| | also more stupid now instead of a murky IP
they get TPB's records and HAVE exact match WHOM YOU ARE
BUSTED.
HAHAHAHA | |
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 | | Re: also more stupid Which part of "we are not keeping records, we are not logging anything" don't you get? | |
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 | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: also more stupid said by Dubon:Which part of "we are not keeping records, we are not logging anything" don't you get? Thats just the cover story the NSA and the SSS told us to tell you fools. | |
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|  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | said by Dubon:Which part of "we are not keeping records, we are not logging anything" don't you get? Every transaction you do with a credit card leaves a trail. While TPB 'might' not keep records (I am not sure how thats possible when they are processing CC's...), your credit card company will have a full record of the amount you paid and to whom.
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 | Re: also more stupid Hard of PayPal?  | |
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| | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid Which is also in no way anonymous.....
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | I could be wrong, what with not being a lawyer and all, but I didn't think buying VPN service was illegal. | |
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| | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by dda:I could be wrong, what with not being a lawyer and all, but I didn't think buying VPN service was illegal. Its not, but just like how 99% of credit card companies stopped allowing charges to allofmp3.com the exact same thing could happen here. Furthermore, if criminal allegations ARE brought against TPB or a group of users, a simple warrant issued by a judge to the credit card companies (who ARE based in the US) will reveal your full name and address, along with a history of your payments. If you thought an IP address could get you into trouble, just wait for full spreadsheet of your charges to be handed over by Visa!
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | Re: also more stupid I'm still not a lawyer but I suspect while such a list will include your name and address, it still doesn't prove you're doing anything illegal; they still have to show that you have violated copyright law. Knowing where to start looking (e.g. a list of those who signed up for this service) is a start but it is far from conclusive evidence of anything other than a desire for an VPN service. | |
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| | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by dda:I'm still not a lawyer but I suspect while such a list will include your name and address, it still doesn't prove you're doing anything illegal; they still have to show that you have violated copyright law. Knowing where to start looking (e.g. a list of those who signed up for this service) is a start but it is far from conclusive evidence of anything other than a desire for an VPN service. Nope, here is a better example of why. A car service is selling drugs using their service as a front so they can accept credit cards (true story as crazy as it sounds!). The feds figure out whats going on, and then they request all the customer info from the credit card companies. They then go through and interview ALL of the people who charged money to the "car service", under suspicion of having violated state and federal laws. While I dont think many of the end users wound up in jail (most probably flipped on the drug dealer), they needed to prove themselves and likely had their lives turned upside down by the authorities for a while.
Here is another example (in case you say some of the car rides could have been valid). A known illegal gambling operation (or whorehouse, take your pick) is busted during a raid. The police confiscate the credit card processing equipment (again, true story...some DO allow credit cards!) and request the user info. As their is clearly no legal reason one should have CC charges at an illegal facility, each person then has a choice; flip or get locked up....
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | Re: also more stupid said by wifi4milez:As their [sic] is clearly no legal reason one should have CC charges at an illegal facility, each person then has a choice; flip or get locked up.... The flaw here is that I believe TPB has lots o' torrents for such legal things as ISO distributions and batches of pictures (I've some great pictures of various cars I'll never have a pray of affording using torrents from there); it still comes down to someone proving *I* broke the law.
Now, I don't know a lot about this VPN service so perhaps it only connects to TPB and only allows searches of "illegal" torrents; if so, it does sound pretty stupid.  | |
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| | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by dda:it still comes down to someone proving *I* broke the law. The onus is just as much on you to prove that you didnt however, especially if documents are subpoenaed by a court. Look at the people who were wrongly accused of downloading content and had to go to court to fight it. Now imagine they have your credit cards tied to that transaction....I certainly wouldnt want to be in that position!
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | | | | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | Re: also more stupid said by wifi4milez:The onus is just as much on you to prove that you didnt however, especially if documents are subpoenaed by a court. Er, no. You cannot prove a negative and the onus is (or should be!) very much on them to prove you broke the law. Having "probable cause" or a suspicion that you did something wrong helps but, in the end, if there is no evidence of wrong-doing, it's worth fighting.
If someone asks me why I would pay money to have a private VPN connection to TPB, all I (should) have to do is show them my collection of "cars I'll never afford but like looking at" and posts about how Comcast throttles torrents and say I don't want to have to put up with the latter to get the former.
Of course, justice isn't perfect but suspicion should never be the same as proof. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by dda:said by wifi4milez:The onus is just as much on you to prove that you didnt however, especially if documents are subpoenaed by a court. Er, no. You cannot prove a negative and the onus is (or should be!) very much on them to prove you broke the law. Having "probable cause" or a suspicion that you did something wrong helps but, in the end, if there is no evidence of wrong-doing, it's worth fighting. You just contradicted yourself with that statement. Its been pointed out time and time agian on this website that you can be accused of pirating, and that it becomes YOUR issue to prove otherwise. I am not saying you wont win in court, however spending time and money on an attorney is a real pain in the neck.
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: also more stupid wifi4milez
You keep ignoring the obvious. IF you get a prepaid credit card (every Walmart sells them) bought with cash, there is no money trail. PB is charging monthly so they have no need to keep any records as to what IP a user is coming from and they have said that they will not keep such records. Now if you cannot tie activity to an IP and there is no money trail, how are you going to track them? There are legal uses for PB so you cannot say that just becuase there is a link from your machine to PB that any illegal activity is going on. Because PB has gone to court and not settled, they have a reputation that the community can and will trust. | |
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| | | | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by Lazlow:wifi4milez You keep ignoring the obvious. IF you get a prepaid credit card (every Walmart sells them) bought with cash, there is no money trail. Agreed, however at what point does the effort required to pirate make it no longer worth your time?
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: also more stupid That is just it. The effort is still minimal. Putting $7(or whatever the actual price is) on a prepaid CC is not much of an effort. Most of us go to Walmart(or other similiar store) at least once a month. Is the extra two minutes it requires to put money on the card really significant? | |
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| | | | | | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by Lazlow:That is just it. The effort is still minimal. Putting $7(or whatever the actual price is) on a prepaid CC is not much of an effort. Most of us go to Walmart(or other similiar store) at least once a month. Is the extra two minutes it requires to put money on the card really significant? I guess its more the principle of the whole thing. You are now willing to pay money in order to steal content, and if thats your thing then cheers.
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | Re: also more stupid There you go making assumptions again.
"You are now willing to pay money in order to steal content,"
I do not p2p.
Insert usual discussion on infringement vs stealing.
Depending on how it is implemented TB's product could also be used to circumvent Australia's (and other countries) goofy black lists (post anonymous in general). | |
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| | | | | | | | | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | said by wifi4milez:You just contradicted yourself with that statement. I don't see how I contradicted myself; I've always maintained that (at least in the US), you're innocent until proven guilty. I also know that nothing is perfect and there are plenty of miscarriages of justice so yes, in the end, if someone comes knocking on my door, I'm going to get an attorney (which I'm not) and fight it. | |
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| |  OmegaDisplaced OhioanPremium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY | said by wifi4milez:said by Dubon:Which part of "we are not keeping records, we are not logging anything" don't you get? Every transaction you do with a credit card leaves a trail. While TPB 'might' not keep records (I am not sure how thats possible when they are processing CC's...), your credit card company will have a full record of the amount you paid and to whom. Doesn't mean you are guilty of anything. | |
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| | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: also more stupid said by Omega:said by wifi4milez:said by Dubon:Which part of "we are not keeping records, we are not logging anything" don't you get? Every transaction you do with a credit card leaves a trail. While TPB 'might' not keep records (I am not sure how thats possible when they are processing CC's...), your credit card company will have a full record of the amount you paid and to whom. Doesn't mean you are guilty of anything. Thats correct, however as I replied to the other poster you entire payment history, including your name, CC number, and address will be easily available if requested by a judge. For those who are looking to pirate anonymously, this could possibly be the stupidest idea ever.
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: also more stupid Just use a prepaid credit card that you paid cash for. No money trail. | |
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| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: also more stupid said by Lazlow:Just use a prepaid credit card that you paid cash for. No money trail. Illegal under Patriot act to have a CC or a bank account without proof of identity. | |
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| | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: also more stupid It may be illegal but almost every walmart (and tons of other places) sell them that way. | |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | said by chronoss2009:now instead of a murky IP they get TPB's records and HAVE exact match WHOM YOU ARE BUSTED. HAHAHAHA oh ya! gimme somma that!
faced with subpoena they'll roll over on ya.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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