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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

3 recommendations

reply to Nick_L

Re: New posting requirement for anonymous posters

said by Nick_L:

And that's a big problem. You have just flipantly dismissed several intelligent posts strictly because you don't agree.
If I had, in all honesty, dismissed the concerns "flippantly" then we wouldn't really be having this discussion right now would we? No we wouldn't...I would have just closed the thread and been on my merry way doing other things like....oh I don't know....working, doing homework, playing with my kids, eating lunch, etc.

I let this thread be open because I thought it would be interesting, but so far everybody who has said I've offended the spirit of this forum or dismissed the intelligent posts have missed one thing; they are not in the majority of people.

If you want to get upset of what amounts to a very small change on an Internet chat forum go ahead, but don't call me flippant or suggest that I'm ignoring intelligent posts because at that point your just saying I'm dumb.

And with that we're done......
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!


81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:2
reply to ptrowski

said by ptrowski:

said by 81399672:

said by VR Laura:

I go with the tried-and-true method of most web forums of requiring ALL users to register to POST. Note, not to READ the forums, only to post. If an unregistered user's question has not already been answered, and is truly important to them, then they'll register.
That goes against the spirit of this board.
The spirit of this board is to help others and get advice. There are also numerous other websites across the web that offer the same advice.
If people don't like the requirements then a simple fix is to find another site that doesn't have the requirement. No one is being forced to use this site, including yourself.
It's Justin decision that people can post on this board without registering. Mod of a forum will not change that.


ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4
reply to 81399672

said by 81399672:

said by VR Laura:

I go with the tried-and-true method of most web forums of requiring ALL users to register to POST. Note, not to READ the forums, only to post. If an unregistered user's question has not already been answered, and is truly important to them, then they'll register.
That goes against the spirit of this board.
The spirit of this board is to help others and get advice. There are also numerous other websites across the web that offer the same advice.
If people don't like the requirements then a simple fix is to find another site that doesn't have the requirement. No one is being forced to use this site, including yourself.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org


Nick_L
Premium
join:2003-01-22
Pittsburgh, PA

2 recommendations

reply to Dennis

said by dark_star:
I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who didn't take their crazy pill today?
And that's a big problem. You have just flipantly dismissed several intelligent posts strictly because you don't agree. Certainly not the best way to moderate, in my humble opinion. But then, what do I know, I actually enjoyed a few of the odd threads.

The world in gereral needs less rigid structure, not more. I dont see the major harm that these so-called drive-by posts were causing. They were not spam, they weren't phishing attempts, and some were actually amusing.

I think the intelligent, knowlegeable regular posters here should be able to decide wether or not to answer a post or just leave it be. There is no rule that whizkid must respond to everyone that asks an electrical question. Besides, it's not like there are thousands of posts to wade through every day.

If there is a legetimate problem in a post, then, by all means, moderate. If not, I say leave it be.


81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:2
reply to VR Laura

said by VR Laura:

I go with the tried-and-true method of most web forums of requiring ALL users to register to POST. Note, not to READ the forums, only to post. If an unregistered user's question has not already been answered, and is truly important to them, then they'll register.
That goes against the spirit of this board.


VR Laura
Queen Of Cyberspace
Premium
join:2002-02-10
NYC
reply to Dennis

I go with the tried-and-true method of most web forums of requiring ALL users to register to POST. Note, not to READ the forums, only to post. If an unregistered user's question has not already been answered, and is truly important to them, then they'll register.
--
»www.queenofcyberspace.com/usenet



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5
reply to dark_star

said by dark_star:

The new requirement won't stop the trolls, but it will stop some legitimate posters. It would be more fair to simply turn off anonymous posting.
Are you making a joke? How could it possibly be more fair to turn off anonymous posting entirely (topic and reply) than just asking people to take a second to present their question in a thoughtful manner (ie photo, diagram, etc) if they want to post a new topic anonymously.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only one who didn't take their crazy pill today?
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!


Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to Phil

said by Phil:

The automotive forum has only been around for a few years (started in 2005 I believe).
I think he was just trying to establish that he was a vested member of the site.

I don't agree with his decisions but he's welcome to make them.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!


dark_star

join:2003-11-14
Louisville
kudos:1
reply to Dennis

Dennis wrote:
> From now on, if you want to post anonymously, you will
> need to attach a picture of the problem you are asking
> for help with.

I think this is well intended, but a bad idea. It won't stop the trolls. For example, the smoke detector post that you cite in a latter post could easily have posted a photo of a smoke detector.

Second, everyone does not own a digital camera.

The new requirement won't stop the trolls, but it will stop some legitimate posters. It would be more fair to simply turn off anonymous posting. That won't stop the trolls either, but at least it doesn't make a means test for anonymous posting.



Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Downers Grove, IL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to StNickless

said by StNickless :

If you really want, look back about 7-8 years ago and you'll find a user on this site named "Thorax".
Yep, that was me.
The automotive forum has only been around for a few years (started in 2005 I believe).


StNickless

@tmodns.net
reply to Dennis

If you really want, look back about 7-8 years ago and you'll find a user on this site named "Thorax".
Yep, that was me.

I deleted that account due to the absolute shit way the automotive forum is moderated.
In there, if you disagree with DoctorOlds your post gets deleted. He posts incorrect info probably on the order of 75% of the time, and he posts in nearly every thread.
How do I know?
I've been a master auto tech for 30 years, certs from GM, Isuzu, BMW, Toyota, etc.

I would pay for a IP log showing the mods IP's and Doctor Olds IP. Sometimes, you just know....

Now this brilliant manuver....

This is the last time I post on this site, the last time I visit this site, the last time I refer someone to this site.

It no longer is, what it was.



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

2 recommendations

reply to 81399672

said by 81399672:

Well it seems your new rule is violating the rule or I should say the spirit of this board. You might want to check with your "superior" before you put in rule that goes against what this board stands for.
True I did not check with anyone else before employing this rule. However, to be honest I do not feel that I need anyone to sign off on this matter other than myself. It is not overly egregious nor draconian; in addition to my previous points I also don't think it is of enough importance to bother them with.

As the moderator of this forum I feel it is well within my rights and abilities to dictate behaviour within this aforementioned forum. If that is an issue with anyone here they can go above my head and question the powers that be directly about my decisions.

I feel I keep a dialog open with you guys (this discussion thread is a great example) and that I am not to strict. However, if my decision that anonymous posters should include detailed pictures (digital, diagram, mspaint...whatever) is so unreasonable by your standards then I think perhaps your a little to close to the problem.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!


81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:2
reply to Dennis

Well it seems your new rule is violating the rule or I should say the spirit of this board. You might want to check with your "superior" before you put in rule that goes against what this board stands for.
--
i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet



Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
kudos:5

3 recommendations

reply to Dennis

A lot of you guys are funny.

A rule is not an immediate hard and fast definition of how things are going to be, however, I am defining it so that when I want to enforce it I can.

Yes rules can be enforced or not based upon a person's judgement. They are not all mighty commandments to which we must pray and worship. The trick is having somebody who can apply them when necessary and ignore them when they don't make sense.

Take this thread:
»unit locking up

Despite my new rule, I have not closed it thus far. The reason is because it seems to be generating an genuine give and take. That and the fact that I can't understand half of what was being said in there.

So having said all that (and having thought on it while sipping my coffee) I think I am going to modify the wording to strongly encourage a picture for an anonymous poster if they truly want help.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.

Visit the Judd Family website to see my kids!



z aXis
Premium
join:2003-01-23
Arlington Heights, IL
reply to Dennis

It's logical to assume that a person with a serious question that is looking for some serious help will have no problem with joining. A random anon post just clutters up the forum for serious questions. That isnt very difficult to understand is it?
--
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades



whizkid3
Premium,MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY
kudos:9
reply to Dennis

Brilliant idea. There should be no problem with registering prior to posting. Should one want to take advantage of the helpfulness of this forum, one should have to register. Give and take. Thanks Dennis.



exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3
reply to StNickless

said by StNickless :

said by exocet_cm:

You spelled Saint Nicholas wrong...
Anons are always off topic too....right ?
Always


--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." - Publilius Syrus
Ma blog: »www.johndball.com

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1

2 recommendations

reply to RadioDoc

said by RadioDoc:

Oh, I'm very aware of that. However the vast majority of the unregistered users here don't wander past the front page discussions or post in them, and whether they can post or not really doesn't affect page views anyway.

I'd rather see this energy put toward cleaning up the issues in the forums instead, most of which are caused by registered users and moderators.
I can't understand why so many anon trolls come here in the first place. Does this forum rank high for basic keywords on Google? Why don't trolls go to other registration mandated DIY Vbulletin board out there? or this the only home improvement DIY board whose mod has the patience of a religious prophet before locking or deleting?

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to RadioDoc

said by RadioDoc:

I'd rather see this energy put toward cleaning up the issues in the forums instead, most of which are caused by registered users and moderators.
Perhaps you should hang out here and spend your time trying to help the anon postings which don't make sense and the anon never shows back up.

It is possible that this isn't the best way to go about it. I would hate to see this forum changed to a private forum like the Health and Fitness forum? But that maybe the best solution. Help and answers for DSLR members only -- no drive by shooting!


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to sporkme

Oh, I'm very aware of that. However the vast majority of the unregistered users here don't wander past the front page discussions or post in them, and whether they can post or not really doesn't affect page views anyway.

I'd rather see this energy put toward cleaning up the issues in the forums instead, most of which are caused by registered users and moderators.



sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
reply to RadioDoc

said by RadioDoc:

Sadly, this site is already exclusionary and mean in many forums. Some are downright hostile to any new participants. Nothing is done about it and fatness' nice corporate missive is almost completely at odds with the reality. Restricting unregistered posting won't help that except to maybe keeping the few who complain about it from complaining.
Keep in mind anons generate ad revenue, registered users do not.

tcope
Premium
join:2003-05-07
Sandy, UT
kudos:2
reply to Dennis

Yeah, I have to agree that this "rule" makes no sense. If an anon poster is not clear then people can either choose to stop reading the post and move on or ask for more information if they wish to help.

To say that a picture is required from anon posters does not even address any problem that _might_ exist... and I don't think one does exist. The correct response would be to require a person to register... which is not a board rule at this time.

I read this forum for two reasons... to obtain knowledge and to help with knowledge. As such, an anon's post with limited information does not really adversely affect me in anyway.

(It's not like this forums see 100's of new threads every day)



StNickless

@tmodns.net
reply to exocet_cm

said by exocet_cm:

You spelled Saint Nicholas wrong...
Anons are always off topic too....right ?


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to james1

said by james1:

Also, some sage advice from a wize man.

said by fatness:

If your new suggestion involves restricting anonymous posting in some way, it's probably going to get locked or deleted.

Years ago people felt they belonged to a community here on the site and they welcomed newcomers. That's what drew me in and probably what drew you in, too --- unfailing friendliness, help, and welcome, offered freely by more people than you could shake a stick at.

But the world around us has changed, not all the changes are good, and the current "let's keep them out" attitude around us has affected the site. Adversely.

Today some people want to build walls around the site and want to keep others out. The easy target is anonymous posters, and we've seen thread after hostile thread suggesting ways to keep them off the site, or restrict their use of the site. This hostility is quite visible to new people, reading or posting here for the first time. It makes the site look exclusionary and mean.

Trying to turn away good information, good opinion, and good people is a terrible idea. That was never what this site is about, and it isn't now. New readers are wanted and welcomed here as always, and if they don't feel like going through the problem of setting up an account at first (or at all) their contributions are just as welcome as if they're longtime members. Anonymous posters have been and are a source of a tremendous amount of contributions to the community. Many members read and posted anonymously for awhile, and finally joined because they felt welcomed and they wanted to pitch in and help.

This is a living, online community that we're inviting people into. It's not a fortress we're trying to protect. We need more welcomes, less barbed wire.
Source: »[request] anonymous posting suggestions
Sadly, this site is already exclusionary and mean in many forums. Some are downright hostile to any new participants. Nothing is done about it and fatness' nice corporate missive is almost completely at odds with the reality. Restricting unregistered posting won't help that except to maybe keeping the few who complain about it from complaining. Very few people identify themselves on a forum with real life information so essentially almost everyone is an "anonymous poster".


exocet_cm
Free at last, free at last
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
kudos:3
reply to StNickless

You spelled Saint Nicholas wrong...



StNickless

@tmodns.net
reply to Dennis

Yet again a mindless solution to a nonexistant problem.

Registering will give you instant credibility....shyea, right...mmmk.

All anons are newbs....yep...ok...if you insist. This is where I should break out my milnet creds, but you just aren't proving it worthy of my time.

Show me a picture that proves your hot water heater isn't working, please....*waits*

Show me a picture that proves my 2 electrical outlets in the garage have no power.....*waits*

Get F'n real man.



Steve
I know your IP address
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5
reply to Dennis

*object*

Most people - including registered users - who post here are anonymous.

Could you actually mean "unregistered" ?



tahoejeff
Premium
join:2001-07-01
Wisconsin Dells, WI
reply to Dennis

that quote from 'fatness' really does say a lot about this site.
If the anon 'troll' posts to this forum are so numerous that they overburden the mods...bring on another mod.
I'm sorry that I'm commenting without actually knowing how often this happens. Maybe it's such a prevalent problem that this is a good idea.
I'd lean towards voting NO.
--
The Geek Shall Inherit the Earth



james1

join:2001-02-26

1 recommendation

reply to Dennis

Also, some sage advice from a wize man.

said by fatness:

If your new suggestion involves restricting anonymous posting in some way, it's probably going to get locked or deleted.

Years ago people felt they belonged to a community here on the site and they welcomed newcomers. That's what drew me in and probably what drew you in, too --- unfailing friendliness, help, and welcome, offered freely by more people than you could shake a stick at.

But the world around us has changed, not all the changes are good, and the current "let's keep them out" attitude around us has affected the site. Adversely.

Today some people want to build walls around the site and want to keep others out. The easy target is anonymous posters, and we've seen thread after hostile thread suggesting ways to keep them off the site, or restrict their use of the site. This hostility is quite visible to new people, reading or posting here for the first time. It makes the site look exclusionary and mean.

Trying to turn away good information, good opinion, and good people is a terrible idea. That was never what this site is about, and it isn't now. New readers are wanted and welcomed here as always, and if they don't feel like going through the problem of setting up an account at first (or at all) their contributions are just as welcome as if they're longtime members. Anonymous posters have been and are a source of a tremendous amount of contributions to the community. Many members read and posted anonymously for awhile, and finally joined because they felt welcomed and they wanted to pitch in and help.

This is a living, online community that we're inviting people into. It's not a fortress we're trying to protect. We need more welcomes, less barbed wire.
Source: »[request] anonymous posting suggestions


james1

join:2001-02-26

1 recommendation

reply to Dennis

said by Dennis:

Do you honestly think I:
1. Have enough time to read every single post on this site?
2. Am qualified enough to pass judgement on every scenario?
And that is exactly why I'm saying your rule isn't going to help you. Now if you're going to enforce your rule, you're going to have to delete any posts by anon users that dont include pictures, and they'll come back asking why their post was deleted, you'll tell them why and lock it, they'll make a post that they dont have a camera etc.

It's not easy being a moderator, I appreciate that, but you must realise this new rule of yours isn't going to make it any easier.