ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| T.I.A.
This is where the country is heading. We have nobody to blame except ourselves 
We the people elected these guys into office. |
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Time
Premium
join:2003-07-05
 ·Dish Network
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Embarq
| said by ninjatutle  :This is where the country is heading. We have nobody to blame except ourselves We the people elected these guys into office. And continue to elect these individuals into office.
Did you people really believe things were going to be different? |
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Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY
·New Wave Communica..
·Windstream
| reply to ninjatutle
I hate to say it.. but I actually agree.
This is why democracy sucks. The majority rules. Now if we still had a republic, maybe things would be different.. but then again,maybe if the south would have won?
Eh.. anyways, enough with my tangents.. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | There are two inaccuracies in your post, kind of.. 1) we are not a "democracy"... and 2) Majority doesn't always rule here.  |
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ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to ninjatutle
What the hell happened to this country 
9.75% sales tax here for crying out loud. Freedom sure ain't free. It cost a lot of money and lives  |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to fiberguy
Actually, I believe you failed to understand his viewpoint.
He knows we are technically a Republic, but calls us a "democracy" (his quotation marks) to denote that when the masses realized they could send people to Washington to take other people's money and give it to them, we ceased being a Republic, and devolved to some sort of organized mob rule....
Nero fiddles as Rome burns, the emperor has no clothes and in the end, Obama is little, if at all different than his predecessor.
At least his flubs were his own, this guy has to get his from a Teleprompter.
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| reply to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle :What the hell happened to this country What happened to this country is that a lot of people started thinking that shit is free and doesn't cost money.
Defense, roads, schools....stuff costs money. You don't want to pay taxes?...move to Saudi Arabia where oil money pays for everything.
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»www.Digium.com |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by kapil :Defense, roads, schools....stuff costs money. You don't want to pay taxes?...move to Saudi Arabia where oil money pays for everything. Can't move there unless you can prove citizenship to before oil was discovered. |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| said by patcat88 :Can't move there unless you can prove citizenship to before oil was discovered. Don't worry, they make exceptions for the mega-rich, so there's still hope. |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17 | reply to patcat88
Or unless you can prove oil drips out your ass. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to kapil
said by kapil :Defense, roads, schools....stuff costs money. You don't want to pay taxes?...move to Saudi Arabia where oil money pays for everything. Amen to that.
According to the IRS, half of all income earners pay almost all income tax collected. Perhaps the half that only pays a pittance should endure a tax hike so that these things can be paid for.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| said by pnh102 :Amen to that. According to the IRS, half of all income earners pay almost all income tax collected. Perhaps the half that only pays a pittance should endure a tax hike so that these things can be paid for. You won't find me arguing against that. Everyone who earns an income should pay taxes. I'd even be okay with a flat tax rate for all income levels...as long as there are other social programs to help the needy.
Those who can afford to pay more, should.
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»www.Digium.com |
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Killa200
Premium
join:2005-12-02
Spring City, TN | reply to ninjatutle
meh, sales tax has been like that here for years |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to kapil
said by kapil :I'd even be okay with a flat tax rate for all income levels A "flat tax" is a myth. Even those who propose "flat taxes" propose a minimum income level for the "flat tax" to apply. In other words, that's two rates: 0% and 15% for anyone earning $12k per year.
So, even flat taxers validate the principle of progressive taxation.
Next, it's just a matter of *how* progressive the taxation should be. For example, why should $11k be "essential" for a "basic" standard of living. But, $13k shouldn't?
Taking it a step further, why should a new Ford Fiesta every 7 years, Mac N Cheese, a basic tract home, and basic medical services be as just as "essential" as a Ferrari, caviar, a McMansion and botox treatments?
Flat taxers do themselves in because they use the principle of flat taxation -- and hope nobody will notice that they're really proposing progressive taxation that isn't very progressive (with no principle to support their position).
I haven't seen any flat taxer propose a truly *flat* tax that would apply to the first dollar earned. Probably because it wouldn't be popular. So, if we're going to have progressive taxation -- we might as well consider the progressivity of "essential" and "basic."
Mark |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to Core0000
said by Core0000 :This is why democracy sucks. The majority rules. Now if we still had a republic, maybe things would be different.. Can you describe the difference between a republic and democracy? I hear people make insinuations all the time. But, for a republic to exist it must have been constituted by popular will, and continue to exist by the continued assent of the people. That sounds like "democracy" (the popular will of a past and present generation).
Likewise, republics always provide a means to amend themselves. For example, we have an amendment process. That too is based upon popular will (democracy).
A pure democracy would be where everyone takes a vote on every single issue. And (or) it wouldn't be impeded by various requirements to change the law.
We don't have either of those (with representative democracy, and a constitution requiring states to ratify constitutional amendments).
So, I never understand what people mean about how we're supposed to be a "republic."
said by Core0000 :but then again, maybe if the south would have won? We'd still have slavery?
We'd be under German and/or Japanese occupation (because we wouldn't have responded to WWI and II the way we did)?
We'd have more civil wars, as Missouri attacked Illinois over pollution, or the changing boundaries of the Mississippi river?
Yeah. Let's go back to the "good old days." It sounds so fetching.
Mark |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :Actually, I believe you failed to understand his viewpoint. He knows we are technically a Republic, but calls us a "democracy" (his quotation marks) to denote that when the masses realized they could send people to Washington to take other people's money and give it to them, we ceased being a Republic, and devolved to some sort of organized mob rule.... I never assume that people know that and the quotes didn't give me indication when he backed it up by saying "majority rules".. It's amazing how many people DO believe we are a democracy and not a democratic republic as we elect our representatives and don't get a direct vote. There is a difference and many don't know it. They here the word "democracy" and apply the wrong definition.
...and.. to your other point.. Obama is an idiot! |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
| reply to N3OGH
said by N3OGH :calls us a "democracy" (his quotation marks) to denote that when the masses realized they could send people to Washington to take other people's money and give it to them, we ceased being a Republic, and devolved to some sort of organized mob rule.... I have a funny feeling that you don't include taking the land of Native Americans (or imposing a system of slavery) within the meaning of "when the masses realized ..."
It seems like those who make a distinction about "democracy" and "republic" do so very selectively. Usually when it's their ox being gored -- as they live comfortably within a democratic republic established on the premise of never-ending frontiers, and "manifest destiny" (to take land from others).
Mark |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :Even those who propose "flat taxes" propose a minimum income level for the "flat tax" to apply. In other words, that's two rates: 0% and 15% for anyone earning $12k per year. So if I explain it as "the threshold below which the cost of processing the tax forms is greater than the resulting tax proceeds", does that fix it?
The reason the flat tax will not be established is the long history of exceptions. Everyone wants to be special, not the same as everybody else. |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to amigo_boy
Sorry, I wasn't around 150 years ago to throw smallpox infected blankets to Native American peoples in order to participate in "manifest destiny". My people came off the potato boat 2 generations ago and were greeted by signs in shop windows that stated "no Irish need apply".
Regardless of your origins, we all have some sort of transgression in our heritages. One Native American tribe warred with, and conquered another. The Germans oppressed the Polish, the English oppressed the Irish, the French laid down for everyone, and African tribesman sold the rival tribes they conquered into slavery.
So save your righteous indignation for someone else, eh?
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 :Amen to that. According to the IRS, half of all income earners pay almost all income tax collected. Perhaps the half that only pays a pittance should endure a tax hike so that these things can be paid for. Now there's a really stupid idea, increase taxes on the working poor so the only ways they can survive are welfare or crime. Guess you want even higher taxes if you don't want the working poor to be able to support themselves. |
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