Topic 'Re: Now isn't the time...' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241023 en Sun, 19 May 2013 13:38:15 EDT Sun, 19 May 2013 13:38:15 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22250530
»www.hkbn.net/index_e.htm]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22250530 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:59:22 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22248083
So, most are forced to use their network. Also, the idea that this is for QoS is ridiculous. They just need to upgrade their network to compete with that of Japan! Seriously... 100mbps on average, where as we get about 3 on average... its pathetic.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22248083 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:49:39 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22247961 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22247961 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:26:02 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22246489 said by mod_wastrel:

Actually, "you"--as in every customer of the franchise did pay for it. The amount of profit, let alone revenue, generated from customers has many-times-over paid for "their" network. But you're right: you aren't "required" to use their service (and you aren't required to access the Internet). However, you may be required to pay for its support by way of your tax dollars going to the franchise (though you can expect most of that money will go into the pockets of executives and investors--which one are you?).
AMEN to that!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22246489 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:34:27 EDT Re: Building out our own network - great idea http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Building-out-our-own-network-great-idea-22246347 said by hottboiinnc:

... They sued when it started to come down to tax-payer money. You have choices, I have choices, if you don't like the choices, change providers or BUILD OUT your own network. And thanks to VZ fiber is getting cheaper.EXCELLENT! That's just what we as a community should be able to do without some outsiders sticking their noses in our local home rule government.

Our community has local government owned and controlled schools, water, sewer, streets, traffic control, emergency medical services, street lighting, law enforcement and fire protection. We also spend taxpayer money to build out this infrastructure and capacity to attract and retain businesses and encourage residential growth.

So, it should be our choice if we as taxpayers want to include internet infrastructure in our package of public services for our schools libraries and public facilities, and to attract and protect business, residential and economic growth.

VZ fiber hasn't made one whit of a difference here, since they aren't and won't be here in the foreseeable future. So, we should have the right to use our own local tax money to build our own services without you folks telling us how to run our community and spend our tax money.
--
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Building-out-our-own-network-great-idea-22246347 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:07:24 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245829
So which is it? They either did it all by them self, or they were "given" a revenue stream to make their company capable of deploying the service and expanding and thus become the PoS monopoly / duopoly they are.

Once you figure that one out, then you can explain to the rest of us how it was they needed to be given this incentive to create the original networks, but yet you now claim just anybody can come on in to this industry without these benefits to create competition. So in the beginning when there was no competition it was harder to get going than now when there is already a duopoly / monopoly AND competition? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245829 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:37:49 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245588 Can someone identify/source this image? I want to use it in future projects.

NM, found it! And it's in the public domain! It's listed in the Book of Old New York. Henry Collins Brown. 1913.

Fascinating article is here. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245588 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:49:18 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245179 said by hottboiinnc:

That's google. Hell I would have done the same with Google as much bullshit they do. Can't use Google Voice for voicemail but yet they market the product for that? Com'on.
So anyone can setup their own network unless it is someone you don't like? :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245179 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 08:00:43 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245002 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22245002 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:15:46 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22244907 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22244907 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:01:29 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243956 said by hottboiinnc:

In Ohio you can. All it takes is $2000 and you can install what you want.

But then again you should know this since it was posted on here back when ATT changed the laws.Nonsense. AT&T pushed specifically to keep CLEC's out of RT's and DSLAMS.

You could put Equipment in a CO, but that's the extent of your build out.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243956 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:44:35 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243900
So what were the wires used for in the late 1700's?
If it is the late 19th century, how about a real pic?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243900 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:34:29 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242459 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242459 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 21:53:28 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243236
This is an illustration of how New York looked in the late 19th century when, in fact, anyone could build their own network. Lots of startup phone companies, all stringing their own wire. Telephone poles had dozens of cross bars. It soon became clear that this wasn't going to work: ungainly, uggggly, and lots of duplicated work. It was recognized that the wiring of a city is an example of what is called a natural monopoly. In recognition of this fact, locations granted a single company the right to wire that city...this lead to the Ma Bell monopoly. In exchange for the right to build and own the network (and limits on who could compete...nowdays called a franchise), there were certain restrictions placed on the monopoly company.

The modern situation has not changed that much. The nature of the network is different (it's all about data now and not circuit switched telephone networks), but the natural monopoly still exists in some form (in many locations it's a duopoly: ILEC and cable franchise).

It's clearly within the public's right to impose certain conditions on any grant of a license to operate a franchise. To say that it's the companies' network to do with as they see fit is wrong, ignorant of history and the legal environment within which these companies operate.

[edit to correct "18th century" with "19th century".]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243236 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:39:05 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243011 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243011 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:50:25 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243008
Perhaps it's time these ISPs are regulated like public and private utilities so they have to pass these increases only after PUC approval.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243008 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:49:43 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243002 said by hottboiinnc:

They can do what they want with THEIR network. You are free to build your own and service customers the way you want. Nobody is making you use TWC or any other carrier. The lack of competition forces me to use a particular network.

I just finished a move from Hillsboro, Oregon to Washington, DC. My broadband choices in both places: Verizon DSL or Comcast.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- World Traveller -- KJ7RL
... Do something! ...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243002 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:48:40 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243000 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22243000 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:48:19 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242990 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242990 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:46:49 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242985
The gov't isn't going to tell them what flavor water to have in their cafeteria but they can certainly investigate them suddenly instituting caps with the obvious goal of controlling online video competition or blackmailing content providers into paying a bounty to reach their customers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242985 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:45:13 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242965 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242965 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:39:59 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242957 You're joking right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sorry, It's just so funny that you used those two companies as an example for high speed internet and caps...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242957 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:38:37 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242823 did pay for it. The amount of profit, let alone revenue, generated from customers has many-times-over paid for "their" network. But you're right: you aren't "required" to use their service (and you aren't required to access the Internet). However, you may be required to pay for its support by way of your tax dollars going to the franchise (though you can expect most of that money will go into the pockets of executives and investors--which one are you?).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242823 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:08:47 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242526 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242526 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:10:27 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242513 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242513 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:09:12 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242503
And by the way since when is it a law that says what they have to give you and how they have to give it? I don't remember seeing that one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242503 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:07:50 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242497 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242497 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:06:56 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242486 said by patcat88:

said by ropeguru:

I think we all need to petition hottboiinnc See Profile's provider to start charging him $2.50 per KB. Then when he complains we can tell HIM to build his own network.
Oh come on, first class mail is cheaper at 2KB per 1 side of 8x11 paper.
Maybe so, but remember that it is their network and they can do with it whatever they want.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242486 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:05:52 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242483
But then again you should know this since it was posted on here back when ATT changed the laws.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242483 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:05:32 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242477 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242477 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:04:15 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242413 said by ropeguru:

I think we all need to petition hottboiinnc See Profile's provider to start charging him $2.50 per KB. Then when he complains we can tell HIM to build his own network.
Oh come on, first class mail is cheaper at 2KB per 1 side of 8x11 paper.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242413 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:52:59 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242065 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22242065 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:49:31 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241993 --
Caddy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241993 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:36:10 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241992 said by KrK:

And lets say you spent billions and finally greased all the palms, paid all the property owners, and finally got the network up and running---- Then and only then your incumbent carriers will literally GIVE AWAY their services to undercut you to make sure you fail. They have shown time and time again in areas where citizens insist on building their own networks and stuff that they will undercut and dump their services on the market cheap in order to drive the newcomer under.....

... then they return to the status quo.
This is true. We saw Comcast engage in illegal predatory pricing more than once. In one instance on the side of town where Comcast didn't face muni competition TV and HSI was $97. On the side of town where they face muni competition they cut the price to $52...yeah, $52 for both digital cable AND HSI and the deal was good for 16 months. No where else did Comcast offer this illegal discount.

»Comcast Vs. Utopia

»'Discounted' Competition]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241992 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:36:00 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241873 See Profile's provider to start charging him $2.50 per KB. Then when he complains we can tell HIM to build his own network.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241873 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:15:22 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241842
I guess this is why they stoop to these tactics rather than compete.
--
Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241842 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:07:43 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241825
Even if you had the money, they are going to block you at every turn from deploying, and the city and residents don't want you tearing up their streets or property for nothing. They expect compensation, upfront, and your network isn't even built and won't turn a profit for a long time--- assuming you can get through the red tape and the lawsuits.

And lets say you spent billions and finally greased all the palms, paid all the property owners, and finally got the network up and running---- Then and only then your incumbent carriers will literally GIVE AWAY their services to undercut you to make sure you fail. They have shown time and time again in areas where citizens insist on building their own networks and stuff that they will undercut and dump their services on the market cheap in order to drive the newcomer under.....

... then they return to the status quo.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241825 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 16:04:38 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241787
Anyone who thinks "anyone can deploy" is naive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241787 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:57:58 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241780
"We don't want to deploy or improve our infrastructure, but we don't want anyone else to deploy either".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241780 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:56:34 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241769 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241769 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:55:19 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241761 said by hottboiinnc:

They can do what they want with THEIR network. You are free to build your own and service customers the way you want. Nobody is making you use TWC or any other carrier.
Try getting a PUC permit to be an ILEC, try, its grandfathered forever. PUC will tell you to goto the municipality for a telecom/video/whatever franchise which will let you hang wires on the poles, and a municipality won't approve it unless you grease the palms of every town council member to approve your franchise. I've researched it (hang OSP ethernet wire from my house to a neighbor's 1/2 a mile down the road who has cable and run a VDSL bridge, since TW wants $25K to extend the line).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241761 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:53:31 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241738 said by hottboiinnc:

They can do what they want with THEIR network. You are free to build your own and service customers the way you want. Nobody is making you use TWC or any other carrier.
They were also allowed to build THEIR network under a monopoly situation.

Are you saying we should be able to allow someone else to come into an area and to set up a new cable provider and have a monopoly (say 10yrs) where TWC will not be allowed to provide services. It would only be fair to allow the new competitor time to build up THEIR network as well. Of course, in 10 years, we would need to switch again and allow the next new competitor to set up shop.

The only psuedo competition we have now is coming from the ILECs which got to their position via monopoly as well.

Due to the HUGE infrastructure head-start that the ILECs and CableCos were given, it would be unfeasible for someone to go set up greenfield.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241738 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:50:21 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241736 said by hottboiinnc:

Anyone can. You can go out and build your own network. Nobody said ANYONE included the gov't.
Tell that to Google. Remember they tried to set up a network for free wifi in San Fransico. The City of San Fransico acted like the cost of this system was coming out of their own pockets. They laided down so many conditions that Google walked away. If Google with their almost bottomless pockets couldn't do it what makes you thing you, or I could. :hmm:
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241736 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:50:06 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241703 said by hottboiinnc:

Anyone can. You can go out and build your own network. Nobody said ANYONE included the gov't. Really, so I can just come on over to your place and start installing my equipment and cables all over your property? Nope. I can't. And not anyone else's either, therefore, I can't "Just build my own."
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241703 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:46:12 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241697 said by hottboiinnc:

Start your own? Wild Blue? Hughes Net? You have options. If you don't like it then build your own?
Oh please what a vacuous comment. Build your own what are you smoking. It is almost impossible for someone to start anything. With the endless government red tape, established ISP suing, politicians demanding a piece of the action in the form of campaign contributions, getting rights of way for feed lines or zoning for wireless delivery towers, etc, etc, etc, etc. What is the story here do you have a vested interest in seeing metered billing is as reality.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241697 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:45:19 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241694
If TWC doesn't want to play by fair and simple rules, let them surrender their franchises. Whether it's media, manufacturing, medicine, software...all businesses are subject to rules and regulations prohibiting them from abusing their market position in their engagement of competitors.

If TWC doesn't like it, let them conduct business in another country.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241694 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:44:51 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241691 said by hottboiinnc:

If you don't like it then build your own?Better idea: Government takes over last mile and then allows anyone to be their own ISP at the same rate. That way the issue of easements and access is solved.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241691 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:44:43 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241563 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241563 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:26:35 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241556 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241556 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:26:13 EDT Re: Now isn't the time... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241547
If you don't like it don't use the damn provider you're on now. It's that easy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Now-isnt-the-time-22241547 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:25:36 EDT