artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX | [VoiceStick] Terrible echo when calling Russia
Is it just me or how do I troubleshoot this kind of issue?
I can hear everything what I say with 1 second delay, the other party hears me just fine and no other artifacts. |
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n1zuk
My wood is stacked
Premium
join:2001-10-24
South Burlington, VT
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
| Try a different provider.
Have your person in Russia try a different phone.
Typically, echo is caused by your volume (in their telephone earpeice) being too loud, and it is feeding back to you. If they can turn down the volume on their phone, good. If you can lower the output gain on your ATA, almost as good.
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i2Fuzzy
join:2009-02-25
Keller, TX
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by n1zuk  :Try a different provider. Have your person in Russia try a different phone. Typically, echo is caused by your volume (in their telephone earpeice) being too loud, and it is feeding back to you. If they can turn down the volume on their phone, good. If you can lower the output gain on your ATA, almost as good. What he said. Are you noticing this with any other calls, or just to Russia?
Are they talking to you on speakerphone? On a computer?
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Ali Fazel
i2Telecom Representative |
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DogFace05
join:2005-12-09
Cary, NC
2 edits | reply to n1zuk
said by n1zuk :Typically, echo is caused by your volume (in their telephone earpeice) being too loud, and it is feeding back to you. No, echo is NEVER EVER caused by the volume being too loud. It always occurs in all equipment designed for connection to the PSTN, due to reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with volume level.
The primary reason for echo in analog telephone equipment is the fact that echo always occurs in transmission lines at points where there's a discontinuity in characteristic impedance. This happens most noticeably at the transformer that interfaces the 2-wire PSTN connection, with the 4-wire side that goes to the rest of the phone electronics. This transformer is known as a 'hybrid' in industry parlance, and is the main cause for echo. And that echo always occurs, regardless of volume.
To a lesser extent, there may also be some noticeable acoustic echo fed back from the ear piece to the microphone. However, unless we're dealing with a speaker phone, this echo is far lesser than that caused by the hybrid. Nonetheless, this echo has nothing whatsoever to do with volume. It is always there, regardless of volume level.
By lowering the volume level, you may get the impression of reduced echo. Why? Because you reduce the volume level of your speech, and therefore also the level of the echoed speech by an equal proportion. But the listener at the other end will also hear you proportionately less loudly. The proportionate amount of echo vs the speech level does not vary at all with the volume. It is not a function of volume. Period. |
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engineerdan
join:2006-12-07
Manassas, VA
·Callcentric
| reply to artisticcheese
said by DogFace05 :This happens most noticeably at the transformer that interfaces the 2-wire PSTN connection, with the 4-wire side that goes to the rest of the phone electronics. This transformer is known as a 'hybrid' in industry parlance, and is the main cause for echo. That was an excellent explanation, DogFace05. However, because the hybrid culprit is located within the Russian person's telephone, wouldn't n1zuk's advice remain valid?
said by n1zuk :Have your person in Russia try a different phone. I'd add that it would be better to try a phone from a different manufacturer, if feasible, because the poor hybrid deficiency is possibly a design flaw that might be encountered in other phones using the same design. |
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artisticcheese
join:2004-11-09
Carrollton, TX
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VoiceStick
| reply to i2Fuzzy
This happens only to calling specific phone number in Russia. I've been calling the same phone number for long time and started happening about 2 month ago. It does not happen to other phone numbers in Russia and no to US based calls. So issue is on phone adapater on receving side? |
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engineerdan
join:2006-12-07
Manassas, VA
·Callcentric
| said by artisticcheese :So issue is on phone adapater on receving side? I know this seems odd, but an echo that you hear is usually caused by problems at the other end of the call. In this case, in Russia.
You mentioned an adapter in your recent post. Is the person you're calling also using VoIP? If the person in Russia is using an analog telephone adapter, the problem may be caused by a mismatch in the FXS Port Impedance setting on their adapter.
Many adapters are shipped with the FXS Port Impedance set to the North American standard by default. If the Port Impedance setting doesn't match the impedance of the actual phone being used, the Russian phone's 'hybrid' (explained above by DogFace05) won't work well.
When a hybrid misbehaves, the signal from your voice, makes a U-turn at the Russian hybrid and travels all the way back to Texas. Because of the delays (or latency) in VoIP calls, this is perceived as an echo.
If the person in Russia is using a telephone built to Russian standards (whatever they may be), he should set his FXS Port Impedance to match the Russian telephone impedance standard. There are only 8 FXS impedance values in a PAP2T, so, he could always use trial-and-error, with you "talking him in" to the best setting.
All of this explains the common VoIP-echo rule of thumb: Echos are generally caused by phone problems at the other end. If callers complain of echos, the problem is most likely with your equipment... and vice-versa.
With due respect to DogFace05, if the Russian hybrid is misbehaving, the FXS gain settings in the Russian analog adapter will have a direct impact on the loudness of the echo. I agree that any volume setting on the phone will have little, if any, effect.
None of this explains why the symptom changed about 2 months ago. Perhaps the best thing to do is ask your friend whether he's changed anything recently. Did he get a new phone? |
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johnny255
@net.il | reply to artisticcheese
I faced this echo problems for months with some clients. I finally found a way to solve this issue by using solicall's utility. |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Teliax VOIP
| reply to engineerdan
said by engineerdan :said by artisticcheese :So issue is on phone adapater on receving side? I know this seems odd, but an echo that you hear is usually caused by problems at the other end of the call. In this case, in Russia. Yes, if you get echo back from something close, it just appears to make the sidetone you hear louder, as the delay is so short that your brain perceives it as part of the same signal that's being fed back to your ear inside your phone.
Without delay, there can be no echo.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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