Topic 'Re: they have not boot me off yet' in forum ''

Topic 'Re: they have not boot me off yet' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291350 en Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:16:30 EDT Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:16:30 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22305767

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22305767 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:54:19 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22301415 said by pandora:

A congestion protocol is necessary when there is contention. At the same time, users who take 10 to 100 times more bandwidth than average are likely causing congestion.
You people still confuse bandwidth with bytes downloaded. Just tell me where I can get 160Mbps to 1600Mbps more than my neighbor next door? My max bandwidth without powerboost on Comcast ir 16Mbps. There is no way that I can use 10 or 100 times more.

These operators need to plan for peak time and incorporate the cost into SLIGHTLY higher rates for everyone. If they manage for peak usage on their internet connections properly, then there will be no extra charge when getting into that 90% or 95% peak.

This low cap and per GB billing is nothing more then a cash grab.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22301415 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:59:30 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300337 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300337 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:58:00 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300978
You should also be careful about the male/female thing. The person that I know with the largest library(by a HUGE factor) is female and she is not alone. But yes, those that are tech savvy are more likely (particularly when young) to be involved in these kinds of activities. It is usually more about meeting the challenge (king of the hill, fastest, the first one there, etc) than the actual content. Since they are not a business and what they are doing is not costing the ISP anything extra, I do not think a commercial account is necessary.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300978 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 02:41:16 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300837
The supposedly highest tech hundred plus gigabyte users are most likely young males downloading pirated content over torrents. Not exactly the cream of the crop IMO. If they way, a commercial account could be appropriate.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300837 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:33:26 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300794
I am not sure what you mean by:

"A congestion protocol is necessary when there is contention."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300794 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:17:06 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300782 --
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22300782 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:11:31 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299753
There is a problem with using caps at all. When (and NOT if) enough people are streaming and you try to have set peak hours (for the cap), a large number of people will "discover" how to save to disk rather than live streaming. This will make peak hours become a moving target(4-10 this month, 10-2 next month, ect). This is why I think the only way out(other than just keeping up with system upgrades) is to use a congestion based, proticol agnostic, throttle (when the channel is congested everybody gets throttled back to their fair share). That way if there is congestion everybody gets throttled back and when there is not congestion you can run full steam. The risk with the throttle is that they will overuse it and not upgrade the system to keep up with traffic loads.

The other thing is to look at the numbers. The increased Mbps is NOT costing them all that much money (hardware or transit). Again, I will point to the 10K numbers, $146 million in costs(transit and hardware) for $4.2 BILLION in revenues. The costs of the extra Mbps is really a drop in the bucket. While labor is not included in those numbers, the increase in labor costs (excluding initial installation) will be minimal(the customer/labor ratio will remain essentially constant). It is a pretty safe bet that they will spend far more on PR expenses to recover from this mess, than the increase in labor would have been to manage the the extra equipment.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299753 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:25:48 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299633
I'd be very supportive of a cap during peak times only.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299633 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:58:57 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299363
That the majority of customers use their bandwidth during peak hours, I would agree with. However, if you talk to the majority of high bandwidth users(the so called "bandwidth hogs") they are specifically avoiding peak traffic hours. They do this for two main reasons. First with all the congestion during peak hours they really do not get much downloaded (GB/hr) during those hours. Second ISPs have (for years) watched who is causing the problem(congestion) during peak hours on the channel and tend to go after those people first. Essentially if you do not cause a problem for us(the ISP) we will leave you alone. So the monthly caps do not address the congestion issue.

As far as streaming goes: the majority (at least today) of high bandwidth users are also usually on the high end of tech savvy. Virtually all streaming video can be saved to disk(if you are skilled enough). So for the tech savvy there is no need to stream during peak hours. When the less tech savvy users (non "bandwidth hogs") start streaming they will be increasing the load on the channel. As pandora pointed out, they are still below the caps. This means that peak Mbps will go up significantly without breaking the caps and you still need to upgrade the system to handle the load. Again it is usually not the few(1%) "bandwidth hogs" which are downloading a lot during non peak hours that are causing the congestion. It is the majority (85%?) all downloading a little bit (relative) all at the same time (peak hours) that causes the congestion.

Again I would point you to TWC's 10K, they are spending $146 million (for HSI hardware, bandwidth, etc) for revenues from HSI of $4.2 BILLION.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22299363 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:46:29 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298962
People who regularly use a lot of bandwidth during peak hours are harming their neighbors IMO.

The case I responded to was a poster who admitted to using torrents to download HD video programs. Generally this is copyrighted material downloaded illegally. The usage was very high. He tried to explain it by claiming he had a lot of PC's.

I have a lot more PC's on my LAN, probably more game consoles, and also currently 6 VOIP accounts and use far less than half his bandwidth. I was pointing out that his use is excessive, despite his justification.

My provider (Comcast) has provided a definition of excessive as 250GB per month, which I think is very fair.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298962 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:50:52 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298883 said by Lazlow:

Downloading EXCLUSIVELY between 11pm and 8am a 5Mbps customer can download over 500GB a month without slowing down his neighbors or costing the ISP anything extra. This is why the monthly GB cap does not address the issues of ISP costs or congestion.While the logic here is true, most people use their bandwidth during peak times... that's why they're called peak times.

The charge that is often made here is that bandwidth restrictions (either though caps or metered billing) is in direct response to demand caused by streaming video.

So either:

1) Everyone here is wrong and streaming video is not the concern, and capacity can be managed by pushing heavy transfers outside of peak hours.

or

2) The concern really is due to massively concurrent streaming video (ie, all concentrated in peak evening viewing times), and the per-GB numbers are based around the costs to expand the capacity of the pipe to meet peak demand.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298883 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:26:47 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298797
ISPs do not pay by the GB they pay by peak Mbps. So ANY amount of GB download during non peak hours costs the ISP absolutely nothing (0) extra. Both the transit costs and the hardware costs are solely determined by peak Mbps.

Downloading EXCLUSIVELY between 11pm and 8am a 5Mbps customer can download over 500GB a month without slowing down his neighbors or costing the ISP anything extra. This is why the monthly GB cap does not address the issues of ISP costs or congestion. There are methods to control peak hour congestion (costs). One of these is to use proticol agnostic throttling during peak hours, Comcast now uses this during peak hours. The reason cable companies are pushing caps so hard is to protect their video product from the huge competition that is rapidly growing on the internet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22298797 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:02:13 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22296951 said by Anonymous_:

only 50% is p2p got to watch my tv shows in Crisp HD(and other shows download for every one eles in the house)I run 9 PC's in my home, 2 DVR's, we game, watch youtube, watch internet content legally downloaded on to our DVR's from DirecTV and we use about 40GB per month.

The problem with your consumption, is it isn't "normal". Most homes download a few GB per month. The use my family gets from Comcast is much higher than normal, what you are doing is significantly higher network use.

When a bunch of neighbors have significant above "normal" use the provider must either limit access (put on caps) or build infrastructure (increase costs to customers beyond what would be justified for a "normal" residential user).

Torrent HD content may be nice (I've never used torrent so have no idea), however it likely isn't legally obtained.

Why should your neighbors suffer lower internet performance or higher bills to permit your probable theft of copyrighted video programs?
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22296951 Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:56:11 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22295381 said by Nerdtalker:

said by NOCMan:

How about quit stealing content.

There are plenty of free legal alternatives now.

Please don't start with that nonsense, I implore you.

High bandwidth use != infringing use. It's that simple.
the only option for "OTA TV" is internet or
TW rip off 50$ or more for basic cable is a rip off as most of the channels they get for free

200+GB is normal internet useage
as there is 6 computers

about 40GB permonth percomputer = 200GB

my brother and my Cousin game that they play uses 3mbps Total :o]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22295381 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:57:59 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22295320 said by NOCMan:

How about quit stealing content.

There are plenty of free legal alternatives now.
Please don't start with that nonsense, I implore you.

High bandwidth use != infringing use. It's that simple.
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22295320 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:45:03 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294327 said by NOCMan:

How about quit stealing content.

Hmmm. Don't assume he is stealing because he is using P2P. To many legit things to get now and plenty of alternatives that are free. I use P2P for Linux distros and a variety of other legit stuff.

I have argued for years now that streaming media would come into its own and caps were a way to squash this. ISP's are starting to directly compete with old cable TV business models and these cable companies are not happy realizing what if's. What if most people move from current cable television to online television? Cable TV companies and even at&t, which is now deploying u-verse, will lose customers to the internet side as more and more people drop the current TV business model for an internet TV. These companies realize that they control the internet ISP side. You can guess what the answer is to stop these what ifs, yep caps and overage charges. Especially, as streaming media quality increases. As the speeds increase so to will quality which will put more people over or beyond caps. Anyone here imagine watching on demand streamed video content over the internet 15 years ago?
--
To talk much and arrive nowhere is the same as climbing a tree to catch a fish.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294327 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:12:18 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294088 said by NOCMan:

How about quit stealing content.

There are plenty of free legal alternatives now.
I have him beat and its all legit. technet subscription, linux distros and hulu.

no disconnection notice hear yet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294088 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:56:36 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294050
There are plenty of free legal alternatives now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22294050 Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:42:30 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22292518 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22292518 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:17:27 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291739 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291739 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:54:14 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291718 --
Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291718 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:48:58 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291621 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291621 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:22:01 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291578 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291578 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:12:22 EDT Re: they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291486 said by Anonymous_:

April 2009 (Incoming: 200278 MB / Outgoing: 86134 MB)
same here. guess they leave areas where FIOS is being deployed alone.

March 2009 (Incoming: 97391 MB / Outgoing: 206600 MB)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291486 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:51:54 EDT they have not boot me off yet http://www.dslreports.com/forum/they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291350
only 50% is p2p got to watch my tv shows in Crisp HD(and other shows download for every one eles in the house)

Rest of it is youtube,web pages,gamming . etc... from the other computers that others use

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/they-have-not-boot-me-off-yet-22291350 Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:24:29 EDT