Charter Reorganization Gets Ugly > This could get interest

reply to AMDUSER

Re: This could get interest

reply to hottboiinnc
There are co-ops that own cable companies, true. Just up the road from my hometown is GVTC territory. Fiber (up to 20/3 residential, 25/3 or so commercial) in some places, otherwise cable (up to 12 Mbps) or DSL (up to 5 Mbps). But they're a coop, and TWC is now competing with them.

As for Charter and the big telcos, the telcos can't get rid of copper plant; they'd be breaking regulations if they did so. Plus, ripping stuff out is expensive. Not to mention the fact that telcos no longer do cable generally and it would require a retraining of the work force to fix this.

Additionally, copper phone lines are unshared all the way to the DSLAM. They could mess with technology to get decent speeds out further or whatever. Case in point: extended range DSL and VDSL...

reply to hottboiinnc
There's no law against Microsoft or Google buying out other companies, right? Do they still get in trouble for it? very yes.

As for cheap bandwidth if you play your cards right, name me a big data center in STL. Seriously, look around. Cheap bandwidth is available in internet hubs. NYC is one of them...transatlantic cables and an internet exchange or two mean that Cablevision is in a major market for every provider. The providers compete for CV's money, or CV peers with the smaller ones. End of story.

The nearest big IX...and it's not the biggest one...to STL is KC. Several providers are there, but it's not as much of a major market except for budget providers. Or maybe Chicago's nearer. It has good deals on bandwidth, but it's still a ways away.

Again, see which companies offer STL as "on-net". The list is smaller than you'd think, and thus bandwidth may be more expensive.

reply to hottboiinnc
hottboiinnc

I think TWC would have to talk a really good game to get their stockholders to go along with them spending any more money. They are already looking at a considerable reinvestment in their systems (upgrading to D3) which they have already shown reluctance to do, reason for low caps. Their stockholders already got mad when they found out that there were not going to be any dividends this year(look at the massive drop in TWC stock earlier this year). I just do not see the stockholders allowing TWC to incur more debt than is absolutely necessary, no matter how good the deal could be. The other thing to consider is that credit is MUCH more expensive and harder to get now, than it was when they got Adelphia. In addition to that they were part of TW at that time and had a lot more assets to back up the purchase.

I did not say I wanted a venture capital group to buy, just that they could. Especially if they can get it for "pennies on the dollar".

You should go look at the reason for the drop. That wasn't their problem with the payouts.

reply to iansltx
VZ is getting rid of the copper plant.

SO it's not against regulation. They're replacing with Fiber. ATT could do the same if they took over an HFC network. move everyone over and BOOM! no more sharing. Sell the network off and or close it. There wouldn't be a need for it as they could upgrade the entire HFC network cheaper than what laying full FTTH or VDSL would be.

You wouldn't have to train anyone. Cable Companies are non-union and the telcos would love that.

Plus how hard is it to train someone to hook up a cable modem? screw the coax into the cable modem...hook the ethernet cord to the modem and into the computer plug modem in. good to go.

reply to iansltx
Cogent is there. Just because you don't have ATT or Sprint bandwidth available doesn't mean anything. Hell look at my city. We have Cogent and many others that have On-net buildings. L3 even has several centers here.

And out of getting in trouble the only real trouble anyone got into was Google and their shady business of DoubleClick. MSFT doesn't really have any problems in the US only in the EU.

reply to hottboiinnc
There's more to running a cableco than user installs. If there wasn't, cable guys would get paid $10/hr.

As for HFC vs. DSL the network topology is different. Cable is a shared bus, and thus all equipment would have to be replaced from where the fiber stops to get unshared.

As to VZ getting rid of copper plant, they're just leaving it hanging. Fiber is too expensive to install unless someoneis going to get fiber based services with it, at least while your copper plant is still good.

Again, if it was easy to run a cableco, everyone would do it. Oh wait...WindJamer...let's discount that joke. Sorta like Fairpoint with DSL I'm afraid.

And why would you buy a network, then sell it off? Not sure I'm getting you on that.

Also, found any big cheap datacenters in St. Louis yet? There are a few but the bandwidth prices reflect being a secondary market.

reply to hottboiinnc
Shady with DoubleClick? I'm rejoicing over the fact that DoubleClick's pure evil is being diluted.

As for Cogent, please give me real bandwidth. Don't get me wrong, Cogent is cheap, but look at the fiber path; you're not at a hub. With the peering disputes Cogent has had (they say they're over but they've got Tiscali, AT&T, Verizon and Savvis to tick off next) you just don't want to single-home. St. Louis is thus a secondary market; being Cogent-lit is nice but doesn't mean as much as you'd think.

reply to iansltx
If you want your data centers to search for them. Many are not listed as a Data Center or a Colo. and some are not listed period.

DSL is shared as well. It is shared at the DSLAM. The old claim that DSL is not shared needs to be given up on. ALL internet is shared and DSL CAN be slowed down if you add to many people to the DSLAM if there is not enough available bandwidth for everyone.

And as far as WindJamer? What about Charter now? they're a joke too. They're the stupid ones for buying all the areas they could for a prem. and then losing their ass on them. Broadstripe must be a joke too. They went to file for bankruptcy and came back with a new name- Just that. Broadstripe. Nobody would want to do business with the old name. What about Suddenlink? they changed their name several times and bought several small markets for a prem. and customers pay out the ass for those services.

Also Fairpoint DSL is only considered a joke by the people on this site and the Unions.

reply to iansltx
Cogent is in the same buildings as others. You should go search it out before knocking them. And it's not their fault they compete on dollar where ATT and VZ won't and charge a prem. for services. Hell I can get a Qwest T1 cheaper than going direct. And that's sad. Price is everything. Not provider.

On the whole datacenter thing, the burden of proof is on you since you mentioned cheap bandwidth in STL. Might be, but you mentioned it

As far as Cogent pricing goes, the problem is with sites that aren't right on their network. Cogent peering points are few and far between, so you might have to take a circuitous route to get to a given website. Additionally, in some cases you can get Level3 cheaper than Cogent, and L3 has a vastly superior network.

I have bought a few virtual private servers. One is on a Cogent-only connection. Others use a combination of networks that includes Comcast. One uses Level3 as a main carrier. Guess which one has the slowest connection to most sites?

Price isn't everything, otherwise everyone would be on Cogent. Then again, Cogent ain't the cheapest anymore in many locations. Check out iptelligent.com. Problem: nothing in STL.

»www.isp-planet.com/img/backbones···kMap.jpg

Cogent may not be the cheapest(do not know) but they are definitely in St. Louis.

»www.cogentco.com/us/network_pops.php

I noticed that. I apparently need to take a quick geography course from my thirteen-year-old brother; I was looking in the wrong place for St. Louis (KC and STL are on opposite sides of the state, who knew) and thus missed the fact that there's Cogent fiber running right through town.

reply to Big Dawg 23
It is also intresting that the US Trustee objected to the release of liability.

This could get very intresting with this.. Charter facing objections to Bankruptcy Plan.. (»www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/04/···329.html)

Maybe the settlement with Paul Allen will get investigated with him possibly getting to meet Joe Arpaio.. hmm..

From the article..»www.easybourse.com/bourse-actual···w-656245

"..The U.S. Trustee, calling for a change of language in the plan, said Charter did not explain the grounds for releasing its directors, financial advisers, former officers, attorneys, employees and other parties from liability.."