Fergless
join:2008-04-19
Toronto, ON |  reply to planiwa
IKNS
Very good post, Planiwa, very informative.
To bad all modems didn't show what DSLAM they're connected to like the 2Wire 2700HG B, saves a lot of guesswork. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| said by Fergless  :Very good post, Planiwa, very informative. To bad all modems didn't show what DSLAM they're connected to like the 2Wire 2700HG B, saves a lot of guesswork. Ironically, the 2Wire modems suffer more than others from IKNS latency.
The SpeedTouch modems report the Vendor very clearly.
The Aztech modem says: (For an IKNS DSLAM)
ATUC Vendor Code: 494B4E53 ATUC Revision: 2
ATUC ghsVid: b5 00 49 4b 4e 53 01 00
I wonder if any others are getting those same codes from their Aztech modems --
telnet 192.168.1.1
login: root
Password: admin
cat /proc/*/*m_s* |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC
1 edit | Thanks,
There is huge gray zone regarding this stuff planiwa.
Unfortunately not many people know the details.
And I bought new modem for my home DSL, too - just to "fix" the issue.
My old modem is still working fine ... but not on my line 
I believe these remotes are designed or "ready" for ADSL2+ but I have no information how Bell control these ADSL2+ profiles, are they available for wholesalers and how all management stuff standard ADSL vs ADSL2+ looks like.
In meanwhile we have some cases with similar scenario and only way to handle them is to ask many times Bell people until acceptable speeds are established.
Usually, on first attempt they drop the profile to 512 (you know that the US profile steps are 512 then 800 nothing between) and put AL2 at the same time if it was AL1 initially.
Also, depending of the modem and other things, 800k on US may be tested - but as you said the sync speeds are in 700k range.
T1nART's modem hooks at 768 and lantern displays 4dB NM.
I tested/reported to Bell some modems that not sync at all or sync very low speeds.
I don't think it would be a good idea to start speculating which modem is good which not because all these modems work just fine on other remotes.
Thanks
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T1nART
join:2009-04-26
Canada
1 edit | reply to planiwa
Re: Is Acanac as good as they claim to be...
ADSL Statistics
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 7.4 6.0
Attenuation (dB): 9.0 19.5
Output Power (dBm): 9.7 12.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5728 1020
Rate (Kbps): 5056 736
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 159 24
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 8 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 8
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 2162525 2162523
Super Frame Errors: 0 0
RS Words: 147051766 18381445
RS Correctable Errors: 14582 310476
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A
HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 438369186 0
Data Cells: 32480931 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 4 0
Total SES: 4 0
Total UAS: 62 0
It seems to be the problem that Planiwa has referred to...very informative post. Oh well, I won't fuss with it...
PN: Thanks again for all your work. Do apologize if I seem to be a hardass at times... |
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Fergless
join:2008-04-19
Toronto, ON
 ·Acanac
2 edits | reply to planiwa
2Wire & IKNS
Ironically, the 2Wire modems suffer more than others from IKNS latency. How do you figure that?
I was under the impression it was just reported that way as 2Wires could actually see the problem, showing the DSLAM.
Clue me in if you will.
From my stats:
DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate: 5056 kbps
Upstream Rate: 800 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 16.0 dB (Downstream), 15.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 41.6 dB (Downstream), 26.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 19.7 dBm (Downstream), 11.9 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0x0F} Vendor: {ALCB} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info: 0/35
The details you got for the Aztech on IKNS, think that's valid?
If so it'd be really helpful. |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC
| Fergie,
Fortunately, you are on ALCB not IKNS type.
What 2Wires do on IKNS - they perform longer pings.
The whole picture then looks like Interleave, regardless the profile on Bell Lantern is set .
Sometimes the profile in question is Fast Path but 2Wire reports it like interleave and pings ARE like interleave. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| reply to Acanac PN
Re: IKNS
The Aztech modems are ADSL2+ capable.
But even a plain ADSL modem should not be given false data from the DSLAM. These DSLAM devices are indeed broken.
Bell reportedly does not consider this a serious problem. Apparently they only see a problem of slight reduction in US rate, and of slightly higher latency. The vast majority of Sympatico customers are unaware of their sync rate and their latency (only with certain modems).
In any case, I would imagine that if a Bell user did actually complain about only getting 736 kb/s instead of 800, he could be persuaded to switch to a higher profile plan. Wholesale ISPs are not allowed to offer faster plans!
So, in a twisted way, if one regards Wholesalers as competition, one might consider it a competitive advantage for Bell to have this problem and not fix it.
I do not see the major problem with IKNS as limited to slightly longer latency and slightly lower US speed. The more serious problem is the confusion and anxiety caused by the false readings of these devices, and the time and money wasted by those who are unaware of the real problem, and who try to fix the problems falsely implied by IKNS. Such efforts may include unnecessarily purchaing modems or trying to fix nonexistent wiring problems. To say nothing of all the time consumed communicating with tech support staff.
If tech support staff are aware of the signature of an IKNS device, the customer needs to suffer none of all that fear, uncertainty, and doubt. :-)
Are Acanac tech support staff aware of this IKNS problem? It's quite simple, really:
Path Mode is Interleaved -- even though the profile says FAST.
US SNRM==6
US Attn == 20 or more
US Attn appears to be similar to DS Margin, while
DS Attn appears to be similar to US Margin.
This tends to result in a situation where the US Attn appears to be greater than the DS Attn. If we understand what Attenuation is, and how both it and US/DS DMT relate to frequency, then we know that it is quite impossible for US Attn. to be larger than DS Attn. Typically, DS Attn. is about twice the US Attn.
Does the Lantern data accessible to Acanac support staff identify the ATU-C device/vendor?
It might be worth following up on that Vendor code that the Aztech modem shows.
So, this afternoon I went to a site that is IKNS-afflicted.
This is how the line looks to the SpeedTouch modem:
Channel Mode : Interleaved
Total Available Bandwidth Cells/s kbit/s
Downstream : 11924 5056
Upstream : 1886 800
Intrinsic/Actual and Maximum Bandwidth % kbit/s
Downstream : 45 11040
Upstream : 78 1020
Bearer Generic Info Downstream Upstream
Margin (dB) : 28.5 6.0
Attenuation (dB) : 7.0 28.0
OutputPower (dBm) : 7.0 12.5
Vendor Chipset Local Remote
Country : B5 B5
Vendor : BDCM IKNS
For comparison, I connected a Speedstream 6520 to the same line:
Sync Rate : 5056 736
Margin (dB) : 26.0 6.0
Attenuation (dB) : 7.5 28.0
OutputPower (dBm) : 1.5 6.0
I didn't have a chance to test the latency on the 6520 this time.
Note that the SpeedTouch syncs at 800, whereas the Speedstream only syncs at 736.
The SpeedTouch displays Channel Mode (Interleaved Path), Capacity (RCO), and the DSLAM device vendor: IKNS.
But not the Speedstream.
I do know that despite the fact that all display "Interleaved", none of Aztech, SpeedTouch, or TP-Link experience high latency.
BAS latency is 12ms for the Aztech, SpeedTouch, and TP-Link.
So, can people who have Aztech modems and are connected to IKNS DSLAMS please post their ATUC Vendor Codes and ATUC ghsVid?
Perhaps they are similar to:
ATUC Vendor Code: 4753504E ATUC Revision: 1
ATUC ghsVid: ff b5 47 53 50 4e 00 08
here's how:
telnet 192.168.1.1
root
admin
cat /proc/*/*m_s*
exit
Thanks! |
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darknestgirl
join:2008-08-11
Montreal, QC
2 edits | reply to T1nART
Re: Is Acanac as good as they claim to be...
Hi planiwa that's what i got when i look at the ATUC vendor code and ghsvid
 |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
1 edit | IKNS -- DSLAM Vendor Codes
said by darknestgirl :47 50 53 4e Thanks.
47 50 53 4e =
G P S N
Which looks like a typo for GSPN :-) :-)
BTW, the ATUR code is always
54 53 54 43 =
T S T C
Here is a partial list of DSLAM (and modem) Vendor Codes:
41 4C 43 42 = ALCB Alcatel (STMicroelectronics)
41 4E 44 56 = ANDV Analog Devices
42 44 43 4D = BDCM Broadcom
47 53 50 4E = GSPN Globespan
49 4b 4e 53 = IKNS Ikanos
49 46 54 4E = IFTN Infineon (Huawei)
53 54 4D 49 = STMI STMicroelectronics
54 53 54 43 = TSTC Texas Instruments (TX State Technical College)
54 4D 4D 42 = TMMB Thomson Multimedia Broadband
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC | Thanks |
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T1nART
join:2009-04-26
Canada
1 edit | Acanac is pretty good!
ADSL Statistics
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 6.6 6.0
Attenuation (dB): 9.0 29.0
Output Power (dBm): 9.8 12.7
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 5472 1020
Rate (Kbps): 5056 704
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 159 23
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 8 16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 8
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 65245148 65245146
Super Frame Errors: 96 4
RS Words: 141702834 17712829
RS Correctable Errors: 122224 4720006
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 4905 N/A
HEC Errors: 17 0
OCD Errors: 1 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 341383910 0
Data Cells: 508749016 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 12 0
Total SES: 2 0
Total UAS: 49 0
My connection has been holding steady at 5Mb/s down, and 700Kb/s up for the past month or so...
The best that it can sync at. Thanks for all the help PN! |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC | reply to T1nART
Re: Is Acanac as good as they claim to be...
Good, thanks
--
We Rock |
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T1nART
join:2009-04-26
Canada
| reply to T1nART
Acanac PN...Please help!
My download speeds have gone down to 4.4 Mb/s
and my uploads speeds have gone down to 608 Kb/s.
Here are my status:
ADSL Statistics
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 5.3 6.0
Attenuation (dB): 12.0 16.5
Output Power (dBm): 9.7 12.5
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4704 1020
Rate (Kbps): 4416 608
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 139 20
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 8 8
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 8
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 88144 88142
Super Frame Errors: 0 0
RS Words: 5993858 749207
RS Correctable Errors: 5353 8338
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A
HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 15607006 0
Data Cells: 616474 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 0 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 31 0
I've tried everything... Rebooting the modem/router, resetting it... Nothing works...
What's going on... |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| said by T1nART :SNR Margin (dB): 5.3 6.0 Attenuation (dB): 12.0 16.5 Rate (Kbps): 4416 608 Super Frames: 88144 88142 RS Correctable Errors: 5353 8338 RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A I've tried everything... Rebooting the modem/router, resetting it... Nothing works... What's going on... Rain? |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC | T1nART,
Is your modem connected? (Jun 26, about 9am)
Lantern displays all zeroes.
I believe, the reason of your trouble is shown here:
"SNR Margin (dB): 5.3 6.0"
Both streams seem to be on syncing at lower speeds because of that. |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC
1 edit | reply to T1nART
T, Yes, that is the case:
Line Status: In Service UpTime: 0
Line Profile Name: al2_d5056-5056-384_u800-800-256 Last State Change: Fri Jun 26 11:18:30 EDT 2009
Operational Status Speed (Kbs) Relative Capacity Occupation (%) Noise Margin (0..31 dB) Signal Power (0..20 dBm) Attenuation (0..60 dB) Block count
UpStream
608 79 6.0 12.0 5.0 1168962.0
DownStream
4192 85 6.0 10.0 0.0 2814079.0
--------------------------------
Something wrong there.
The attenuation is good 5/0 db, but NM are bad; It could not operate at full profile speed.
Please check at your side again (cables, jack, modem and so on) and if nothing helps, send a request to support@acanac.com, then let me know the ticket number to follow-up.
Thanks |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S | Sure looks like wiring, diagnostically aggravated by IKNS.
If T1nART can do modem check at demarc, that would be my recommendation. |
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Acanac PN
Acanac Support
Premium
join:2008-10-27
Montreal, QC
| Unfortunately, the IKNS originated issues for non-ADSL2+ service are still in the gray zone. As far as I know, the fixing seem to be trying different modems and squeezing the profiles, even at 0db att. 
I am on IKNS, too (50m from it) and I have no full upload sync neither. |
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planiwa
join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
| If it were my line, I'd use an ST516 and check at the Demarc.
The presence of a lying IKNS does not protect from actual line noise and errors. But it does make it harder to diagnose such problems.
This is a good illustration of how the IKNS bugs have more serious consequences than generally portrayed by Bell.
--
»[RFC] Connection / Speed Problems Checklist |
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T1nART
join:2009-04-26
Canada
| Here are my stats as of now:
ADSL Statistics
Mode: G.DMT
Type: Interleave
Line Coding: Trellis On
Status: No Defect
Link Power State: L0
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin (dB): 5.3 6.0
Attenuation (dB): 13.0 23.0
Output Power (dBm): 9.7 12.8
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4384 1020
Rate (Kbps): 4096 608
K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 129 20
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 8 8
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 8
D (interleaver depth): 0 0
Delay (msec): 0 0
Super Frames: 9084 9082
Super Frame Errors: 0 0
RS Words: 617778 77197
RS Correctable Errors: 19 3110
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A
HEC Errors: 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0
Total Cells: 1492323 0
Data Cells: 39694 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
Total ES: 22 0
Total SES: 22 0
Total UAS: 594 0
PN: The ticket I sent into support is: UYZ-32866
If you can get my issues resolved asap. That would be great.
Thanks mate! |
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