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Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM

[Help] 02 Grand Prix EVAP problem (P0440)

Good afternoon everyone!

I have a 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix SE (3.1L)

Yesterday, I went to turn my car on after being parked for half an hour and I got a check engine light. I grabbed my OBD-II tool and pulled a P0440 (Evaporative Emission Control System Malfunction). Doing a tad bit of research, it looks like the most common cause of this problem is the fuel cap. I pulled my cap off and checked the gasket and it looks in decent condition. I bought this new cap only a few months ago and it hasn't given me problems before.

I took a look at where the EVAP canister vent solenoid is, and it's connected to the PCV. A week prior to getting the check engine light, I decided to replace the PCV. Could that cause the DTC? I took a look at the PCV and it looks fine, other than that it seems a tiny bit loose in the grommet. I was going to replace the grommet and elbow, but I couldn't find one locally today.

I looked under the vehicle near the fuel tank and fuel lines and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, although I probably wouldn't know what to look for.

Any ideas on what I should check next? I would take a look at the EVAP canister, but that's mounted on top of the fuel tank, and it requires the tank to be removed to access it. I cleared the DTC and I haven't been able to get it to come back yet, although it is my understanding that the EVAP system is only tested under certain conditions. Should I still replace the PCV grommet and elbow?

Thanks again,
Nick


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
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join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
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1 edit
The most common cause is the Fuel Cap loose (didn't tighten it up enough at the last fill up?) or the gasket is possibly not sealing, try a little silicone spray on the rubber gasket and tighten the cap at least 4 to 6 clicks.

Yes, if the grommet is loose around the PCV valve, I'd suggest replacing it. Most likely it will be a Dealer Item unless it is a very plain jane common size/shape grommet.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
said by Doctor Olds:

The most common cause is the Fuel Cap loose (didn't tighten it up enough at the last fill up?) or the gasket is possibly not sealing, try a little silicone spray on the rubber gasket and tighten the cap at least 4 to 6 clicks.

Yes, if the grommet is loose around the PCV valve, I'd suggest replacing it. Most likely it will be a Dealer Item unless it is a very plain jane common size/shape grommet.
I checked the fuel cap and it seemed tight enough, and I think I would've seen a problem sooner (I'd put about 140 miles on that tank of gas). I always do 4-5 clicks, just to ensure that it's tight enough. I'll try some silicone spray on the fuel cap gasket and the filler neck gasket. I'll definitely replace the PCV grommet as well.

If this helps any (it might, heh), I noticed a strong smell of gasoline a few (5-6) days ago. I haven't noticed anything since, though. Not sure if that is of any significance.

Thank you once again.


Doctor Olds
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1970 442 W30
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Well there is the possibility that the new cap could be defective. Brand new doesn't always mean that it is good as with all man-made items, it could just be a bad unit. It may be releasing pressure too soon or not holding the proper vacuum levels. There are gas cap checkers on emission testing machines if your State uses testing. A Dealer may also have a cap tester.

Do you still have the old gas cap? If yes, you may want to put it back on for a week to see if you smell gas again or get a repeat code set.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?


StNickless

@tmodns.net
reply to Nick125
That IS NOT a PO0440

It's a PO1440

Recheck,try again.

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
reply to Doctor Olds
said by Doctor Olds:

Well there is the possibility that the new cap could be defective. Brand new doesn't always mean that it is good as with all man-made items, it could just be a bad unit. It may be releasing pressure too soon or not holding the proper vacuum levels. There are gas cap checkers on emission testing machines if your State uses testing. A Dealer may also have a cap tester.

Do you still have the old gas cap? If yes, you may want to put it back on for a week to see if you smell gas again or get a repeat code set.
I went ahead and put the old gas cap back on, but I'm not sure when the engine will try to do an EVAP system check again. I really hope that it isn't the EVAP canister or one of those harder-to-get-to-parts. I believe on this car, you have to drop the tank to get to the canister.

I did a second look at the under carriage and attempted to follow the gasoline lines and what I believe was the EVAP purge lines and I didn't see any obvious damage to them. I don't think the issue would be something like a small crack, since the DTC indicates a large EVAP leak.

As far as the cap goes, do you think that if I took the cap in to the dealer, they'd be willing to look at it without charging me an arm and a leg? (I still have nasty memories of paying $250 for a new remote and key) I'll be stopping by there tomorrow to pick up the grommet, since I haven't found anywhere else that has it locally.

Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.
Nick

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
reply to StNickless
said by StNickless :

That IS NOT a PO0440

It's a PO1440

Recheck,try again.
I had Autozone check the code, my neighbor check and I've checked it myself and they've all returned the same code. I'll check it again once the DTC pops up again, just to be sure (I reset the DTC earlier).

Thanks,
Nick

matt5

join:2001-10-06
Lagrangeville, NY
A p01440 does not even exist don't waste your time
nor does a p1440 for that car.

You can however check for a p0443 or p0449.

Pretty much all you can do is as DR said the gas cap, Vaseline also works, everything else will require a scan tool or a ton of luck.

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
reply to Nick125
Well, I wasn't able to track down a PCV grommet. None of the auto stores had them and the only dealer with one was 150 miles away. I think I'll just order one online and be done with it. I haven't been able to get the EVAP system test to rerun yet, so no word on whether anything I've tried so far has worked.


StNickless

@tmodns.net
reply to matt5
Every OBD2 code listed....for your viewing pleasure...

»www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes ··· es.shtml

Hmm, 1440...
Evaporative system leak :)
Or, as they put it on that site...

briand069

join:2003-04-13
Vacaville, CA
reply to Nick125
Had you just filled up with gas prior to this code appearing? The code also could mean a plugged EVAP canister My parents have a Malibu that had a defect that caused liquid gas to carry into the EVAP can and casue the gas smell and a code. I can't remember exactly what casued the probelm thogh, but the dealer/shop thought he was topping off the tank which he wasn't.
And yes, a P0440 code does exist...


Cho Baka
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reply to StNickless
said by StNickless :

Every OBD2 code listed....for your viewing pleasure...

»www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes ··· es.shtml

Hmm, 1440...
Evaporative system leak :)
Or, as they put it on that site...
StNickeless,

You ignored the relevant part of Matt5's post:
for that car

Also,
P0440 is a fairly generic EVAP DTC. It does not directly specify a leak.
Suggesting that it does is irresponsible.
If this or any DTC is detected, a repair manual should be checked to see the DTC detection conditions relevant to the DTC as it applies to that model.

P0440 does not equal P1440. There is no 'as they put it'.
All Evap systems do not have the ability to detect P1440.

P0440 may be caused by a stuck open purge VSV, however it may also be caused by a number of other Evap system related parts.

--
Striving for Parfection.

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
reply to briand069
said by briand069:

Had you just filled up with gas prior to this code appearing? The code also could mean a plugged EVAP canister My parents have a Malibu that had a defect that caused liquid gas to carry into the EVAP can and casue the gas smell and a code. I can't remember exactly what casued the probelm thogh, but the dealer/shop thought he was topping off the tank which he wasn't.
And yes, a P0440 code does exist...
Nope. I'd filled up about 130 miles before the check engine light came on.


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
reply to Nick125
Im pretty much the expert with this car now, lol..

It's almost certainly one of the following...

-Purge solenoid
-Purge valve
-Vacuum fitting on the vacuum line going to the TB
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Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
said by Vamp:

Im pretty much the expert with this car now, lol..

It's almost certainly one of the following...

-Purge solenoid
-Purge valve
-Vacuum fitting on the vacuum line going to the TB
Where is the purge valve located? Also, isn't the solenoid the one in the engine connected to the PCV? What would you recommend to test the solenoid other than blindly replacing it?

Thanks!


Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
kudos:1
I dont know much about the 3.1L as far as locations of things... As for testing it can probably be done with a volt meter to determine if its stuck open or closed. But I think the part is only like $20 on a site like rockauto.

--
20/20 FIOS || MSN Msgr: scott001^gmail_com

Cheezz

join:2003-10-17

1 edit
reply to Nick125
The evap vent solenoid and charcoal canister are behind the left rear wheel next to the filler pipe you can get to them fairly easy. It's not uncommon for that vent solenoid to stick open,it's open when the vehicle is off and so when the pcm commands it to close to do the evap test it doesn't close causing the P0440.


Cho Baka
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reply to Vamp
said by Vamp:

I dont know much about the 3.1L as far as locations of things... As for testing it can probably be done with a volt meter to determine if its stuck open or closed.
A voltmeter is not an effective tool for testing a VSV.

Of course there are different types of VSV, but basically a VSV is going to either normally open or normally closed.

To test it you use 12V to manually energize it and check if the air flows/doesn't flow as appropriate.
--
Striving for Parfection.

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
reply to Nick125
Well, apparently hell car decides it wants to be...hell car. I've been having problems getting it to start the last few times I've tried to drive it. It'll crank over and start for about 2-3 seconds, then the engine will begin to idle roughly and die out. Is this related to the EVAP problem or do you think it's something else?

Thanks!
Nick


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
Any new stored codes?

Smelling fuel again?

Have you looked for a possible leak right after starting it/trying to start it a few times?

If the evap system were pulling liquid fuel (instead of vapors) that could cause a very rough idle, however, I am thinking it mat be unrelated.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Nick125

join:2004-03-08
Albuquerque, NM
said by Doctor Olds:

Any new stored codes?

Smelling fuel again?

Have you looked for a possible leak right after starting it/trying to start it a few times?

If the evap system were pulling liquid fuel (instead of vapors) that could cause a very rough idle, however, I am thinking it mat be unrelated.
I tried to pull codes, MIL and pending, and there were not any codes stored. I didn't smell fuel and I tried to look for a leak, but I didn't see one. I'll check it in the morning when there is better light.

Why would the EVAP system pull liquid fuel in? It's at about 3/5th of a tank, so it doesn't seem high enough to me to start pulling liquid fuel in, but what do I know?

If it was unrelated (which its starting to sound like), where would you check first?


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
said by Nick125:

If it was unrelated (which its starting to sound like), where would you check first?
Ignition system, spark plugs, and sensors. Primary and secondary ignition patterns are helpful if you have a scope available to see what the system is doing. Then the fuel delivery system next.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Cheezz

join:2003-10-17
reply to Nick125
To add with whats been said for the starting issue. See if there's fuel in the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. The diaphragm can rupture and fuel can get by into the intake.