Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to dslrocker3
Re: Help/Advice with my Line Statistics please
Yes, there's a humourous note in my answer indeed. On the other
hand, you're well aware that i stopped trusting instant snapshots
a while ago... My reasons should seem obvious when one looks at
some of the "marginal events" i captured during the last months.
For example, one may be witnessing a popcorn-like progression in
terms of SNR Margin vs Error Rate curve and then the MoDem will
reset and the situation changes radically... Depending on when it
was captured, i consider that i just can't be absolutely sure what
happened exactly unless a unit was actually monitored externally.
I see a difference between having a hint and collecting evidence.
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
4 edits | reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale  :I'll be pleased to take a look at your long-term log, if any, but it seems i must remind you that 'RouterStats' already plots curves!  Bicephale, my last post was meant as a joke. Take a look at the error totals and the dsl uptime.... also, ask yourself this: what is the difference between this recent error total and the other error totals from previous days and what's the only thing that appears to have caused the difference? (this is a riddle for you)
Based on your laughing icon, I think you already knew that I was joking and I think that you already knew that I remebered that Routerstats will plot the graph for me. The joke was that there's really nothing to graph. The error rate is so rediculously low now that I've switched modems that the graph would be meaningless.
Assuming the modem's counters are accurate, why is it that my TD-8840 v1.3 with a firmware hacked to one that is meant for a different TP-Link modem is so much superior at handling line noise when compared to the Speedtouch 516 v6 (even when using firmware 7.4.3.2)? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to dslrocker3
I'll be pleased to take a look at your long-term log, if any, but it
seems i must remind you that 'RouterStats' already plots curves!
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
| reply to Bicephale
Bicephale, as much as a I agree with you that DMT screenshots only show a certain about of information, here's a DMT screenshot for you.
If I had something like Routerstats running and used it to record the frequency and timing of errors, do you think you would have been abel to help me graph the errors that are summarized in this screenshot? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to dslrocker3
Euh...
Allow me to remind you that TerTech created 'DSL_StatScope'
specifically because of Thomson's 'DMT'-hostile FirmWare... He
once wrote essentially what you just expressed here, as i recall.
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
1 edit | reply to dslrocker3
Hahaha! More tones should mean a higher attaianble rate but I'll never know thanks to our friends at Thomson!
!!! No more Diagnosis mode available in DMT 7.35 if using firmware 7.4.3.2.0. 
Also, I can't get Routerstats to even update read the error coutners properly from the modem page any more (it can read get an initial reading of the error counter but will never update the total for me meaning that the graph just shows a flat line at 0 errors all the time). I sense that this vesion 7 frimware won't be lasting long on my Speedtouch 516. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to dslrocker3
Depends on the predictability of the line, i like that.
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
1 edit | reply to Bicephale
Perhaps we can say that the usefullness of DMT screenshots can depend on the predictability of the line. A line with constantly changing conditions could render DMT reported error rates to be nothing more than an average and would only show those averages or line conditions at that exact point in time. If my line once again became problematic, I would be more likely to peform more detailed diagnostics. At the moment, the urgency isn't really there. Have I become complacent? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to dslrocker3
Hi DSLRocker,
I will not dispute your observations, my
intent is to simply react to a statement:
DR> ...DMT screenshots only give a
DR> general idea of what's going on...
This needs to be rephrased in my opinion!
My choice of words would differ. Imagine
a collection of successive 'DMT' captures
taken at a quick pace as when filming, it
is the movement which emerges from them
that gives a general idea of what's going
on... Instant 'DMT' snapshots are similar
to one single frame, it does fit within the
film but it reveals little about the overall
story unless it's a film with no action...
Lets remind the readers that all films are
not as dull as yours, that all phone-lines
are not providing such a stable DSL signal!
In fact, even yours may suffer from a few
hickups which will slip through if you don't
monitor it using more potent resources...
The 'DMT' instant snapshots are handy if
one trusts them to be representative of a
situation and he needs to communicate with
others in a swift/convenient way but they
fail to provide a "general" perspective. My
impression is that you're aware of this, of
course, but the words left the door opened
to some misunderstanding: i find that the
'DMT' snapshots only give a restricted idea
of what's going on during a specific time,
as far as i'm concerned! Don't you?
Look at a recent graph i've published lately:
%20.GIF)
From the ground up!, Bicephale, 2009-Nov-23
Even a dozen 'DMT' instant snapshots taken
at random intervals would fail to inform an
observer about what was really going on...
All he would see is a variation of the SNR
Margin taking place on some occasions, it's
nothing significant considering that these
could result from marginal events/readings.
Well, i might be tempted to ignore ordinary
3+ dB spikes but certainly not a couple of
those solid boost events when they have a
level of such magnitude! In my case those
anomalies turned out to be the mainstream
story and it's quite a puzzling one which no
single 'DMT' capture can document.
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
2 edits | reply to dslrocker3
conventional wiring Nov 24/09 | 
conventional wiring Nov 25/09 | 
unconventional wiring Nov 25/09 |
It used to always be a 3% difference between the two wiring methods but now it only appears to be 2%. The unconventional wiring tests still show an RCO that varries from 55 to 56% just as before. But the conventional wiring which always used to vary between 58 and 59% now varries between 57 and 58%. I know that sounds like a very, very small difference which it is but the fact tht I've been able to repeat it a few times can only lead me to believe that simply restripping one little wire closed the gap a little. This small change in RCO happened as soon as a finished restripping that wire and turned the modem back on. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to dslrocker3
Indeed, i see you point! Well, to the very least
you've proven the US 6 dB IKNS bug, i'd say!... |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
1 edit | reply to dslrocker3
Disabling upstream tones didn't seem to open up any additional downstream bandwidth but then again, the IKNS remotes leave such a large gap between the upstream and downstream tones that are used.
I wonder how long I could leave my connection like this before my profile got "improved" for me? hahaha! I think that I better stop making my modem sync at crazy rates like that, at least for a few days. |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
2 edits | reply to dslrocker3
defaults for reference purposes |  downstream t···ment.txt 15,260 bytes | | | 
tones that had less than 5 bits disabled
(dmt20091125_1529 tones with below 5 bits from reference sample disabled.png) |  |
For my line, this doesn't accomplish anything but I do see that my "least good" tones were dropped if you look at the SNR per tone graph (the lowest tone SNR is higher than before). I could see how this could possibly allow a user to achieve stability on a higher than "proper" profile, even if the user doesn't connect at the full rate. In this experiment, some of my attainable downstream bandwidth was sacrificed. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to dslrocker3
If that change of Attenuation level were real i'd
expect this condition to reflect into the graphs. |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
| reply to dslrocker3
TD-8840, All settings at default | 
All DSL modes enabled |  | 
extra dsl modes off, only g.dmt is enabled |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to AnonDSLGuy
Hi AnonDSLGuy,
Let me guess, your 'DMT' capture would be like this:
You know, i think it's great when one can obtain some
expert advice around here, even if the source happens
to be anonymous, but i searched a few threads about
Impulse Noise Protection (INP) and there's no "Before"/
"After" comparison whatsoever:
»Re: DSL overhead/sync
»Re: Obscenely High Ecc (sec)? Low US SNR?
»Re: Speedtouch 516 dying. Replacement modem?
»Re: high profile+modem sync lower OR low profile+modem sync max?
It appears you're using a 2Wire and you don't have to
deal with Bell - lucky you!... I may be wrong but i've
found the "INP" string over there:
»I cant understand my line stats for bell 2wire 2701HG-G
Is that where you became aware of the INP feature
for the 1st time?...
Appart from your GNet basher theories which once
again come with nothing but your anonymous word,
i'd like to read further about "Interleaver Depth"...
Euh... But there again, something tells me i simply
can't hope for "Before"/"After" comparisons figures
anyway. So, what can you really offer other than
remedies which are probably off-topic here and will
be best suited in some AT&T american forum???
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AnonDSLGuy
join:2009-11-05
| reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale :You seem to miss the action but now that you own a TP-Link TD884x with bin-per-bin spectral shaping lets have some fun by simply experimenting with those: 64, 74, 84, 129, 133, 134, 137, 140, 148, 150, 158, 182, 191, 192, 199, 226, 234, 235, 236, 237, 243.  Let DSL do its thing, and don't notch tones! If the bins are noisy less bits (possibly none) will be assigned to them. Noise is transient, and if you notch those tones now, they may be less noisy next time you retrain, so you're pissing away bandwidth for disabling tones you could be using.
Instead complain to Bell as to why they relegate wholesale customers to ADSL, when running everyone on ADSL2+ would save them money from much added stability (ie: SRA, INP). You poor easterner's and your utterly ignorant ILEC =(. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to dslrocker3
You seem to miss the action but now that you own a
TP-Link TD884x with bin-per-bin spectral shaping lets
have some fun by simply experimenting with those:
64, 74, 84, 129, 133, 134, 137, 140, 148, 150, 158,
182, 191, 192, 199, 226, 234, 235, 236, 237, 243.
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Mauricio
aka CigaR
Premium
join:2008-12-06
| reply to dslrocker3
Temperature variations, amongst others, could be the cause for most of the fluctuations. My connection has never been stable in the Spring/Fall. I would assume, even if you're line is far from being marginal, that it could also be affected by such variables.
Colder weather usually translates into better line conditions. My line attenuation has seen a slight decrease over the last few weeks (67.7 to 67.0).
Can't wait for expertech to finish splicing/activating the RDSLAM that will feed my line. |
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dslrocker3
join:2002-05-26
Toronto
| reply to dslrocker3
Yesterday, I restripped one of my wires that goes into the jack that feeds my modem. It might just be a conincidence but it would appear that the performance difference gap between normal wiring and my uncoventional wiring trick appears to be getting smaller. If it's a just a coincidence, that would just mean that my line has got slightly better in the last 24 hour all round and it has nothing to do with me redoing that wire. |
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