n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
 ·Optimum Online
| SIM Cards?
Could this possibly mean that Verizon will embrace SIM cards with LTE service? Previous reports made it appear as though LTE phones for Verizon were going to be hard locked to Verizon service without anything like a SIM card to allow switching carriers.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
1 edit | No, never in a million years. All Verizon "Open" devices still must be tested to Verizon specs and comply with them, and only after passing the test the ESN/IMEI range allocated to device by the manufacturer will be added to Verizon's "permitted" list that the cell network switches use.
A phone could have a SIM card slot for another cell provider, or for storing your address book/flash card, but I dont think it would not participate in authentication. |
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ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| said by patcat88  :No, never in a million years. All Verizon "Open" devices still must be tested to Verizon specs and comply with them, and only after passing the test the ESN/IMEI range allocated to device by the manufacturer will be added to Verizon's "permitted" list that the cell network switches use. Sounds about right. Totally unnecessary BS, of course, unless there will be incompatible flavors of LTE. I mean, the beauty of GSM is that, as long as a device supports the bands in use in a particular country, you just insert a carrier's SIM card, and it works. No need for so-called compatibility tests. If a device is GSM, it will work. I presume the same will be true of LTE.
Anyone wanna bet that VZW will charge manufacturers for this so-called compatibility test? Either that, or certain devices will be excluded, such as those that include a SIM card slot, which would allow a user to easily use it with another carrier. Or perhaps VZW just thinks their customer base is too stupid to choose a device that doesn't have the VZW Seal of Approval. That last one just might be true, considering how many people seem to have drunk their "we have the best network in the universe" Kool-Aid. |
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antwanp
Beyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite Radio
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX
clubs: 
 ·T-Mobile US
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to n2jtx
Actually from what I've been reading, it sounds like with the switch to LTE, the Vodafone half is really pushing to join global standards (including SIM cards). Verizon/Vodafone wanted nothing to do with that sinking ship called WiMax
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The Perils of Living in 3-D: »www.antwanpayne.com |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to ISurfTooMuch
said by ISurfTooMuch :Anyone wanna bet that VZW will charge manufacturers for this so-called compatibility test? Either that, or certain devices will be excluded, such as those that include a SIM card slot, which would allow a user to easily use it with another carrier. Or perhaps VZW just thinks their customer base is too stupid to choose a device that doesn't have the VZW Seal of Approval. That last one just might be true, considering how many people seem to have drunk their "we have the best network in the universe" Kool-Aid. No, you can do most of the test yourself if you have a lab full of equipment, I'm not sure if outside labs are used, but the tests they would use are full reproducable by you, the only test that requires VZW's participation is the AGPS/E911 test which must be done at their headquarters in NJ. |
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gopnick
join:2005-01-07
Benton, AR
·Charter Pipeline
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to antwanp
said by antwanp :Actually from what I've been reading, it sounds like with the switch to LTE, the Vodafone half is really pushing to join global standards (including SIM cards). Verizon/Vodafone wanted nothing to do with that sinking ship called WiMax Yep, this is right. The folks at Verizon that I deal with every day are telling me that they are being trained to get out of the handset sales business entirely. |
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ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL
| reply to patcat88
Then why not just use a SIM card and be done with it? I mean, look at AT&T and T-Mobile. They sell devices, but they do nothing to prevent you from getting a handset somewhere else and using it. I can get a phone from them, from an independent retailer, or even from another carrie, provided it's unlocked.
But this is no surprise, given VZW's culture of control. One uniform OS with limited customizability, no ability to use your own audio files as ringtones unless you want to use a hack to get them onto the phone, and no ability to use whatever technologically-compatible phone you choose unless it's been blessed by VZW. |
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adisor19
join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
| said by ISurfTooMuch :Then why not just use a SIM card and be done with it? I mean, look at AT&T and T-Mobile. They sell devices, but they do nothing to prevent you from getting a handset somewhere else and using it. I can get a phone from them, from an independent retailer, or even from another carrie, provided it's unlocked. But this is no surprise, given VZW's culture of control. One uniform OS with limited customizability, no ability to use your own audio files as ringtones unless you want to use a hack to get them onto the phone, and no ability to use whatever technologically-compatible phone you choose unless it's been blessed by VZW. I really don't think Verizon can afford NOT to have USIM cards for their LTE network. As much as they're crying about it, users WILL want to get another phone and having a USIM card is the only way. Otherwise, this will just mean that Verizon will keep acting like CDMA provider and thus attempting to rape the consumer as usual.
Adi |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to ISurfTooMuch
One of VZW's Open requirements is that VZW stores and VZW tech support be able to do basic settings changes/reprograming your phone, and be able to establish its bar levels and that it signed onto the cell network, without exception. VZW doesn't want their brand image damaged if your users call VZW for tech support because they are stupid, or your tech support is much worse or non-existent than VZW. Also there are E911/AGPS tests that go beyond what the FCC wants, so VZW isn't held responsible by the media for some horrific crime because your device didn't do AGPS. This is for CDMA.
Lawsuit happy US will quickly hold VZW responsible for negligently (and some other legalese words) allowing an unsafe handset onto their network in violation of FCC and tort law. GSM family isn't held responsible because their E911 uses triangulation with no help from the handset. Not sure what the plan is for E911 and LTE. |
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wayne8888
join:2005-10-16
Baltimore, MD
·XOHM WiMAX
·Cavalier Telephone
| reply to antwanp
One of the reasons that i was willing to jump from ATT to Verizon was the existence of a SIM card and CDMA/GSM and EVDO/HSDPA (UMTS)in the Blackberry Storm. Verizon was clever however in only having UMTS in the 2100 mhz frequency and not 900/1900mhz (ATT 3G) and not 1700mhz (T-mobile 3G). So you can only get 3G with EVDO in the US with Verizon (and have to settle for EDGE with ATT and T-mobile if you jump ship). And with the 2100 mhz UMTS frequency on the Storm you can still get 3G in Europe and Asia with the Storm.
Wayne |
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TomClancy
Freedom isn't free
join:2003-04-23
... | I think that was RIM's choice not Verizon's.
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| reply to n2jtx
Sprint and Verizon often say they need to control which phones can access their networks in order to maintain the integrity of their networks. To the non-techie that sounds admirable about wanting to have a good reliable network. But to a techie such as myself I think how great can Verizon and Sprint's networks be if an unapproved phone could somehow bring down their networks (knowing full well that Verizon and Sprint are spewing B$)? AT&T, T-Mobile and the European carrier networks have no problems with users using phones not supplied by the carrier. They must have much more stable networks than Verizon and Sprint  .
I am surprised that neither T-Mobile or AT&T have brought up that angle. They all talk about being the most reliable but here you have two companies that allow any GSM device on their network, no matter where it came from and two companies that forbid any hardware other than their own for network integrity reasons.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. |
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spamd
Premium
join:2001-04-22
Rockford, IL
·Insight Communicat..
| reply to patcat88
»electronicdesign.com/Articles/In···ID=18631
quote:
Next, I visited with TruePosition, a company that makes location-based-technology products. Their uplink-time difference-of-arrival (U-TDOA) technology is widely used in the cell phone industry to implement the E911 location system mandated by the FCC for all carriers. U-TDOA is the E911 technology used by AT&T and T-Mobile. Roughly 75K U-TDOA basestations are part of the estimated 200K+ basestations in the U.S. This system uses special receivers from three basestations to triangulate on a handset to compute its location usually to within 50 meters. Other cell sites of the cdma2000 variety use a handset solution that requires each handset have a GPS receiver that reports its location back to the carrier for E911 service. A version that helps predict location when the GPS antenna is indoors and out of touch with the satellites is called Assisted GPS.
TruePosition announced their new Hybrid Location Solution at the show. It combines the best features of U-TDOA and A-GPS. New algorithms combine the two technologies to provide higher location accuracy and increased reliability. As it turns out, U-TDOA is better in those locations where lots of cell sites exist and indoors while A-GPS works best when it is in a location with a clear view of the sky like in rural areas. The new hybrid approach is expected to improve overall location capability that will promote better location-based services (LBS).
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When everything is coming your way, you are in the wrong lane. |
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Hanko
join:2001-12-28
Eatonville, WA
| reply to patcat88
Verizon is currently talking with Giesecke & Devrient America Inc. about their SIM card technology for use in their phones. This also includes remote configuration capabilities. G & D was the first to develop sim cards for use in phones. If you go to europe you use G&D's technology.
»gdai.com/portal/page-_pageid=42,···RTAL.htm |
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