Topic 'Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22289665 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:40:24 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:40:24 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22298053 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22298053 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:33:05 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22297583 said by wwdubbia:

said by DGLewis:

said by espaeth:

The 10K balance sheet only shows direct costs (power, hardware, maintenance, vendor fees) and not indirect costs like operating the service vehicle fleet, developing tech training programs, paying employee salaries + benefits, call center operation costs, etc.
And those indirect costs scale not with traffic, but with number of customers. The number of trucks, technicians, and call center workers you need doesn't change whether your customers are using 10 GB/month, 100 GB/month, or 1000 GB/month.
and it would be safe to assume that these costs would go down due to the caps. e.g. less customers = lesser need for technicians/truck rolls
Cost has gone down but our usage has not :)
The more we use the less it cost
on the other hand, the less we use the more it cost
buy more, pay less! lol

buy large quantity save money!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22297583 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:16:46 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22295636 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22295636 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:58:34 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22293257
Can't have that now can they?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22293257 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 03:07:00 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22293013 --
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22293013 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 00:44:12 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22292154 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22292154 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:43:03 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291626 said by ThrowDemsOut:

How about gasoline prices?
How about the cost of electricity in Calif a few years ago?
Oil fluctuations are globally and politically influenced.

Calif. electricity was result of Enron's criminal behavior (fueled by greed).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291626 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:23:24 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291181 You may think it's far fetched, but 2 years ago so was the idea of metered billing.
This is a consumer fight that has broad implications. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291181 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:57:51 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291071 said by jjeffeory:

$3 BILLION??? Sounds freaking fantastic to me.
The percentage is the relevant number, not the amount.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291071 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:35:14 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291055 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291055 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:33:28 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291023 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291023 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:28:32 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291022 said by RR User :

How would you feel about paying 3-4x more on your electric, gas or water bill? Or what about paying 3-4 times more for that car you just bought. What about having your mortgage or your food bill quadruple?

You never see increases that dramatic on any other common service, so why should we see it on broadband?
How about gasoline prices?
How about the cost of electricity in Calif a few years ago?
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291022 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:28:31 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291002 said by Skippy25:

And you don't just want profit, you want it here and now and will sacrifice tomorrow to make a buck today.
quote:
Not true. Most investors want to maximize profits over a period of time. They don't look for an immediate return at the expense of steady long term returns.

Worse comes to worse, you just pull your money out of one company and shove it in another as you can care less where you make your money
quote:
And you would leave your hard earned money in a company that never turns a profit, purely out of altruism for the employees & society? Don't make me laugh!!


--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22291002 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:25:44 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290994 --

You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290994 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:24:19 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290951
I think most other people who also get a lot of benefit out of their broadband connection would be willing to pay a little bit more, like I do. But suddenly penalizing people with overages that could easily top out at $150, which is 3-4x more than we already pay is ridiculous. How ridiculous exactly? How would you feel about paying 3-4x more on your electric, gas or water bill? Or what about paying 3-4 times more for that car you just bought. What about having your mortgage or your food bill quadruple? You never see increases that dramatic on any other common service, so why should we see it on broadband?

People complain when their cable bill goes up 3-5% with a rate hike, but people eat the cost and move on. This should be no different, since I have never had a 300-400% rate hike on my cable bill before, broadband should follow the same rules.

I'm not against TW making a profit, or trying to figure out a way to pay for DOCSIS 3 upgrades, but they surely should have found a more acceptable way to do it. I personally would like to see them re-brand their Turbo tier as their unlimited/250GB super tier and keep it about the same price, while all lower tiers may have a usage-based type billing model. It would give users in non-competitive area's some choice.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290951 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:15:20 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290817 said by Matt:

That is exactly right and why I am so infuriated by this entire fiasco. Time Warner is rolling this trial out in markets with little to no competition. Why aren't they rolling this out in their competitive markets where they face FiOS? Isn't THAT where they should upgrade to DOCSIS 3.0?And the low caps to go with it. Will it really be usable for anything other than email? Personally, I am not sure what TW is actually thinking to begin with.
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- "Techie" Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290817 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:52:12 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290762
While it may not be easy to pin down the exact cost of bandwidth, it's quite obvious it's a relatively cheap, and plentiful resource, which naturally makes it a perfect resource for cable companies to mislead customers into thinking it's "scarce and expensive".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290762 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:43:23 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290686 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290686 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:27:37 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290601 said by DGLewis:

And those indirect costs scale not with traffic, but with number of customers. The number of trucks, technicians, and call center workers you need doesn't change whether your customers are using 10 GB/month, 100 GB/month, or 1000 GB/month.I didn't say they were related to traffic consumption. I simply stated that you can't directly relate the direct costs of Data Services on a 10-K statement to revenue because it doesn't account for the most expensive parts of providing the service: the humans involved in the operation of the services, taxes, interest on outstanding debt, and other overhead.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290601 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:10:07 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290552 have true competition.

How much do HP / Dell / IBM make on their PC business?
What about simple hardware vendors like Mwave and Newegg?
Amazon and OneCall?
How about your local grocery stores?
How about your local fast food restaurants?

The problem is you have a company that is a monopoly in many areas and a (cooperative) duopoloy at best in others. Stating that if customers are willing to pay it then they are golden is neither right (morally) or collectively for the consumer base because they truly have no choice.

The number one problem for corporations are investors (like yourself) that don't care about anything except profit. And you don't just want profit, you want it here and now and will sacrifice tomorrow to make a buck today. Worse comes to worse, you just pull your money out of one company and shove it in another as you can care less where you make your money, you just want to make it. Be damned with the company and/or society - give me profit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290552 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:00:57 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290538 said by jimbo2150:

Now lets factor it competition into your equation. No/little competition means there is little/nothing to offset that excessive price.That is exactly right and why I am so infuriated by this entire fiasco. Time Warner is rolling this trial out in markets with little to no competition. Why aren't they rolling this out in their competitive markets where they face FiOS? Isn't THAT where they should upgrade to DOCSIS 3.0?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290538 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:56:33 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290521 said by jimbo2150:

said by Matt:

I think you'd be surprised to know that most companies have profit margins that are 1000's of percentage points higher than the physical cost.
And my entire point is... why? Why do they have to have an immediate return at the expense of their customers? What ever happen to long-term investments? And why is it seen as such a bad thing that a company not make a 1000+% profit margin when they could make a 100%. It may take a bit more time for a full return but it would most likely come.
I don't mean on the value of their stock. The point of such a high profit margin is to allow for investment in expansion, to better the service, as a safety net for the unexpected. There are numerous reason that successful companies must have such a large profit margin and really require one to operate. Apple has what, a 600% profit margin on the iPhone by most estimates? (That's probably on the low side too.)

When you start talking about huge corporations like Time Warner, that percentage can shrink because that percentage of profit is simply a much larger sum of money. You see that in the executive compensation packages. CEO, CTO, CFO's all figured out if they can eek out 2 points on their stock value by cutting costs, they directly stand to benefit. It may not be much to the profit of the company, but it's still a huge sum of money to an individual. After all, what is $28 million if you had a net profit of $7 billion? That's only .4% of said net profit.

However, that $28 million could have upgraded half your market to DOCSIS 3.0. So a lot of what you see is the result of impatient stock holders who want an immediate return. They are not the majority of the smart investors out there however. They came to the forefront when the day trading phenomenon became prevalent. When you couple that with the greed of an executive, little to no competition, and no oversight by an impartial party, you get what we have now. Greed run rampant in the from of anti-consumer practices.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290521 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:53:47 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290516 said by espaeth:

The 10K balance sheet only shows direct costs (power, hardware, maintenance, vendor fees) and not indirect costs like operating the service vehicle fleet, developing tech training programs, paying employee salaries + benefits, call center operation costs, etc.
None of which are affected by bandwidth utilization. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290516 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:53:06 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290508 said by DGLewis:

said by espaeth:

The 10K balance sheet only shows direct costs (power, hardware, maintenance, vendor fees) and not indirect costs like operating the service vehicle fleet, developing tech training programs, paying employee salaries + benefits, call center operation costs, etc.
And those indirect costs scale not with traffic, but with number of customers. The number of trucks, technicians, and call center workers you need doesn't change whether your customers are using 10 GB/month, 100 GB/month, or 1000 GB/month.
and it would be safe to assume that these costs would go down due to the caps. e.g. less customers = lesser need for technicians/truck rolls]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290508 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:51:53 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290479 said by espaeth:

The 10K balance sheet only shows direct costs (power, hardware, maintenance, vendor fees) and not indirect costs like operating the service vehicle fleet, developing tech training programs, paying employee salaries + benefits, call center operation costs, etc. And those indirect costs scale not with traffic, but with number of customers. The number of trucks, technicians, and call center workers you need doesn't change whether your customers are using 10 GB/month, 100 GB/month, or 1000 GB/month.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290479 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:45:13 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290475 said by jimbo2150:

What about greed? $1/gb is not excessive greed? $0.20/text message is not excessive greed?
1. Text messaging isn't a requirement for cell phone/data
2. There are relatively cheap unlimited plans by every carrier.
3. You can have text messaging disabled

This is more like having a 10GB 1.5Mbps plan with overages, and having the option to upgrade to a 10Mbps plan with unlimited. Of course, unlike text messaging - its the actual plan, while text messaging is an add on (I have mine disabled - waste of money, internet data is cheaper)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290475 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:43:50 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290467 said by Metatron2008:

Why would a margin 1000's of times be bad to the consumer if they are willing to pay it?Now lets factor it competition into your equation. No/little competition means there is little/nothing to offset that excessive price. It means the consumer has little option besides pay it or drop the service (supposing they are not locked in a contact and have to pay early term fees).

The same companies charge excessive rates to allow others to use their network. Well out of the viable competitive range. THey constantly try to prevent competition and even a community's attempts to create competion (either through a local/private network, wireless, or other).

And in the end the consumer has no voice. Stinks to high heaven of greed to me.
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- "Techie" Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290467 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:42:09 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290464 said by jimbo2150:

said by ThrowDemsOut:

And what exactly is greed?
Such an easy way to attempt to say nothing is greed. I can certainly ask the same question... what exactly is NOT greed? 800% pofit? 8000%?

So why is to SOOOOO bad to have a profit aimed at giving decent consumer products and make a decent return 5 years in vs. 0.5 years in? I don't know why so many companies seem to think that if they are not making an immediate return, it should not be done or it is the wrong way to go. When did instant gratification become part of business?

Edit: Also, what about COMPETITION?? They do everything to keep it out and in the Internet business there seems to be very little in most places in the U.S. (with exception to very large metro areas).
I think TK was implying that greed means differently to alot of people.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290464 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:41:19 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290436 said by jimbo2150:

said by Matt:

I think you'd be surprised to know that most companies have profit margins that are 1000's of percentage points higher than the physical cost.
And my entire point is... why? Why do they have to have an immediate return at the expense of their customers? What ever happen to long-term investments? And why is it seen as such a bad thing that a company not make a 1000+% profit margin when they could make a 100%. It may take a bit more time for a full return but it would most likely come.
Why would a margin 1000's of times be bad to the consumer if they are willing to pay it?

That's just making money. If the customer refuses, making them pay it is monopolistic greed.

But hey, if the customer wants to pay it, why stop them?

In all honesty, their is a large difference between keeping the customer happy, and letting them have a choice, versus being a hippy who wants to share the wealth.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290436 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:36:46 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290431 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290431 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:35:40 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290430 said by Lazlow:

It is from TWC's 10K, usually pages 60 and 89.

»investing.businessweek.com/resea···ype=10-K
And if you look at the overall revenues - costs(excluding a one time charge of $14.8 billion, their profits are not overly high.
Their revenues for TWC were approx $17 billion and the costs were $14 billion. So they made $3 billion on $17 billion in revenue. A 17.6% return.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290430 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:35:39 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290400 said by Matt:

I think you'd be surprised to know that most companies have profit margins that are 1000's of percentage points higher than the physical cost.And my entire point is... why? Why do they have to have an immediate return at the expense of their customers? What ever happen to long-term investments? And why is it seen as such a bad thing that a company not make a 1000+% profit margin when they could make a 100%. It may take a bit more time for a full return but it would most likely come.
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- "Techie" Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290400 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:29:06 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290394 Everyone has the right to a profit. And what one person sees as greed another sees as profit. But here you have a case where a company tries to make drastic detrimental changes to service of the consumer for no reason other than more profit. Then they insult the consumer by implying they're ignorant. On top of that, they then tell you your not worth upgrading. This is consumer rape!

There is a discussion that should have happened a long time ago. A sort of stress test for broadband providers. That is what happens when broadband reaches saturation point?
How would the already oversold services hold up to the expanding web with expanding content. This is nothing new, we were having these discussions years ago. So to me, the basic argument is that are we going to let the already profitable mega carriers extort more money from the consumer because they see an even more profitable business model.
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"When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290394 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:28:02 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290382 said by ThrowDemsOut:

And what exactly is greed?Such an easy way to attempt to say nothing is greed. I can certainly ask the same question... what exactly is NOT greed? 800% pofit? 8000%?

So why is to SOOOOO bad to have a profit aimed at giving decent consumer products and make a decent return 5 years in vs. 0.5 years in? I don't know why so many companies seem to think that if they are not making an immediate return, it should not be done or it is the wrong way to go. When did instant gratification become part of business?

Edit: Also, what about COMPETITION?? They do everything to keep it out and in the Internet business there seems to be very little in most places in the U.S. (with exception to very large metro areas).
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- "Techie" Jim]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290382 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:26:20 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290343
»investing.businessweek.com/resea···ype=10-K]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290343 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:19:39 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290339 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290339 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:18:54 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290330
3.75+.85= 4.6

(10.5-4.6)/4.6=128%(profit)

So I think disparity in percent profit shows that it is about how much they can convince the user to pay versus what it costs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290330 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:17:59 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290305 said by Lazlow:

Tk

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Espaeth has a point and we move the total HSI revenue cost from $146 million to an even $1 Billion, which should cover ANY imagined costs. You are still making over four times as much as your costs. I do not hold it against any company to make an honest profit, but can you really say that anything over 100% profit is honest? ($4.159 - $1)/$1=316%(profit)
Most companies that I have worked for would consider a profit that is 4 times documented costs as a pretty terrible margin. You simply can't expand with that kind of limited revenue flow and the subsequent cash reserves it would allow for.

I think you'd be surprised to know that most companies have profit margins that are 1000's of percentage points higher than the physical cost.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290305 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:13:41 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290282 said by RARPSL:

You are confusing the speed that the user can move data with the volume of data that they can move. A higher speed tier has nothing to do with how much data you can move - Only how long it will take you to move it. Unless you want to move more data then a slow tier can handle if used 24/7, all switching to a faster tier does is decrease the amount of time it takes to move the same amount of data.
I don't see that I am confusing anything.

If the "Granny Tier" is 768Kbps but I want the ability to say, stream Netflix. I should have the option of upgrading to the "Granny Xtreme Tier!" which has say, a 1.5Mbps limit. I am obviously paying extra for the convenience of being able to move more bits per second, so there should be an extra charge associated with that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290282 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:10:33 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290263 said by jimbo2150:

said by Matt:

There is if you try to do it in a dishonest way that is extremely anti-consumer.
This is exactly the kind of poor thinking of companies and those who support it today. ONLY being dishonest is anti-consumer? Falsifying data (which is what most are doing now) to support their own agenda is not dishonest? What about greed? $1/gb is not excessive greed? $0.20/text message is not excessive greed?
I think everything you mention would fall under the umbrella of "dishonest." I also mention several times in my posts that their plan penalizes their existing customers, I think that covers greed too.

Also, I'm not sure I like the implied insult that I am somehow pro-Time Warner or pro any corporation. I most definitely fall onto the pro-consumer side of things, but I'm not naive enough to fall so far to the pro-consumer side that I can't see and understand both sides.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290263 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:14 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290182 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290182 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:51:12 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290149 said by Lazlow:

Tk

Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Espaeth has a point and we move the total HSI revenue cost from $146 million to an even $1 Billion, which should cover ANY imagined costs. You are still making over four times as much as your costs. I do not hold it against any company to make an honest profit, but can you really say that anything over 100% profit is honest? ($4.159 - $1)/$1=316%(profit)
I don't see a problem with it, as long as customers keep paying it and WANTING to pay.

The TWC CEO must be a complete idiot, if you are making that much revenue, why piss off your customers?

Make a few network upgrades, add new speeds, make people pay more for the new speeds! Not piss them off, lose customers and business.

When did executives forget how to treat customers? You are supposed to kiss their ass, make them feel good, even if you aren't going to fill their needs...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290149 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:44:27 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290114
Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Espaeth has a point and we move the total HSI revenue cost from $146 million to an even $1 Billion, which should cover ANY imagined costs. You are still making over four times as much as your costs. I do not hold it against any company to make an honest profit, but can you really say that anything over 100% profit is honest? ($4.159 - $1)/$1=316%(profit)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290114 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:39:20 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290101 during a rough recession that will stiffle recovery

For all the talk of defending corporations TK, I'm surprised your defending this. If the economy doesn't recover, which steps like these may make it happen, their won't be any way for corporations to survive.

With all this said, I think greed is something that works outside of the free market. If you set your product to be any price, and the customer pays it, then good. Even if it's billions of dollars.

If they don't want to pay that, then you go down. Greed is destruction of free market IMO.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290101 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:37:23 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290058 said by S_engineer:

Rollover bandwidth...theres an idea. Although you'd have the same congestion at peak times now!
Not to mention that it would completely negate the notion that metered billing is a necessity for the continued survival of the cable industry, and not just a money grab.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290058 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:29:39 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290054 said by jimbo2150:

What about greed? $1/gb is not excessive greed? $0.20/text message is not excessive greed?

I am all for companies making money, but legitimate money.

And what exactly is greed? At what point does making a profit become greed? Well, that is strictly in the eye of the purchaser. For some people, greed is any company that makes a profit greater than 1%. And for a very few, greed is when a company makes any profit at all. So what is the % that fits your definition of greed? Is it a profit tied to the Cost of Capital? Is it a risk weighted return better than you could earn in a so-called safe investment like treasury bills? Is it some % above the rate of inflation?

So, what is your definition?
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290054 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:27:52 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290034 said by delltechkid:

All of the indirect costs you mention would exist even if they didn't provide HSI, as they must have these for TV. Sure there are a few extra people that they might of had to hire to cover the people who buy only internet, but I'm sure the majority of their HSI customers probably have cable TV as well. There are a number of dual-purpose employees, which is why it's difficult to tie them to a specific product. Still, if you needed 40 FTE hours/week to serve a function specific to video that same person isn't going to be able to have more time dedicated to HSI. As workload increases you need more people, even if some of their duties may be shared.

The HSI call center support staff are different from the video support staff. There are still many data-only field service techs, and without the HSI product they wouldn't need the CMTS layout they have (and associated employees who manage that), they wouldn't need the abuse staff to deal with DMCA complaints, they wouldn't have as much to manage in terms of ARIN IP netblock allocations, DNS assignments, mail server operations, DNS/DHCP server operations, etc.

No matter how you look at it, direct costs of a specific service alone are a poor way of relating the total cost of providing that service to revenue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290034 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:23:16 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290025 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290025 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:21:13 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290021 said by Matt:

Just like Time Warner didn't want to introduce RR Lite or RR Basic but they wound up being wildly successful, you introduce a new tier, let's call it the Granny Tier, that is based on usage billing. You make it 100% usage based (never happen) or you charge $9.99 month + usage.

I agree that 100% usage based will never happen since it is not fair either to the ISP or the customer. The way to go is the second method - A flat fee for the making the service available and a per-unit for for your usage of the service.

This is the way production costs are computed and it fits this situation. To produce widgets, you have an initial cost to set up the machine to produce them and then a per-item cost to produce a widget once the machine is set up. In this case, the set-up is connecting the customer (including billing them) and all the infrastructure needed to deliver access to the Internet. The per-unit cost is the cost of actually using the Internet.
Then, if people want more speed, but a cheaper monthly price than the unlimited plans, maybe offer a higher speed tier. Price the unlimited at $29.99 a month like it is, but price the usage at $19.99 + usage. You'll inevitably catch people with overages, but you'll at least give them a choice and won't penalize your customers who are comfortable with their current plan or simply don't want to watch their usage.
You are confusing the speed that the user can move data with the volume of data that they can move. A higher speed tier has nothing to do with how much data you can move - Only how long it will take you to move it. Unless you want to move more data then a slow tier can handle if used 24/7, all switching to a faster tier does is decrease the amount of time it takes to move the same amount of data. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290021 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:20:18 EDT Re: Metered Billing Has Its Place http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290002
It has been estimated that large bandwidth companies only pay between $0.05 to $0.10 per GB. And lets say it takes double that to "get it to your home" and thats still only $0.20 per GB maximum. So a more than "fair" price might be $0.40 per GB - with it possibly being half that.

Heck Amazon's S3 service charges $0.20 per GB.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Metered-Billing-Has-Its-Place-22290002 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:15:50 EDT