djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228 | reply to Critsmcgee
Re: Maximizing Rogue DPS for 3.1
I've seen a rogue with the Headless Horseman lvl 70 sword in the offhand... I was like what? and he's mutilate with a fast fist MH.
Well he's 2300 dps while I'm 4K+ figures.. |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO | Wow, I didn't even notice that mutilate no longer requires daggers.
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I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee! |
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Sithra
join:2008-02-07
| said by AthlGrond  :Wow, I didn't even notice that mutilate no longer requires daggers. Er, it does. |
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crytz
join:2009-03-17
1 edit | reply to AthlGrond
If mutilate didnt require daggers you'd see 8-10k dps rogues out there and 2 shotting people in pvp. |
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djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228
| reply to Critsmcgee
Well this rogue was a guildie, I sold him the sword of jin I got from heroic instance trash mobs, he respecced combat, how he's weareing Anub's fist weapon and the sword, his dps is up as I told him so...
Last night at Leviathan we got a DPS ring drop, but it has like 80 Str, 80 Stam, Armor Pen rating and hit rating..
I wish str was 2 AP as other classes but str is only 1 to 1 for rogues.. I had to pass on taht ring (ilevel 216) |
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crytz
join:2009-03-17 | Yeah if you roll on Strn gear against warriors/plate guys your bad. |
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Benty
join:2008-01-30
Durham, NC | reply to Critsmcgee
OR dodge... |
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djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228
| reply to Critsmcgee
It's like Ulduar loot is tailored for DKs, most of the stuff os Apen or Str or Haste, where's the agility and hit gear?
There are maybe 2 or 3 pieces with those 2, but there are many slots to upgrade, do they want us to go haste? I mean .1 seconds faster swings are nothing, we will have to be like 20% haste up to notice any difference, but now you'll swing faster and miss a lot.... |
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Dropper
join:2008-09-18
Anchorage, AK
3 edits | reply to Critsmcgee
Trinket from the first boss in Ulduar will give you nearly 1/3rd the hit rating you need for your melee dps.
I have the grim toll which gives me just over a quarter.
As for other gear, it is out there, you just have to watch carefully when you examine drops. The general rule of thumb at the moment is tier pieces give you your best combination of stats if you have other pieces like these trinkets that give you the hit rating you need.
Another example of a top class drop is Anarchy from 10 man Naxx (KT). Hit rating, agility and just about fast enough (faster would be better, which is why this is a 10 man drop).
But even so with the haste you get from a ton of items that 1.8 weapon speed soon goes down to 1.4 - 1.5.
Haste is awesome as long as you have the attack power, crit and hit rating to go with it.
A 4 set of 10 man or 25 man tier items, the grim toll or infuser thing from Ulduar and 1 weapon with hit rating should let you reach that 315 hit rating (poison cap) easily. You just need to gem correctly to get there if it doesn't. I doubt you'd need more than a couple of 8 agi / 8 hit rating gems.
You should also have over 33% crit and well over 3600 AP (complemented by plenty of haste) from that sort of setup too. |
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djlar
join:2009-04-23
799228
| reply to Critsmcgee
I've been unlucky with drops latetely, it's been like 3 straight 25 man naxx w/o grim troll (the one 4 weeks ago was grabbed by a DK with more EPGP), and sadly still 2 more DPS guys in front of me for that drop!
Heck I haven't got any upgrade since the first week of Ulduar, I got those bracers from Leviathan 25, that's it..
The fast DPS sword from Razorscale won't drop either, there seem to be more tank/cloth stuff dropping more than anything... |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25 | yay 10k uniques!! |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| reply to Critsmcgee
My verdict on aiming for Agility or Attack Power.
This is something that seems like a trivial subject amongst rogues. Some say its better to socket AP and other say that its better to socket AGI. Heres my opinion on how to effectively gear and spec for either. The main arguement i here is that AP doesnt stack with kings, at the same time you cant forget the bonus from Trueshot aura is better with AP than with AGI. This is just my 2-cents on this and nothing has been theory crafted or pounded out. There was little napkin math used here and there but nothing serious. Regardless of which one you choose it wont make a HUGE dps difference really.
Combat spec - Agility vs Attack Power
For the most part with combat spec your gonna wanna do agi with 15/51/5
. The reason being is that you want the most critical strikes to maximize the use of 5 combo point finishing moves for Relentless strikes. Stack gear with Agi and socket as much Agi as possible. With the alternative combat spec 18/51/2 you want as much rupture and poison damage as possible. Both
specs will do around the same DPS. The HUGE difference i believe we will see is when you get the 4 set T8 bonus. It seems that after you get more and more T8 gear agi will take its place as the true thing to stack for the most DPS for combat spec at least.
Mutilate spec - Agility Vs Attack Power
Mutilate spec is a little different than combat spec. A larger percentage of the damage is from poisons. The difference whether to use Agility or Attack Power for combat spec seems to come from your weapon choices. When i raid i use either two Sinister revenge, or Sinister revenge MH and Webbed death OH. With dual sinister revenge im attacking alot slower and really counting on my damage from mutilates to make up for the loss of focused attack procs. because the procs from focused attacks are lower and i need as many critical strikes as possible i see agi being better for this setup and i see this spec (51/13/7) looking better here because of the increased chance to get Deadly poison back up after an envenom. The other setup is to use your slowest dagger in your MH and a fast OH dagger for more procs from focused attacks and more mutilates. IMO it seems better to do more AP with this setup because your going to have more and more chances to crit with the faster OH weapon. This spec (51/13/7) looks better because of the increased chance to crit with all attacks and you really dont have to worry about restacking DP with the fast OH weapon.Either way your should have no problem out putting some awesome DPS.
HaT spec - Agility VS Attack power
No contest here. With the increase of Sinister Calling you want to go all out on Agi. Stack it as high as possible.
In closing, either way your going to be doing well. Rogue DPS is right where it should be...at the top. With the 4 set we will see how it turns out. It might be better to stack agi for more Rupture crits, or to stack AP for more base Rupture damage. Doesnt seem like that big of a difference and the DPS seems mostly situational.
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»www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/8/ |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs: | Ejerks already stated Agility was better than AP. The two are so close in damage that it just makes more sense to stack agility since you receive more from it: Increases AP, armor, crit, and dodge. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25 | Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap. |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs:
 ·Charter Pipeline
| said by Critsmcgee :Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap. I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't.
I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide. |
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Critsmcgee
Premium
join:2009-02-25
| said by JIGA :said by Critsmcgee :Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap. I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't. I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide. Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something. |
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AthlGrond
Premium,MVM
join:2002-04-25
Aurora, CO
·Comcast
| said by Critsmcgee :Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something. If you are dead you do 0 DPS. (To tie armor and dodge to DPS.)
I have a question from your AGI post above you say:
"The reason being is that you want the most critical strikes to maximize the use of 5 combo point finishing moves for Relentless strikes."
About the only way I see the improving of your critical strike percent would have a positive impact on Relentless Strikes is from using a Sinister Strike glyph. (Is that what you meant, or did I miss something?)
Oh, and I think your biggest impact for combat from critical strikes would be the damage bonus from Prey on the Weak. (Not the chance for a combo point from the SS glyph.)
--
I'm not a tax dodger, I'm a potential cabinet appointee! |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
| reply to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee :said by JIGA :said by Critsmcgee :Armor and dodge have nothing to do with overall DPS. Its just between crit and ap. I don't recall stating Armor and Dodge having anything to do with DPS... infact I didn't. I stated Agility provides more and listed what it does provide. Can you read the topic title please then and keep this on the subject of DPS and not Armor and Dodge. Thank you! I was wondering where you heard a clear answer that Agi is better than AP also? Just curious if ive missed something. Jesus man... what part of following a thread is hard to understand. You post, I reply.
I was replying to your post of "My verdict on aiming for Agility or Attack Power." for 2009-05-11 13:55:22
No shit this isn't about Dodge or Armor, it's about you debating Agility vs Attack Power. All I did was simply list what Agility provides.
»elitistjerks.com/f78/ Read the threads or download the spreadsheet and run the simulation with all Agil or all AP and see the difference. |
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slashr
join:2009-01-21
Alexandria, VA | reply to AthlGrond
Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids.
If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing. |
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JIGA
Its A Bird, Its A Plane, Its..
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Azle, TX
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
| said by slashr :Armor and dodge are completely irrelevant in raids. If you get hit in a raid you are dead regardless of what you are wearing. Then go stack AP gems only and get only AP return.
I myself will be stacking Agility gems for ALL of it's benefits. |
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