 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Funny Stuff Governments all over this country are whining about a supposed lack of money which would require "massive cuts in vital services, like schools, police, fire fighters, etc." but there always seems to be money for things that are not so vital, like municipal broadband.
I hope this bill comes back with a vengeance and is extended to every possible instance in which government can compete with private business.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| said by pnh102:I hope this bill comes back with a vengeance and is extended to every possible instance in which government can compete with private business. Water, sewer, trash service? Police and fire? City streets?
FDIC, SEC, food- and drug-quality?
Zoning laws and building codes?
This is where you'll come back with "you're confusing me with an anarchist." Using absolutist rhetoric ("every possible instance of competition") but unwilling to address how you don't apply that absolute standard to yourself.
Mark |
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said by pnh102:Governments all over this country are whining about a supposed lack of money which would require "massive cuts in vital services, like schools, police, fire fighters, etc." but there always seems to be money for things that are not so vital, like municipal broadband. I hope this bill comes back with a vengeance and is extended to every possible instance in which government can compete with private business. What a great idea. Maybe the money "saved" by not providing this service should be rather used in some anti trust lawsuits against the cable and telco monopolies that REFUSED to service the area to start with.
Sometimes the shilling posted on these forums is unbelievable.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. |
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me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | That may work. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:Water, sewer, trash service? Police and fire? City streets? FDIC, SEC, food- and drug-quality? Zoning laws and building codes? There are certain services which government at any given level is tasked with providing. Municipal broadband doesn't rank up there at all. And you'll also notice that "unless the public goes along with massive tax hikes these services will be cut." Funny how you never hear of extraneous spending being offered up for cuts first.
said by amigo_boy:... but unwilling to address how you don't apply that absolute standard to yourself. How can I? I can't go to my employer and tell him "unless you give me a raise I will have to cut my hours down to 20 a week."
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to sturmvogel
Why don't private citizens who want this gather some like-minded investors and deploy this service on their own?
said by sturmvogel:Sometimes the shilling posted on these forums is unbelievable. The level of generosity with other peoples' money posted on these forums never ceases to amaze me.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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You seriously want the diminish competition and create higher prices for everyone? You can't be serious. If you are then you should seek some sort of help. |
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said by pnh102:Why don't private citizens who want this gather some like-minded investors and deploy this service on their own? Because that requires organization and time. Private citizens usually are occupied with day to day activities like WORK to make money to pay taxes and provide for their families.
So then companies that have dedicated staff do take advantage and PLAN activities that will be detrimental to those said citizens and that is why we have GOVERNMENT to watch out on behalf of those citizens.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. |
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| reply to UsoFUNNY
said by UsoFUNNY :
You seriously want the diminish competition and create higher prices for everyone? You can't be serious. If you are then you should seek some sort of help.
Maybe you should read the article and understand the situation.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:I hope this bill comes back with a vengeance and is extended to every possible instance in which government can compete with private business. Every possible instance? OK, let's see here...
City water competes with bottled water.
Public transit competes with taxicabs.
Police compete with private security companies, especially on private property.
City garbage collection competes with private trash haulers.
Public schools compete with private schools.
State colleges and universities compete with private colleges and universities.
The USPS competes with UPS, FedEx, etc.
PBS and NPR compete with commercial broadcasters.
Public roads compete with toll roads.
Public hospitals compete with private hospitals.
State and county jails compete with those managed by private companies.
So I'm guessing you want all these things eliminated. After all, you said "every instance", so you can't pick and choose.
Oh, one more thing. The underlying protocols that make the Internet possible were developed with government funding. Without those protocols, we'd likely have online services that are walled gardens, with all their content provided and managed by the company running the service and with no way for subs to see anything outside that service, since each one would use its own protocols, all incompatible from the rest, just like we had with CompuServe, AOL, and Prodigy. And do you think a service owned and operated by a company like TWC would even allow the kind of discussion we're having here? Muni fiber? That term would be scrubbed from the boards as quickly as AOL removed any instance of the word "breast", even when it referred to breast cancer. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to sturmvogel
said by sturmvogel:Because that requires organization and time. Private citizens usually are occupied with day to day activities like WORK to make money to pay taxes and provide for their families. No kidding? Who knew that anything worth doing would be, you know, hard and stuff.
Just about every other private business out there had rocky and difficult starts.
said by sturmvogel:So then companies that have dedicated staff do take advantage and PLAN activities that will be detrimental to those said citizens and that is why we have GOVERNMENT to watch out on behalf of those citizens. Perhaps if government actually did what you claim, it would be a little more judicious about spending money, especially when there are claims (many of which I personally don't believe) that tax revenue is "down."
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to ISurfTooMuch
You do list some great items. I would be inclined to agree with many of them.
However, you also pointed out that there are certain things that government is already tasked with handling. There's no way anyone can claim that municipal broadband ranks up as something that important.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to UsoFUNNY
said by UsoFUNNY :
You seriously want the diminish competition and create higher prices for everyone? You can't be serious. If you are then you should seek some sort of help. And you want to raise taxes for everyone? At least if someone thinks that broadband is too expensive they can choose to not pay for it. There's nothing anyone can do if taxes get to be too high.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:You do list some great items. I would be inclined to agree with many of them. However, you also pointed out that there are certain things that government is already tasked with handling. There's no way anyone can claim that municipal broadband ranks up as something that important. At some point in history, the services we now consider important seemed pretty non essential also.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by sturmvogel:Because that requires organization and time. Private citizens usually are occupied with day to day activities like WORK to make money to pay taxes and provide for their families. No kidding? Who knew that anything worth doing would be, you know, hard and stuff. Just about every other private business out there had rocky and difficult starts. said by sturmvogel:So then companies that have dedicated staff do take advantage and PLAN activities that will be detrimental to those said citizens and that is why we have GOVERNMENT to watch out on behalf of those citizens. Perhaps if government actually did what you claim, it would be a little more judicious about spending money, especially when there are claims (many of which I personally don't believe) that tax revenue is "down." The only way to fight corporatism is either by a socialist revolution or by anti trust action by the government. Socialist revolution is not what I would consider a good choice.
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Obama '08. Will help resolve the terrible broadband issues we have that put us so far behind other countries. |
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1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:However, you also pointed out that there are certain things that government is already tasked with handling. There's no way anyone can claim that municipal broadband ranks up as something that important. I'm glad you said that, since it reminded me of one I missed.
Public libraries compete with subscription libraries.
If that sounds a bit odd, let me explain. Up until the early to mid-1800s, there really weren't many public libraries at all. What libraries there were operated on a subscription basis. If you had the money, you could join one and pay a recurring fee to get access to its collection. Problem was, few people could afford it. During the 1800s, people started to come to the conclusion that libraries should be open to everyone so that ordinary citizens who wished to do so could educate themselves. Libraries were viewed as an uplifting influence, something that could raise the educational and literary standards of the public at large. One of the big debates was whether or not to have these libraries keep popular literature in their collections. At first, many people said no, since mass-market books were viewed as trashy and not uplifting enough. However, others, who prevailed in the end, felt it was better that people read anything, even popular novels, than nothing at all. And this is why you can go to your local library and borrow a good book to read, either between patients if you're a neurosurgeon or while you're lying in bed at the homeless shelter you live at.
So yes, the things society views as essential services can and do change. Libraries went from being something reserved for the wealthy to a service for everyone. And if you think that most of the public documents in, say, their government documents collections can be accessed online, then have another look, especially at the older ones that were never offered in electronic form. And I challenge you to find decades-old newspaper content anywhere but on microfilm at a local library.
So don't be so quick to make broad statements about what is and isn't essential. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:There are certain services which government at any given level is tasked with providing. Municipal broadband doesn't rank up there at all. That's what some people said about water, fire, police, sewer, etc.
You have a tendency to accept all the social involvement in markets as "ordinary." But, anything new isn't. Ignoring that the things you consider to be ordinary weren't considered thus at some time in the past.
That's fine. It's typical democracy. (You're ok with ox-goring as long as it's not your ox being gored. You're ok with government involvement in water and sewer markets because you benefit, and you don't choose to compete in those spaces.).
I just think you discredit your own position when you use absolutist rhetoric, like how a law should prevent government from involving itself in any business. You don't really mean that. Like everyone else, you really mean the businesses you think government shouldn't be involved in. I.e., the ones you don't feel you'd benefit as much from.
There's no need to put on an air of righteousness when you're no different than everyone else.
Mark |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
1 edit | reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:Why don't private citizens who want this gather some like-minded investors and deploy this service on their own? Why don't you buy enough property to protect yourself from your neighbors' choices to dispose of their own property? Instead of relying upon zoning laws (public law limiting how individuals dispose of their private property) for you?
Mark |
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| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:However, you also pointed out that there are certain things that government is already tasked with handling. There's no way anyone can claim that municipal broadband ranks up as something that important. If this country expects to move forward technologically, then there needs to be a point where advancements in technology are taken very seriously and invested in very heavily. Not just by private organizations but also by the government. The private sector has its place but let's not negelct the good that can come when the government does get involved. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:That's what some people said about water, fire, police, sewer, etc. Regardless of what other people have said, it still cannot be said that municipal broadband ranks up there with such services.
said by amigo_boy:(You're ok with ox-goring as long as it's not your ox being gored. You're ok with government involvement in water and sewer markets because you benefit, and you don't choose to compete in those spaces.). And again, there are things government at a given should be doing. These are usually things that the free market is incapable of providing, but are needed anyway. Municipal broadband is not one of those things, and never will be.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! |
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