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dbmaven
There's no shortage
Premium,Mod
join:1999-10-26
Sty in Sky
kudos:3
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Optimum Online

[VoIPo] If you have a Linksys router...

....and a PAP2T, and you're experiencing problems (like I was), then you have a couple of choices.

But I can tell you - don't expect any miracles from the extremely frustrating Linksys firmware.
Whatever the hell they're doing with NAT is FUBAR - in the truest sense of the word.

I spent hours this afternoon with Brandon - sniffing packets and trying all sorts of strange and wonderful settings on router/PAP2/VOIPO provisioning. I even took my 'old' WRT54GS and set it up as the internet router with the PAP2 hanging off it - taking the WRT610N out of the picture.

Same behavior.

Whatever they've done to the recent Linksys firmware - it's borking NAT across several models.

Solution: DD-WRT

I flashed the 54GS with DD-WRT and it plain works.
No port forwarding
No DMZ

No nothing - it just works.
No dropped registrations - no lost audio in either direction. Just works.

So - if you're not a tech geek (I know - most of you reading this are.....) then I have one piece of advice:
DO NOT BUY A LINKSYS ROUTER
If you already bought one - take it back.
Get a Netgear or D-Link - or something else.
'Cause if you stick with the stock Linksys firmware - you're liable to be in for a whole lot of pain and aggravation - which means Voipo support will be too.
And it ain't Voipo's fault....

If you're stuck with one - get DD-WRT (or Tomato, which also is reported to work well but supports very few models).
It's not hard to do, and if your situation is like mine, it will be solved.

Many thanks to Brandon for his patience and perseverance.
And now, I intend to be an 'invisible customer' - 'cause it just works...........

/end rant
--
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.


burris
Premium
join:2000-08-22
Miami, FL
While I was searching for routers, I too tried that same Linksys, and found it to be just as faulty as yours.
This was during the beta testing and I had enough control to work my way out of it until I found an ASUS WL-520GU router that hasn't missed since I turned it up about 6-8 months ago. Highly recommended, and I understand it can be flashed with WRT.
Glad you got squared away.

slow mo

join:2002-03-19
USA

2 edits
reply to dbmaven
quote:
And now, I intend to be an 'invisible customer' - 'cause it just works...........
Me and my D-Link router have it this way since day one. It just works, no port forwarding, no DMZ, except HT-502 re-registration issue (now replaced with perfectly working PAP2T). Uncheck SIP in ALG firewall (or check Gaming Mode) is the only thing to do.

Glad it's working for you.

shodge

join:2005-05-03
Hilliard, OH

2 edits
reply to dbmaven
Hmmm....

I guess I have a different perspective. I purchased my linksys specifically because I could re-flash with DD-WRT. My WRT310N [Sorry I had originally said 610 in error]was not running more than 5 minutes out of the box before I re-flashed it.

I have little faith with my experience with linksys firmware and even LESS with netgear or D-Link. The hardware Linksys provides is for the most part good. DD-WRT has made be a believer in open source.

I too am having NO issues with DD-WRT with VOIPO.

-Stan

tabqueen

join:2005-08-05
Jacksonville, FL
reply to dbmaven
Thanks for the info on the Linksys router! Unfortunately, I have one and that could be one of the contributing factors to the problems I've been having. Seems very strange that a Linksys ATA would have difficulty working with a Linksys router and the strange thing is that it seemed to work ok for me with VT. I swear, I will never understand all this stuff

I tried to set up an 'old' router last night (Zyxel) but there is something wrong with it as all I get are flashing lights on it and that must be the reason I went back to the Linksys. Guess I'll have to look at alternatives, but appreciate the info on the router.


dbmaven
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reply to shodge
If and when the 610N DD-WRT version goes 'public'/stable release, let me know how it works out. I won't brick or hobble a $150+ router with beta firmware.

tabqueen See Profile I had the same expectations - that a Linksys router and Linksys ATA designed to be behind a router should work. Unfortunately, they don't play nice.
If you feel brave - the DD-WRT installation process for most Linksys routers is pretty straightforward, and I'm sure people here, or in the Linksys forum, would help walk you through it. For example, there was a pretty good screen-shot tutorial for mine:
»www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/WR···Tutorial

PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
reply to slow mo
said by slow mo:


Me and my D-Link router have it this way since day one. It just works, no port forwarding, no DMZ, Uncheck SIP in ALG firewall...is the only thing to do.
Exactly my experience with D-Link DGL-4100 Gaming Router.

I have two of these (home and job), different ATA's, different Voip providers, never a problem.

The D-Link DGL-4300 router is the wireless version.


unknvoip
RIP goose
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join:2006-07-25
Rochester, NY
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Reviews:
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reply to dbmaven
My experience, or rather expectations are more like shodge.

I purchased my wrt64GL routers (3 of them) with the sole purpose of running 3rd party firmware to perform specific tasks in my home network.

So while I can not speak to the inability of the routers with stock firmware to work well with the PAP2 or PAP2T, I can verify they work nicely with both DD-WRT and Tomato.

stevech0

join:2006-09-17
San Diego, CA
My LInksys ATA connected to a Linksys W-router works fine. No VoIP problems with default settings, no QoS.

I did setup DHCP reservation for the ATA so it always gets the same DHCP assigned LAN address.

That's all.

dcm

join:2008-09-12
Pennsylvania
reply to dbmaven
My Linksys WRT54G v3 (w/ the original stock firmware) / PAP2 v1 (unlocked Vonage) combo works fine.


dbmaven
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Sty in Sky
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The key in your case is v3 and stock firmware.

I'm fairly certain that an older firmware on my 54GS would have worked ok. It's the latest versions of the Linksys (and some other vendors, too) firmware that fouls up the NAT.

toro

join:2006-01-27
Scarborough, ON
kudos:7
Reviews:
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reply to dbmaven
I had the same issue with WRT54GL 1.1 and the newest firmware for it from the Linksys web site.
Apparently in the newest firmware versions they changed they way they do NAT, I can't remember exactly how, I believe in the newest versions they use Restricted cone NAT while in older ones it was Full cone NAT (see »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_ad···s_of_NAT)

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to dbmaven
I have mine behind a wrt54g and it works fine.


ptrowski
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join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to dbmaven
I went with DD-WRT 24sp1 all around last night on two routers. I use a WRT54G v4 as the AP and a WRT54GL as a client bridge. It seems to be running well.

I also learned it's easier to do it when you have not had a few drinks and decide at 12:15 am that it's a great project to start.


usa2k
Blessed
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3
said by ptrowski:

I also learned it's easier to do it when you have not had a few drinks and decide at 12:15 am that it's a great project to start.
Translate: VOIPo updates during prime time is better
--

Jim, VoIP since 12/2002, VOIPo 2/7/2007
FAH-Tool ... Whales ... VOIPo Forum ... VOIPo Review


ptrowski
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Putnam, CT
kudos:4
said by usa2k:

said by ptrowski:

I also learned it's easier to do it when you have not had a few drinks and decide at 12:15 am that it's a great project to start.
Translate: VOIPo updates during prime time is better
Ha! So that is why they do it during the day.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org


skyhook
Premium
join:2004-06-30
Columbus, OH
reply to dbmaven
I think your problems with the WRT610N has more to do with the way it modifies the SIP headers and SDP body than with the NAT implementation. It breaks SIP and and the worst part is that you cannot disable it using stock firmware.

I have encountered D-Link and Zyxel routers that have a SIP ALG that breaks SIP. The D-Links and some Zyxel's ALG's can be disabled with a web browser while other Zyxel's require you to drill down with CLI to disable.

--
----------------
P1-19-33987


dbmaven
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Trust me - it's the firmware - not the router.

The latest Linksys firmware (which means the 'only' firmware for the 610N) does it. So does the latest for the WRT54GS - and probably the latest for any of the 54Gx series.

Verified with packet sniffing by VoipoBrandon.


usa2k
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Redford, MI
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Re: [VoIPo] If you have a Linksys router...

said by dbmaven:

Trust me - it's the firmware - not the router.
Ironically, when I bought a Linksys, I never gave the firmware a chance.
I immediately installed Tomato 1.23

druber

join:2000-04-11
Stow, MA
I've got 3 linksys routers at two houses, all running dd-wrt. The stock linksys FW sux.


usa2k
Blessed
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join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3
Think about what a bad reputation they could have without the alternates. And if you choose an alternate, you can blame them for software issues!

bumpernickle

join:2005-01-04
united state
reply to usa2k
said by usa2k:

said by dbmaven:

Trust me - it's the firmware - not the router.
Ironically, when I bought a Linksys, I never gave the firmware a chance.
I immediately installed Tomato 1.23
I'm just curious, what sucks about the standard Linksys firmware? I've had a Linksys WRT54G and WRT54GS and never had any issues with the standard Linksys firmware either with any of the VoIP providers I use, or in general.

Clearly DDWRT, Tomato, and other firmwares have more features; but I've never seemed to need that stuff. Even the built-in very basic QoS in Linksys's firmware just seems to work by setting my ATA's ethernet port to highest priority.

Can you (or anyone else) give any specific comments on what isn't good / doesn't work with Linksys's stock firmware; or what specific features/reasons you moved to 3rd party firmwares? Thanks.


usa2k
Blessed
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join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3
I think it was changing SIP headers?
dbmaven See Profile would be the best to articulate this.
I was merely going for QOS.

bubbanc

join:2007-05-05
Garner, NC
reply to dbmaven

Re: [VoIPo] If you have a Linksys router...

So those of you using Tomato, I seemed to have issues with 1.23 and have since moved back to 1.19 and that has apparently fixed my Voipo issues (at least for now). I used DD-WRT a long time ago but moved away since it appeared to have grown into an "everything and the kitchen sink" sort of firmware where as Tomato was well laid out and only offered the features I needed. I may give DD-WRT another shot since it appears this has fixed many issues.

camfused

join:2004-07-14
Cary, NC

3 edits
reply to dbmaven
I have dusted off my old WRT54GS, which I keep as my backup router, and stuck DD-WRT on it. I noticed that there was a regular and a VOIP version. I put on the VOIP version, but I don't know what the difference is. Back on the shelf, for now.

jay_rm

join:2002-04-12
Netville
reply to bubbanc
said by bubbanc:

So those of you using Tomato, I seemed to have issues with 1.23 and have since moved back to 1.19 and that has apparently fixed my Voipo issues (at least for now).
FYI, I have been using Tomato 1.23 since it's release and have had no issues related to VoIP. However, I've long since retired my Linksys WRT (and DD-WRT) and am using a Buffalo WHR-G54S.

**NO** TA issues with VOIPo and my replacement PAP2 (the Grandstream replacement) *OR* ViaTalk and a BYOD SPA-1002 - not a one.
--
3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !'


usa2k
Blessed
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join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3

Re: [VoIPo] If you have a Linksys router...

Tomato 1.23 and VOIPo seemed to have an issue if you do a soft reboot of the router. I would lose registration after something like 49 uneventful days. Reboots of everything got it back working normal. Besides that caveat, 1.23 seem alright by me.
--

Jim, VoIP since 12/2002, VOIPo 2/7/2007
FAH-Tool ... Whales ... VOIPo Forum ... VOIPo Review

bubbanc

join:2007-05-05
Garner, NC

1 edit
reply to jay_rm

Re: [VoIPo] If you have a Linksys router...

said by jay_rm:

FYI, I have been using Tomato 1.23 since it's release and have had no issues related to VoIP. However, I've long since retired my Linksys WRT (and DD-WRT) and am using a Buffalo WHR-G54S.

**NO** TA issues with VOIPo and my replacement PAP2 (the Grandstream replacement) *OR* ViaTalk and a BYOD SPA-1002 - not a one.
I'm in the same boat. I'm using WHR-G54S's (I've got at least one of them in the closet as a backup and I've deployed these to my folks and inlaws homes) and all my WRT54G's are collecting dust. Even modded one WRT for Serial and JTAG, but they don't seem to be as stable as the Buffalo routers. Everytime I find a G54S on eBay for under $20 I buy it

Since you have the same hardware, I'd be curious what your network setup is. Are you using QoS? If so, how are things configured? Are you forwarding ports for Voipo or is your PAP2T in the DMZ? Any other settings or tweaks on the Buffalo side that might affect stability? I have Earthlink cable so my upload is about 384.

Thanks,
Bubba

adrman
Premium
join:2007-08-23
New York, NY
kudos:1
Buffalo/Tomato 1.23 and Voipo here as well. No problems with registration on router soft reboots. Currently, I'm running without forwarded ports and am not having any problems. Although previously, when working out Grandstream issues and initially when I put the PAP2T into service, I forwarded the recommended ports. I am using QOS with a created rule for anything outbound from the PAP2T to have the highest priority. Everything's working great. (finding wood to knock on)


usa2k
Blessed
Premium,MVM
join:2003-01-26
Redford, MI
kudos:3

1 edit
said by adrman:

Buffalo/Tomato 1.23 and Voipo here as well.
No problems with registration on router soft reboots.
Interesting. I thought soft reboot was OK but discovered there was never a need until someone on VOIPo forums asked if others had that issue. I said I did not, but then saw that I powered it up the 1st day and never needed to after that. Maybe it was a bad day that I did the test on?

EDIT: It was the router you soft rebooted, not the ATA, right?
--

Jim, VoIP since 12/2002, VOIPo 2/7/2007
FAH-Tool ... Whales ... VOIPo Forum ... VOIPo Review