SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
| Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. |
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DarkLogix
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX | you must be an enemy of the brotherhood and Mr. Goldstein |
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tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Callcentric
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·FrontierNet Intern..
1 edit | reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP  :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. of course, you are *blatantly* ignoring the fact that many isps have tried to do this (sell browsing history for money) already - british isp bt comes to mind.
of course, you only see what you want to see and have completely missed the first clause of the first sentence of the article posted
Deep packet inspection (DPI) has many legitimate uses on an ISP network
q. |
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Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. soon DPI will be useless by using strong encryption
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April 2009 (Incoming: 172769 MB / Outgoing: 61092 MB) |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. And your implication that there is nothing wrong with DPI is the polar opposite. Quality of service? Joke! Sounds to me like you're in favor of revenue stream at any cost.
In the same category of Ma Bell's "reach out and touch someone." And you know where that brought us, don't you?
The incessant mosquito whine of telemarketers, among others. Futile slap against bloodsuckers only yields 1 in 10 gone splat.
Who thinks telemarketers add to the quality of phone service?
« crickets »
Anyone?
« crickets »
DPI is in the same category. Claiming it's needed for network management, while masking the real reasons ISPs are wetting their pants to put it in place.
Nothing good will come from DPI.  |
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k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| reply to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_ :said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. soon DPI will be useless by using strong encryption ISP to customer: "Why was every single one of your packets encrypted?"
Customer to ISP: "None of your damn business!  *happy face*" |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Another anti-ISP article from Mr. Bode
said by SuperWISP :"birdfeedr," it sounds as if your name should really be "bird brain." Well, I guess that sets the tone for discourse from you. I apologize for whatever I said to merit that response. I thought I made a couple of valid points. Maybe with a little flair, but valid nonetheless.
said by SuperWISP :Go ahead: go to an ISP that doesn't understand how to monitor its network. You'll get what you deserve: poor service. I'm noting your use of "monitor". That's a major part of arguments against DPI.
I accept, as does Karl, that there may be a positive use for DPI. Let's call it "management". So far, DPI management is innocuous until it is used to deny subscribers use of the system as it is marketed. I am not arguing for or against caps or throttling. That's a different issue.
If an ISP plans on using DPI, and can assure it's subscribers how it will be used, and for what purpose, and can assure it will not be used for as-yet unspecified purposes, maybe i can make an informed decision.
But, answer me this, why is it that the major ISPs already have in place language in their TOS that says they may use traffic for third-party use?
Trust me, management is the code word justification for the real desire. Revenue stream. |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
·magicjack.com
| reply to Anon
You don't need to know anything about the user data in packets to effectively monitor and manage any network.
Of course, when you resort to personal attacks on those who disagree with you, you obviously must be clueless to begin with... so, you're what? 8? |
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
1 edit | "My computer says it can't find thisparticulardomain.com."
"I'm trying to reach this Web site, but all I'm getting is a blank page."
"My computer is acting funny. Does it have a Trojan horse program in it that's sending out spam or something?"
"Is my computer infected with the Slammer worm?"
"Tech support? My connection is slow. Is my son running that illegal nut-teller program again?"
...
"Sorry, but we can't help you. Congress outlawed the basic network administration tools that would allow us to look at network traffic in detail and tell you." |
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Aozora
join:2008-11-28
·Comcast
2 edits | reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :Of course, being so sure that ISPs are fundamentally evil, Mr. Bode would never consider the notion that perhaps ISPs monitor their networks to ensure quality of service. Rather, they're doing e-vile spying and selling users' darkest secrets to the highest bidder, of course. That will be the day I see elephants flying incredibly fast through my window.
You do not have to be cynical to see reality. Next you are going to say the ISP was spoofing packets to ensure my safety too. |
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birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to SuperWISP
said by SuperWISP :1. "My computer says it can't find thisparticulardomain.com." 2. "I'm trying to reach this Web site, but all I'm getting is a blank page." 3. "My computer is acting funny. Does it have a Trojan horse program in it that's sending out spam or something?" 4. "Is my computer infected with the Slammer worm?" 5. "Tech support? My connection is slow. Is my son running that illegal nut-teller program again?" ... 6. "Sorry, but we can't help you. Congress outlawed the basic network administration tools that would allow us to look at network traffic in detail and tell you." 1. Reboot your modem/router then try again.
2. Reboot your computer then try again.
3. Call our premium support helpline for $19.95 per incident.
4. Call our premium support helpline for $19.95 per incident.
5. Our system shows you are getting the bandwidth you are provisioned for. Service is "up to x/y mbps." Reboot your computer and try again.
6. In order to answer your questions, we can run some system tools that will look at all the data that's crossing your modem. It might show some sensitive data such as passwords and accounts. Will you authorize us to use these tools to diagnose your connection? You may terminate the diagnostic sesion at any time. We cannot initiate it without your permission.
SuperWISP. I get your point. I've never invalidated your point of view. Sometimes it is possible to solve network problems by looking closely atthe packets. I've worked with CommView and Wireshark to analyse and solve problems.
1 to 5 are typical tech support at the level 1. If you get past that level, something like 6 becomes operative. I've called for tech support, and this is real world experience.
You're talking about tech support. Karl's article, plus the referenced WSJ article are talking about something else entirely.
quote:
The negative uses of DPI have led to hearings this week in Washington exploring how broadband ISPs use the technology, and whether stronger privacy guidelines are needed.
quote:
The focus of the hearing was on new efforts by Internet providers to collect and share data on consumers' behavior to target online advertising and by cable companies to target ads at subscribers via their set-top boxes.
Are you sure you understand what I am talking about?
We're not on the same page, and there's no requirement to do so. But man, I don't think we're in the same library. If ya know what I mean. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | reply to SuperWISP
Really? Because I have diagnosed and repaired those same type problems 40+ hours every week for the last 17 years and never once did I have to use DPI to do it. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| reply to SuperWISP
Oh give me a break. Again? Anti-ISP? This is getting to be a pattern for you, defend shameful/illegal practices and claim it's all bias. What you are effectively saying is Karl should just "shut up" and not report such transgressions. Are you just jealous and wish you could mistreat your customers this badly too?
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| reply to birdfeedr
said by birdfeedr :But man, I don't think we're in the same library. If ya know what I mean. I think he's in the library of "Make $$$$$ FAST!" as in "I run an ISP and I should be able to make money (by hook or by crook) anyway I see fit and nobody should be allowed to stop me."
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to SuperWISP
the ISP exists to provide a stable link to the internet. not milk my browsing habits for sale to the highest bidder.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY
3 edits | reply to KrK
Yes, that is my honest opinion: Karl is consistently anti-ISP. And I am not the only one who thinks this. In a topic I opened on the subject (which Karl locked immediately when he saw it), the majority of those posting agreed. Some went as far as to call his writing "yellow journalism." And I received even more responses offline via e-mail, saying that they agreed with me and were glad that I was daring enough to say it publicly.
Balanced journalism is important, and I think that DSL Reports should have more balanced coverage. Since Karl consistently beats on ISPs, there should be (IMHO) at least one other writer who has actual experience delivering broadband and doesn't take such a negative stance. Just my 2 cents. |
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PX Eliezer
Premium
join:2008-08-09
New Jersey
·Callcentric
·Optimum Voice
·callwithus
·voip.ms
| Mr. Bode was referencing an article from the Wall Street Journal, hardly a left-wing paper.
»online.wsj.com/article/SB1240505···681.html
Is it possible that you are as biased in one direction as you claim Mr. Bode to be in the other? |
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59126125
Premium
join:2006-01-21
clubs: | reply to SuperWISP
Hmmm, wonder how that ties into the installation of optical splitters not that long ago? Secret rooms, war on terror, blah, blah, blah. Bullshit. Everyone is monitored. |
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SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY | reply to PX Eliezer
Amy Schatz' WSJ article was not biased. But Karl's coverage of so-called "deep packet inspection" (which is a misnomer in several ways: packets have no "depth" and no human being is "inspecting" them), IMHO, is. |
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