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 edit
reply to hopeflicker

said by hopeflicker:

said by DufiefData:

It is absolutely worth it -- this is a theft
Hey! look, there's that word again.
Yeah, it's a knee jerk reaction by people when they call infringement theft. I suppose theft is much more glamorous sounding and attention getting than infringement.

That being said, theft is a possibility if the person without authorization took the media on which the movie was stored.


Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
reply to DufiefData

Copyright infringement isn't theft. It's copyright infringement.


JoelC707
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL
kudos:5
reply to Bit00

I absolutely 100% agree with you and was coming here to ask that very same question. Let alone the businesses that have lost countless thousands or millions because of this, what about the 911 issues they caused? I'd hate to be the one that has to explain this when inevitably someone has been inconvenienced or worse by the lack of phone/911 service because of this.

And regarding the other businesses colocated there, there needs to be some kind of procedure in place to prevent collateral damage. The FBI had NO BUSINESS turning everything off like they did. I'd be willing to bet they stormed in at gunpoint and flipped every breaker they could find without any regards for what it might do. I realize most of them aren't computer savvy but I'll bet they don't do that again if it ruins the very data they needed to make the case because they caused a head crash on the drive.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Matt3

what right does the FBI have to shut those servers off? Core IP should have said no we will not power down current customers.

one movie is in no way at all worth more then even one business customer's connection.

Core IP should sue the MPAA, the studio and the FBI for the value of all refunds their contracts will likely require them to pay their customers.



swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
reply to DufiefData

Of course it's worth investigating. But it doesn't justify trampling on the rights and property of lots of innocent citizens or companies, and imposing large costs on them, when the investigation could be handled more intelligently by tracing the path of the leaked release in non-destructive ways.



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

3 edits
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

what right does the FBI have to shut those servers off? Core IP should have said no we will not power down current customers.

one movie is in no way at all worth more then even one business customer's connection.


Core IP should sue the MPAA, the studio and the FBI for the value of all refunds their contracts will likely require them to pay their customers.
The FBI had a warrant. Core-IP has NOTHING to say about if they are seized or not. If they refused, the FBI would do it themselves. And if they tried to stop the FBI from executing a court ordered warrant they would be arrested.

There is NO proof that the raid on Core IP had anything to do with it. Both Simpson's blog and the news story link mention NOTHING about a movie tie-in.
»CBS news report has no mention to movie investigation
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
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reply to FFH

If this raid is a direct response to the Wolv-Leak, do you approve of it?
NV


lacklusterbb

join:2009-03-12
reply to Bit00

Actually, amendments to the copyright act have made copyright violations a criminal act in the U.S. It's unfortunate, but US lawmakers, at the urging of lobbyists for the film and music industry will probably keep ramping up the criminal penalties in response to uncontrollable actions in foreign countries that turn a blind eye to copyright violations. The US-based film and music industry has little influence in those countries (and most likely never will). Although the media in the US doesn't focus on it, we have plenty of working poor people in this country (and that number is swelling), but our government doesn't look at issues like price gouging or monopolistic practices that encourage price gouging. Foreign governments that turn a blind eye on copyright infringement generally believe their citizens shouldn't have to pay what western copyright holders charge, even though their citizens are benefiting from opened US trade and the shifting of jobs from the US to their countries. The movie studios and music industry had best look at their business models as more and more US-based production disappears. When the majority of the citizenry in this country are working minimum wage jobs, they're going to have a hard time giving away their product here, let alone selling it at inflated prices.



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to DufiefData

said by DufiefData:

It is absolutely worth it -- this is a theft that could cost an American company tens- to hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a gross theft of intellectual property and creative material and it has to be stopped.
So then, you'd voluntarily bring your company's business to a halt, for a week or more, if it would aid an MPAA affiliate investigate a leak after the fact?
NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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Lorton, VA
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·Bright House
reply to JoelC707

Like everyone else on Earth, Law Enforcement isn't perfect.

If law enforcement escapes some sort of deterrent against poor judgment, we'll have more poor judgment from law enforcement.

It's a lot easier to support LE Agencies when I can trust them.

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.



Grail Knight

Premium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit
reply to Noah Vail

quote:
So then, you'd voluntarily bring your company's business to a halt, for a week or more, if it would aid an MPAA affiliate investigate a leak after the fact?
It stands to reason that usually a crime must be committed first so any investigation is after the fact. What are you getting at here?

Of course there can be investigations before a crime is committed to prevent a crime but that is not what happened here according to the news report.

As for companies voluntarily halting production for an investigation is this anything new?

Edit* Added more.

--
"One good conspiracy theory deserves another."


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to Noah Vail

said by Noah Vail:

If this raid is a direct response to the Wolv-Leak, do you approve of it?
NV
It wasn't.

But IF it was and the FBI convinced a judge that a search & seizure warrant was justified, I would have no problem with it. Of course, if the FBI exceeded their authority and seized MORE than what was authorized, then damages should be awarded and a reprimand against the FBI agents exceeding their warrant should be pursued internally at the FBI.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to FFH

said by FFH:

Re: A film worth it?
said by Kearnstd:
Is a film worth it?
what right does the FBI have to shut those servers off? Core IP should have said no we will not power down current customers.

Is a film worth it?
one movie is in no way at all worth more then even one business customer's connection.


Core IP should sue the MPAA, the studio and the FBI for the value of all refunds their contracts will likely require them to pay their customers.
Is a film worth it?
The FBI had a warrant. Core-IP has NOTHING to say about if they are seized or not. If they refused, the FBI would do it themselves. And if they tried to stop the FBI from executing a court ordered warrant they would be arrested.
Is a film worth it?
There is NO proof that the raid on Core IP had anything to do with it. Both Simpson's blog and the news story link mention NOTHING about a movie tie-in.
I gather your point is that you are unable to answer the oft repeated question, until you know if the raid is connected with the movie leak.

Hmmm. This is a lot like conversations with O'Bama supporters. Unitedly unable to provide direct answers to clearly worded questions.

NV

EDIT:
I DID receive an unambiguous answer above, a time after I put this up. The progress we've made is truly gratifying.
Thank you.

NV


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to Grail Knight

said by Grail Knight:

quote:
So then, you'd voluntarily bring your company's business to a halt, for a week or more, if it would aid an MPAA affiliate investigate a leak after the fact?
It stands to reason that usually a crime must be committed first so any investigation is after the fact. What are you getting at here?
I'm trying to determine if your support for 'The Cause' extends into to paying real life penalties.

said by Grail Knight:

Of course there can be investigations before a crime is committed to prevent a crime but that is not what happened here according to the news report.

As for companies voluntarily halting production for an investigation is this anything new?
So your answer to my question is...

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to Noah Vail

said by Noah Vail:

I gather your point is that you are unable to answer the oft repeated question, until you know if the raid is connected with the movie leak.

Hmmm. This is a lot like conversations with O'Bama supporters. Unitedly unable to provide direct answers to clearly worded questions.

NV
I did answer it directly. Maybe you should re-read the reply:

Your question:
If this raid is a direct response to the Wolv-Leak, do you approve of it?

My Answer:
But IF it was and the FBI convinced a judge that a search & seizure warrant was justified, I would have no problem with it. Of course, if the FBI exceeded their authority and seized MORE than what was authorized, then damages should be awarded and a reprimand against the FBI agents exceeding their warrant should be pursued internally at the FBI.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


Grail Knight

Premium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6
reply to Noah Vail

Real life penalties happen. I have no issue with this other then if it is indeed effecting emergency services then that needs to be restored ASAP.
--
"One good conspiracy theory deserves another."



Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

said by Grail Knight:

Real life penalties happen. I have no issue with this other then if it is indeed effecting emergency services then that needs to be restored ASAP.
So then, the MPAA's business interests, outweigh the business interests of the ISP and their downstream customers.

That is, if the MPAA suffers a financial loss of some kind, then it is acceptable to begin a process of burdening other (read: smaller, less politically connected) businesses financially, until the MPAA reaches their desired goal.

Since this is a good thing, to you, are you willing to participate in the process, by sharing in the financial burden?

Would you send a meaningful check to the ISP to offset their loss, or is that where you draw the line?

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
reply to Bit00

When it involves someone taking some 99 cent songs, they like to call it copyright infringement. When it involves multi-million dollar movies, they call it IP theft. I generally hold to the old school, traditional definition: taking something that doesn't belong to you that wasn't given to you by its owner has always been theft. Of course, that's what the FBI warnings attached to movies tell you. It is disappointing, though, to see the FBI in bed with the Maf-IAAs... no good will come of it. I also have no doubt that the movie was "released" by the film's PR agents because they know that doing so will only increase the film's gross--loads of free advertising. (Of course, if the film's a stinker... meh.)



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by mod_wastrel:

I also have no doubt that the movie was "released" by the film's PR agents because they know that doing so will only increase the film's gross--loads of free advertising. (Of course, if the film's a stinker... meh.)
Do you really think the PR guys would do that and THEN call in the FBI to investigate and risk being arrested?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

But IF it was and the FBI convinced a judge that a search & seizure warrant was justified, I would have no problem with it. Of course, if the FBI exceeded their authority and seized MORE than what was authorized, then damages should be awarded and a reprimand against the FBI agents exceeding their warrant should be pursued internally at the FBI.
That's a pretty good answer.

We're still wargaming here. Continue to assume it's a MPAA related raid.

Next question:
How confident are you that the FBI was careful and prepared enough to make certain (as they could be) to cause as little impact as possible?

NV
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

said by Noah Vail:

That's a pretty good answer.

We're still wargaming here. Continue to assume it's a MPAA related raid.

Next question:
How confident are you that the FBI was careful and prepared enough to make certain (as they could be) to cause as little impact as possible?

NV
Not being there and only basing an answer on the purported FBI actions on the CLAIMS of the targeted individual, I have no idea. If & when more info on both actions taken by the FBI and on the reason the raid targeted the site could you answer if the FBI exceeded their warrant.

But, in general, I expect the FBI did only what they were authorized to do and took care to do no more than that.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12
reply to hopeflicker

said by hopeflicker:

said by DufiefData:

It is absolutely worth it -- this is a theft
Hey! look, there's that word again.
Yep, there it is again. If you watch this and don't go see it at full price, it's theft. If you watch it and then go see it, eh, if I was a movie studio I wouldn't care.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to FFH

said by FFH:

But, in general, I expect the FBI did only what they were authorized to do and took care to do no more than that.
Authorization = Ethical?

Ohhh. Not good.

We're determining the ethics of having one business suffer a penalty, at the loss of another. I'd think you've been around enough to know that a big enough stink will get all the authorization there is: Whether it's merited or not.

Now then:
We've no need for further endless disclaimers.
We've Authorized the assumption of an MPAA driven raid; remember?
Since it's Authorized, whatever we do is Perfectly OK!

Silly.

said by FFH:


Not being there and only basing an answer on the purported FBI actions on the CLAIMS of the targeted individual,
I have no idea. If & when more info on both actions taken by the FBI and on the reason the raid targeted the site could you answer if the FBI exceeded their warrant.
So as long as it doesn't exceed warrant limitations, any UNNECESSARY damage done by the FBI is a GOOD THING.

My question was "How confident are you that the FBI was careful and prepared enough to make certain (as they could be) to cause as little impact as possible?

To which you replied: "I have no idea".
If you had confidence in the FBI, you'd probably know about it.
That tells us that you do not have inherent confidence in this agency.
There's nothing in you that presumes that the FBI conducts themselves in an ethical and moral manner.
You also indicate that as long as they operate within some politically driven guidelines, measurable damage to unconnected parties is not worth considering.

And that seems to be OK with you.

Wow.

Remind me again. Who is the government supposed to be serving?
Here's a hint:
It's supposed to be the same,
as who is ultimately supposed to benefit
from the existence of large and powerful corporations.

Nv
--
In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture.