Topic '[General] Reviews' in forum 'VOIP Tech Chat'

Topic '[General] Reviews' in forum 'VOIP Tech Chat' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/General-Reviews-22186632 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:49:06 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:49:06 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197706
When things started getting rough, I didn't want to post an unfair snapshot review (even though I did lose registration at one point). To emphasize my point that the line doesn't get a ton of use, I should point out that I only noticed I was unregistered when Tim sent me a PM to tell me. :o

I had ViaTalk for a little over a year and never posted a review. Again, the issue was that I hardly used the service so didn't experience the up-and-down behavior described in the forums at the time. I dropped the VT line in good part because I couldn't get the extreme discount and didn't use the line enough to justify a higher price point.

I posted the Voipo review because of a promise I made to Tim after receiving some very good technical support service.

My point is that it's completely valid to post a review describing your experience. When people get unhinged about it, it can be fun, depressing, and even bewildering (like the negative CallVantage review from the person who never got the service running and asked, "What's broadband?"). I wouldn't worry about the childishness of people responding to the review(s). If you're honest and not nasty or unrealistic in your review, it will be taken at face value. (And if it's not taken at face value, you know you're not the one with 'issues'. :D )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197706 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:40:25 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197621 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197621 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:24:39 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197594 said by dcurrey:

I see nothing wrong either with asking people to update the reviews.
I make it a point to not post official reviews anymore ! Matter of fact, if I could retract all my reviews, I would do it.

I learned from my ViaTalk experience - if you post a good review and then defend the provider from unwarranted criticism, you are immediately labeled a shill and get flames from various knuckleheads.

Here's my review - I'm currently purchasing service from ViaTalk, VOIPo and Future-Nine. *ALL* work flawlessly AT THIS POINT IN TIME (today, April 7th 2009 at 9:16AM CDT).

Both Timo and Nitzan have asked me in the past to write official reviews. I will have to respectfully decline as the level of childish behavior on DSLR is at an all time high.
--
3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !']]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197594 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:19:22 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197416 said by dcurrey:

I am going to get flamed for this but voipo has a truly cult following. So does DSLR]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197416 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:44:53 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197211 said by burris:

said by ptrowski:

I might as well have the Scarlet F on my chest I guess.

Service worked well, service was botchedd by the 502 upgrade, datacenter outages and the latency from the supposed "DDOS" attack. Prior to these things the service worked just as it should-extremely well. Soi I am to be ok with that and not ask questions and expect answers? You asked questions of VT all along but stuck with them until you got your buyout. I don't see why you did not take your own advice way back when Burris, or is it hard to see the forest through the trees?

The last outage thread for Voipo was started by you but they get a 100% reliability rating. Interesting.

I comprehend that it was working well, and then it wasn't due to nothing on my end changing.

I do believe you made some changes on your end, that after support discovered them, moved you to correcting them.

As I said before, I had already begun my port to VOIPo long before I was offered my money back from VT.

I did start a thread about a problem, but again, it was not the end of the world and my service was out for a few minutes. When you find "ANY" Voip provider where this doesn't happen, let's all line up and sign up.

Instead of ranting, you were offered all your money back, but you stated that this was not in keeping with your structure and you were going to fight it until you perservered.
Correct I stayed because I don't care for the "please go away" refund. That doesn't sit well for me. It would be easy for any company to say "yep, bad review but we gave him his money back so all is well." I would rather have the service get back to where it was (working very well) prior to the tripple play of issues, none of which were on my end.

Look, whether the GBU is accurate or not, updating reviews for the sole purpose of getting a higher ranking to drown out negative reviews is what is going on. All companies try to work the system. It is what it is.

This is going to turn into the "was it ok to post someone's usage" thread. There will be two camps.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197211 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:53:24 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197185 said by ptrowski:

I might as well have the Scarlet F on my chest I guess.

Service worked well, service was botchedd by the 502 upgrade, datacenter outages and the latency from the supposed "DDOS" attack. Prior to these things the service worked just as it should-extremely well. Soi I am to be ok with that and not ask questions and expect answers? You asked questions of VT all along but stuck with them until you got your buyout. I don't see why you did not take your own advice way back when Burris, or is it hard to see the forest through the trees?

The last outage thread for Voipo was started by you but they get a 100% reliability rating. Interesting.

I comprehend that it was working well, and then it wasn't due to nothing on my end changing.
I do believe you made some changes on your end, that after support discovered them, moved you to correcting them.

As I said before, I had already begun my port to VOIPo long before I was offered my money back from VT.

I did start a thread about a problem, but again, it was not the end of the world and my service was out for a few minutes. When you find "ANY" Voip provider where this doesn't happen, let's all line up and sign up.

Instead of ranting, you were offered all your money back, but you stated that this was not in keeping with your structure and you were going to fight it until you perservered. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197185 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:44:10 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197184
Yea they have been excellent about trying to fix and repair the problems when they come up. But I have never seen any voip provider have ongoing issues for months and only have a couple folks speak up about it. God help you if you do speak up especially if its a public forum. Seems they don't want any body saying anything negative or asking questions. If so needs to be said in voipo private forums out of public eyes.

Maybe I just need to drink the Kool-aid and shut up. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197184 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:43:44 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197172 said by nomo1082:

I'm going to throw this out here because its a similar situation. In a previous life I was a manager in a retail store and, like most stores, had customer comment cards. We gave a reward to associates who were named in a customer comment card with a positive comment (and appropriately coached for negative ones). However, we had to stop this program when I found out that associates were soliciting customers to fill out the comment cards and to name them (and let one go who actually filled them out themself). The reason being that we felt that these reviews (especially such positive ones) shouldn't be solicited. There were plenty of reminders around the store requesting customer comments (signs, cards at the registers, on the receipts, etc) that if a customer really felt that the service they received was deserving of praise, they'd take the effort to do so. Otherwise, by putting the customer on the spot, such reviews might not be as genuine.

To this day.Target-J.C.Penny-and a multitude of other merchants do this. Are they all wrong?

An aside... do you actually have to change something in the review to have it become "updated"? In other words, can you edit it, change nothing, and save and it goes to the top? If so that's an easily gamed system there.

Now, I am not a VoIPo customer. Instead, I am an observer. And here are a couple observations I've made. Let me make it clear that I'm not trying to influence anyone, just making these observations.

1. Since going "public", VoIPo has had some high-profile outages and system impairments. This things happen and it does seem that they're genuinely interested in resolving those issues. It does seem that the infrastructure needs significant further development.

2. There does seem to be a lot of excuses coming from VoIPo regarding their service problems. First it was Grandstream's fault, even though VoIPo picked the HT502 and then rolled out the suspect firmware upgrade and ignoring that other providers use the same model and firmware without problems. Then it was the consultant's fault that told them to use a Radius server even though ultimately it was VoIPo who implemented it. Then it was The Planet's fault for a datacenter outage but VoIPo picked The Planet to host their boxes then later decided to move away from it due to reliability problem (but that's not yet done).

3. Then there is the spectacular service that VoIPo apparently has. I suspect that sentiment is due at least in part to having the head of the company posting on these forums (and then possibly during the beta having access to those who were implementing the network for support). It seems a little hard for that to last forever: as VoIPo hopefully grows it doesn't seem likely that Tim will be able to provide direct support to every problem. We've seen some cracks already: during the HT502 fiasco, Tim posted that techs were ordering new boxes just to close out tickets and they had to stop many of the orders. Strange thing to post.

4. And now this business with the reviews. In the not to distant past, someone who posted what seemed to be a rather factual (but not positive) review had had a very public reaction by Tim in an attempt to prove the customer wrong (and to the rest of the public that Tim was right). That situation doesn't sit right with my feeling that you have to treat the customer right (even when they're wrong). Now we have solicitations of reviews to offset a couple (well earned) negative reviews.

I just don't know. I can't quite tell if VoIPo is the real deal or just a pretty facade.

You are certainly entitled to your observations, but in the world of VOIP, they may not have much meaning.
I have mentioned numerous times that I haven't had a land line in over 4 years. In spite of all your observations, and they may be correct to an observer, I hardly suffered during the entire crisis you outlined.
There are different levels of crises. I can't get too excited over an occasional blip any more than I get excited when my car battery dies or a pipe leaks in the kitchem or one of my PCs barfs. I deal with it. If the problems continue, I either find a different repair person or I replace the faulty parts.
VOIP is nothing more than a service for me. If it works to my satisfaction, great-if not I simply move on.
I believe all users should approach it this way instead of pontificating about the service...particularly if the speaker is not subscribed to that service.

"No one can please all the people all the time"..

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197172 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:38:09 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197144 said by burris:

said by unknvoip:

said by PX Eliezer:

What you just said is so true.

Too bad the frustrated users can't comprehend that.
I might as well have the Scarlet F on my chest I guess.

Service worked well, service was botchedd by the 502 upgrade, datacenter outages and the latency from the supposed "DDOS" attack. Prior to these things the service worked just as it should-extremely well. Soi I am to be ok with that and not ask questions and expect answers? You asked questions of VT all along but stuck with them until you got your buyout. I don't see why you did not take your own advice way back when Burris, or is it hard to see the forest through the trees?

The last outage thread for Voipo was started by you but they get a 100% reliability rating. Interesting.

I comprehend that it was working well, and then it wasn't due to nothing on my end changing.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197144 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:30:03 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197110 said by unknvoip:

said by PX Eliezer:

As we all know, no one VoIP service works 100% of the time for 100% of the people. VT has worked very well for me and based on the experience some others have had, I have decided not to move at this time to save a few pennies. Others have made a different decision and some have been happy while others frustrated.
What you just said is so true.

Too bad the frustrated users can't comprehend that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197110 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:14:19 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197084 said by PX Eliezer:

Wow. This forum is reminding me of the ViaTalk forum in the old days.

Ironically, the ViaTalk forum is relatively quiet these days.
Sort of like 'Deja vu, all over again'. There certainly are many parallels. I recently went back and reread a few threads from 3 years ago and was quite surprised at the similarities.

Yes the VT forums are quite. Except for a few crazies, not much going on over there - kind of nice actually.

As we all know, no one VoIP service works 100% of the time for 100% of the people. VT has worked very well for me and based on the experience some others have had, I have decided not to move at this time to save a few pennies. Others have made a different decision and some have been happy while others frustrated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22197084 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:03:49 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196214
Ironically, the ViaTalk forum is relatively quiet these days.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196214 Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:02:33 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196148
An aside... do you actually have to change something in the review to have it become "updated"? In other words, can you edit it, change nothing, and save and it goes to the top? If so that's an easily gamed system there.

Now, I am not a VoIPo customer. Instead, I am an observer. And here are a couple observations I've made. Let me make it clear that I'm not trying to influence anyone, just making these observations.

1. Since going "public", VoIPo has had some high-profile outages and system impairments. This things happen and it does seem that they're genuinely interested in resolving those issues. It does seem that the infrastructure needs significant further development.

2. There does seem to be a lot of excuses coming from VoIPo regarding their service problems. First it was Grandstream's fault, even though VoIPo picked the HT502 and then rolled out the suspect firmware upgrade and ignoring that other providers use the same model and firmware without problems. Then it was the consultant's fault that told them to use a Radius server even though ultimately it was VoIPo who implemented it. Then it was The Planet's fault for a datacenter outage but VoIPo picked The Planet to host their boxes then later decided to move away from it due to reliability problem (but that's not yet done).

3. Then there is the spectacular service that VoIPo apparently has. I suspect that sentiment is due at least in part to having the head of the company posting on these forums (and then possibly during the beta having access to those who were implementing the network for support). It seems a little hard for that to last forever: as VoIPo hopefully grows it doesn't seem likely that Tim will be able to provide direct support to every problem. We've seen some cracks already: during the HT502 fiasco, Tim posted that techs were ordering new boxes just to close out tickets and they had to stop many of the orders. Strange thing to post.

4. And now this business with the reviews. In the not to distant past, someone who posted what seemed to be a rather factual (but not positive) review had had a very public reaction by Tim in an attempt to prove the customer wrong (and to the rest of the public that Tim was right). That situation doesn't sit right with my feeling that you have to treat the customer right (even when they're wrong). Now we have solicitations of reviews to offset a couple (well earned) negative reviews.

I just don't know. I can't quite tell if VoIPo is the real deal or just a pretty facade. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196148 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:47:34 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196025
Chances are, the positive reviews posted were already positive. Given the recent past, I would not expect many reviews to be raised, but if people have had consistently good service, they would have updated the text in their posted reviews but would not have been able to raise the user ratings, because they were already at 5's.

:)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22196025 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:20:35 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195771 The kibble is bland, but here we go. You are seriously trying to sell us on the concept that, after editing one's online review to enter new information, narrative, and potentially altered user ratings across 6 different criteria, the review hasn't been "changed"? Really? Really?????

(The extra question marks mean I'm right. :) )

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195771 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:37:57 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195648 No Im not.

No one asked me to change anything about my review nor has anyone else been asked to do so.

But by misunderstanding the definition of a word in this way others could be inclined to believe the untrue. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195648 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:16:26 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195553 You're kidding, right?

-- B]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195553 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:01:26 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195182 quote:

Tim, with due respect, "updates" are the same thing as "changes" for all practical purposes. You're drawing a distinction without a difference. Asking someone to update / modify a review is asking them to change their review. The nature of the reviews here is chronological; whether or not a poster chooses to update is part of the independent database that your remarks may have tampered with...

The dictionary does not agree with you.

up⋅date
/v. ʌpˈdeɪt, ˈʌpˌdeɪt; n. ˈʌpˌdeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. uhp-deyt, uhp-deyt; n. uhp-deyt] Show IPA verb, -dat⋅ed, -dat⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to bring (a book, figures, or the like) up to date, as by adding new information or making corrections: to update a science textbook.
2. Computers. to incorporate new or more accurate information in (a database, program, procedure, etc.).
3. to bring (a person, organization, etc.) up to date on a particular subject: The magazine article will update you on the international situation.
–noun
4. an act or instance of updating: to make an update in a financial ledger.
5. information or data used in updating.
6. an updated version, model, or the like.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

"Change" Synonyms:
1. transmute, transform; vary, mutate; amend, modify. Change, alter both mean to make a difference in the state or condition of a thing or to substitute another state or condition. To change is to make a material difference so that the thing is distinctly different from what it was: to change one's opinion. To alter is to make some partial change, as in appearance, but usually to preserve the identity: to alter a dress (to change a dress would mean to put on a different one). 3. replace, trade. 4. trade. 7. convert. 10. vary, mutate, amend. 18. transmutation, mutation, conversion, vicissitude. 21. exchange. 25, 26. replacement.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22195182 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:00:21 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193406 you were a shill, you did. If you felt my statement didn't apply to you, then why address it?

I've always been someone that stands up and speaks my mind. I don't fall in line and join the crowd. I'm also not trying to change free will. Do as you wish. I am not the only person that sees the foolishness going on. I'll just choose to take the once respected members here with more of a grain of salt and not really take too much stock in their statements.

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193406 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:12:19 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193330 said by sgarrand:

It's not how good the service is but the change of attitude. From forum members that used to always push the envelope to people now that seem to regurgitate company buzzwords and absolutely tear anyone down who doesn't get in line. No service, no matter how good should change who you are or what you stand for. It's possible to be positive without being a total shill. It's possible to post a positive review without sounding like you're on the payroll. It's just disgusting, that's all.

Scott
And that sir is a totally subjective interpretation of our individual perspectives. I for one have had minor issues with the service. Most of my issues were brought to my attention by Voipo but at no time did I ever lose incoming or outgoing service.
As another poster stated, it really is all about your individual service provider, upstream speed, port filtering and forwarding issues which all account for the "weakest link in the chain syndrome".
I personally don't drink the Kool-Aid and posted my review because it HAD been a long time and Tim's reminder jogged my memory.
My special price that your are not privy to is actually more than the yearly price, except we get to go month-to-month.

So all I am saying is sometimes you just need to sit back and zip it up in matters that only concern you from a distance.
My review was honest, forthright and I spoke my mind, and I resent you implying that any of us are "shills" - because it would be no more accurate and spot if I called you an idiot based on my subjective view as opposed to a totally accurate and objective view of the situation.
:)
There are differences between subjective and objective and implied and inferred.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193330 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:00:06 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193043 said by VOIPoTim:

I know one poster made it sound like this is what we did, but as others have clarified it's not. We didn't suggest anyone change a review.

We just posted in our forums that it would be appreciated if people could update their reviews with current truthful info. Nothing more...nothing else.

...

There's nothing in either request that's unethical since it's simply asking for reviews/updates. If someone were suggesting changes be made, that would be a different story.
Tim, with due respect, "updates" are the same thing as "changes" for all practical purposes. You're drawing a distinction without a difference. Asking someone to update / modify a review is asking them to change their review. The nature of the reviews here is chronological; whether or not a poster chooses to update is part of the independent database that your remarks may have tampered with...

And surely you know that a user (or even "fanboy") suggesting review updates is far different from a CEO suggesting the same thing. Again, though, not a big deal...

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193043 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:11:53 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193019 said by Fisamo:

... I'm surprised at the extent of troubles experienced by Voipo customers since launch. Based on what I observed during the Beta period, I believe they will stabilize and have an excellent product. That vision just hasn't been realized as quickly as anyone expected. And that is why I have remainded a customer. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193019 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:07:24 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193016
Most settings will change with time. Like web site, reliability, tech support. You get the idea. Voip companies seem to go through phases. The only thing that probably shouldn't change once posted is the Ease of installation. Its either was plug and play 100% or you had problems that required trouble tickets or asking for help in forums. So it ends up at 60% depending on how much trouble and what type of problems you encountered.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22193016 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:07:02 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192983 said by B:

This really strikes me as a tempest in a teapot situation, and I've never cared about the feared and much maligned "GBU" list. That said, it's not great form to ask people to change their comments about you on another site. The comments and reviews should stand on their own and reflect the motivations and intent of the posters, up to and including whether to update the posts at all. The whole point of an independent accumulation of reviews is that it's independent, in theory anyhow...

-- B
Well said. For what it's worth, DSLR does remind people to update their review every several months (6?). But that is still maintains independence vs a provider soliciting updates to reviews.

But yes, tempest-in-teapot situation. I'm sure this episode has pushed the opinions of some in the negative direction--probably more negative than positive. Clearly, though, the balance of reviews has been weighted to the positive side.

It is good that everyone, including those who have been less satisfied, have updated.

Just one more comment about the following Voipo has built--it hasn't exactly been unearned. The customer service during the beta period was truly outstanding, and that has continued after the beta. The beta participants got to provide input to the service and essentially see the start of the business. The reliability during the beta period was excellent, and the expectations expressed by some of a trouble-free launch were unrealistic. That said, I'm surprised at the extent of troubles experienced by Voipo customers since launch. Based on what I observed during the Beta period, I believe they will stabilize and have an excellent product. That vision just hasn't been realized as quickly as anyone expected.

On the bright side, Voipo has been communicative when issues have come up, and they've offered professional support throughout the recent challenges. BTW, I do agree with those whose response to that is, "I should not need support to the extent that I am reminded how good they are every day."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192983 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:00:37 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192937 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192937 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:52:56 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192920 said by B:

This really strikes me as a tempest in a teapot situation, and I've never cared about the feared and much maligned "GBU" list. That said, it's not great form to ask people to change their comments about you on another site. The comments and reviews should stand on their own and reflect the motivations and intent of the posters, up to and including whether to update the posts at all. The whole point of an independent accumulation of reviews is that it's independent, in theory anyhow...

-- B
I know one poster made it sound like this is what we did, but as others have clarified it's not. We didn't suggest anyone change a review.

We just posted in our forums that it would be appreciated if people could update their reviews with current truthful info. Nothing more...nothing else.

I specifically even mentioned truthful in the request.

The OP of this thread actually even posted in the Voicepulse forum suggesting Voicepulse users update their reviews twice: »VoicePulse

There's nothing in either request that's unethical since it's simply asking for reviews/updates. If someone were suggesting changes be made, that would be a different story.

There is nothing wrong with asking for reviews and keeping reviews current.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192920 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:49:46 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192851
With the 502's out of service (yes I have given up) and the new datacenter things will be back to where they were prior to all of this mess-solid working phone service.

Yes, it is generous to offer some of us full refunds, but for me I have used the service and should I decide to throw in the towel I will abide by the ToS I signed up to and only get the amount that is pro-rated.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192851 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:39:57 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192746
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192746 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:26:29 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192617
None have taken advantage of it.

At the end of the day, the service will never work well for 1% of customers and we don't want to provide service to someone if they're continuing to have issues over and over.

With that being said, I don't understand why those customers continue to post day after day about problems yet refuse to cancel when I suggest that may be the best bet and offer to cancel the service making an exception to the standard prorated refund policy and issuing a full refund. It seems like if they were having so many issues, they'd take advantage of it.

We've tried to reach out to anyone having issues to resolve them or have them move on, but we can't help people who refuse help or refuse to cancel when we tell them they are in the 1% that will have issues. Again, contact tim @ voipo.com if you're continuing to experience issues.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192617 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:03:37 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192435 said by dcm:

said by ptrowski:

I just wonder how some can be 100's across the board when there has been issues mentioned by them. If there is downtime there is downtime. To me 100% is no downtime experienced.

I questioned the same thing. I also questioned how Ooma users can rate Value for Money at 100% when I don't think anyone has all the numbers necessary (equipment cost / # months of service + premier, if applicable) to figure the true monthly/yearly cost.
That's how I would have done the Ooma review had I been a subscriber.

While I like customer specific forums, DSLR has been my main place to discuss VoIP etc as you can get input on not only technical matters but contract terms, business dealings etc. Plus Voipo does have representation here also, so it makes it an easier stop.

I have also posted my thoughts in the customer forums also.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192435 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:35:30 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192275
For some of you it seems hard to believe that for most, the service seems to be working to their satisfaction.
Maybe for some first time VOIP users, they have no reference, but for many of us, and I'm sure we don't have any special preference as to how our calls are routed, the service works well.
I mentioned that I haven't had a land line in over 4 years, and I'm sure I have pretty good knowledge about how a telephone service should work, and I'm pleased.
The day I no longer have phone service, I will first find another service and then in my spare time, post about my experiences.
The gbu program is not too accurate, but it's not for me to criticize others who post reviews or their reasons for doing so. I don't preach morality, as it differs among the masses.
Instead of bashing those who post reviews, why not take your complaints directly to the source, so the provider can respond. Posting in an open forum may make you feel good, but if indeed you have a correctable problem, it won't help much..
Voipo has its own forum...why not use it?

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192275 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:14:05 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192185 said by ptrowski:

I just wonder how some can be 100's across the board when there has been issues mentioned by them. If there is downtime there is downtime. To me 100% is no downtime experienced.
I questioned the same thing. I also questioned how Ooma users can rate Value for Money at 100% when I don't think anyone has all the numbers necessary (equipment cost / # months of service + premier, if applicable) to figure the true monthly/yearly cost.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192185 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:57:42 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192057 said by ptrowski:

I just wonder how some can be 100's across the board when there has been issues mentioned by them. If there is downtime there is downtime. To me 100% is no downtime experienced.

But everyone reviews differently I guess.
I agree - when management has acknowledged that there have been issues this past week which have impacted service, for several reviewers to rate 100% across the board is puzzling. To put it politely, those reviewers have lost credibility in my eyes. I've always looked at reviews skeptically and this episode has not changed my views - I find public and private forum traffic considerably more useful.

I congratulate Tim and his organization for acknowledging and fixing issues (just as I complimented him when he offered a credit some time back). I wish him and other providers of such service the best of luck in providing a solid infrastructure - the more good companies there are (up to a limit) the better for us.
--
Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192057 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:37:59 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192019
Seems the problems are always people with improperly configured byod loops. Datacenter latency, datacenter going down and bad firmwares.

Weekends always have zero problems. Makes me wonder if its not some kind of capacity/scaling problem.

So far Voipo has been by far the worst voip provider I have had. But ironically I am having the most fun with it studying it and trying to figure out whats going on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22192019 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:29:53 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191952
Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191952 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:20:33 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191929 I am truly sorry your having issues.

Hard to see though how any of us that are not having them could be referred to as "blindly following".

Maybe Im selfish that way but as long as things are good here Im gonna say so. And I think anyone else should also.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191929 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:48 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191925
I just wonder how some can be 100's across the board when there has been issues mentioned by them. If there is downtime there is downtime. To me 100% is no downtime experienced.

But everyone reviews differently I guess.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191925 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:15:42 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191872
Consider this: When I had QV and all was well I loved them. Reps of theirs were in personal contact with me and the service was flawless for years. Still, I never lost my discerning taste.

When all of my problems go away you won't hear a bad word on that. I will still question all the blind followers I used to respect so much.

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191872 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:06:49 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191824 Couple of bad episodes in the time Ive had it. You think I should join you in your crusade?

If I was having problems with the service that were ongoing and unresolved, Id jump ship. But Voipo just works for me. And Id say the use here is on the heavy end.

No existing problems here. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191824 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 11:59:13 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191382
I'd be willing to bet most of you don't even use it enough to experience the problems others have. Hell, I hardly use it but I still have some issues. I paid $135 for the year so I'm not really pushing the issue. When the year is up I'll go elsewhere because I don't want to hassle for a refund (pay yearly rate, charges prorated as higher MONTHLY rate) or pay the startup costs for another provider.

We all make decisions in life. I guess I'm just a little bitter that a bunch of my fellow longtime DSLR/BBR users lost their gusto in favor of the flavor of the week. :)

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191382 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:42:41 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191326 said by sgarrand:

I never said it was dishonest to post positive reviews. I understand there are people whose service works.

To solicit them for the purpose of weighting a "chart" that gives people an overall impression of the company is dishonest. Reviews and updates should be done by users when they want to, not when the cult leader says so. Speaking of cult members, burris, you must've gotten promises of future stock options or something.

Scott
You really do have this fixation with the cult routine.. :p

Why is your theory that users should only review when they want to? In my case, I hadn't even thought about updating my review until I was reminded. What is wrong with that?

Am I interested in the provider I have chosen to succeed...you bet. If people are pleased with the service, they might post a positive review...If not, then they pan the service.
Think about what Belkin just went through when it was discovered that some of their employees were stacking the deck. I don't think that's true in this case.
Didn't we touch upon the fact that most people have no idea about reviews...or where they are...that they have to register with DSLReports to even do so. If I were TIM, I might have sent an email to all the users, explaining the advantages of DSLReports and asking those that 'want to', to post a review. The greater majority of users don't even belong to the cult, so how would their reviews tally?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191326 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:34:09 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191148
To solicit them for the purpose of weighting a "chart" that gives people an overall impression of the company is dishonest. Reviews and updates should be done by users when they want to, not when the cult leader says so. Speaking of cult members, burris, you must've gotten promises of future stock options or something. :)

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191148 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:01:50 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191084 said by Bill44130:

Fisamo, The issue really was caused by sgarrand neglecting to put all the information in his post. When these things came out I think the "brouhaha" kind of died.

I guess there is a fine line some place. It isn't up to me to decide if the line was crossed or not.

If you made a promise to some one you should always keep your word.
Actually, it is up to you to decide if the line was crossed. Just keep an open mind to the reality that others will come to a different conclusion than you will. :)

As your comment about the promise--you're right. I've let that one slide for too long. I'll probably add detail to the review in a later update, but I should get something posted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191084 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 09:47:10 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191060 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22191060 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 09:41:53 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190516 said by sgarrand:

I was trying to be as fair as possible but obviously Tim's intent was not to solicit negative reviews. By asking in their own forums he was more likely to get a favorable audience.

Forgive me if I insinuated too much or left too much to interpretation.

I'd love to post a glowing review but I'm still getting noise during calls and people hearing themselves echo back to them when I use VOIPo. I'm trying all sorts of things like adjusting gain, various echo suppression settings, different servers, you name it.

Scott
Why do you think that thousands of others with the same provider are not having the problems that you are having?
Others in various parts of the country, routing through the same servers, most likely utilizing some of the same equipment as yours, seem to have no problems at all. So, if that is true, then why is it dishonest for them to post positive reviews?

I spent a lifetime in business and always believed that any company that was afraid to ask its customers.."How Are We Doing", was on the wrong track.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190516 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 05:56:09 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190046
Forgive me if I insinuated too much or left too much to interpretation.

I'd love to post a glowing review but I'm still getting noise during calls and people hearing themselves echo back to them when I use VOIPo. I'm trying all sorts of things like adjusting gain, various echo suppression settings, different servers, you name it.

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190046 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:46:35 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190010
"He figured the GBU weighs more heavily on updated reviews so he wanted to see the scale tip the other way."

After seeing that it kind of ticked me off. Forgot the previous sentence.

Like I said there is a fine line here. Its not my place to decide. Thank goodness for that. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22190010 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:29:31 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189927
My words were as follows:

"He didn't ask for positive or false reviews but he did ask the community to update their reviews because the recent negative reviews carried more weight by being updated often."

Scott
--
My web site is WhyTheHell.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189927 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:06:45 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189864
I guess there is a fine line some place. It isn't up to me to decide if the line was crossed or not.

If you made a promise to some one you should always keep your word. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189864 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:48:31 EDT Re: [General] Reviews http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189421 said by Bill44130:

PX, There is absolutely nothing wrong with people updating their reviews in general. Like I said previously, I even had a system message that asked me to update my reviews and it even gave me the link to my reviews.

glabble876 and burris, This forum is not about politics or having a interest in a companies survival. If the companies owner "willfully" is trying to skewer the gbu then I view that as dishonesty. It would be no more honest if I gave a horrible review and I am not even a customer. DSLR should be protecting the integrity of the gbu, and disqualify the updates.

What is wrong with earning a good review. The gbu should be protected by the owners of this site.
Bill, you make a great point here. What's almost completely missing in this thread (almost, because chpalmer

stated it after you posted) is the fact that when Tim asked people to update their reviews, he explicitly asked for honest (whether good or bad) feedback.

Does that make the request any "better"? I'm sure plenty will say no, because such a request is sure to net more POSITIVE reviews than negative ones. Does it skew the weighting in the GBU? Apparently so (but I'm not privvy to the details of their weighting algorithm). On the flip side, Tim did mention that one or two users who are/were having trouble were updating their reviews frequently, artificially deflating the ranking.

In any case, every review system has its flaws, and people have batted around the 'validity' of the GBU system for at least the past five years...

Regardless, I still owe Tim a review--I promised one a few months ago. But with the current brouhaha, maybe I'll wait until the next GBU period... :D

But to give a preview:
Website: 3 - vPanel is plain, I'd like more checkboxes, checkboxes/radio buttons instead of dropdowns for binary features, more prominent voicemail, better contact input system.
Ease of Installation: [unranked] I participated in the beta and continue BYOD. I know what I'm doing for configuring my account, and if there's a glitch, it's usually on my end. ;) Therefore, it's not appropriate for me to rate this aspect of their service.
Call Quality: 5 - All calls have been clear. Not much more to say there. :)
Reliability: [Unranked] - OK, admittedly a cop out, but I don't use the line enough to give a fair assessment. If a gun were to my head and I HAD to choose a number, I'd probably give a 3/5 due to the complaints of issues (and acknowledgement of Voipo staff/owner) with the hope (and expectation) of raising it over the next month or two.
Tech Support: 9 - Unfortunately, I can't really give them a 9, I'm limited to 5. They've always been extremely responsive and the responses are substantive, not vacant script-reading in nature.
Overall Value: 4 - Sorry, can't earn a 5 with reliability at a 3 (even though I haven't "officially" ranked it).
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-General-Reviews-22189421 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:09:39 EDT