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Forums » Canadian Consumer Groups Slam CRTC » Bell is growing way too large.
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insomx
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Canada
·Aliant Communicati..

Bell is growing way too large.

I know this is a tad off topic, but it is all to do with Bell's business practices.

They keep driving the small ones out of business, and keep buying the one's they can't. For example, Virgin Mobile Canada. Excellent company in everyway ...Bell just bought them (because they can't compete with them). In the East here, Bell bought Aliant (local telecom provider). Now Aliant's cell phones are through Bell, and their internet and phone will soon be assimilated into Bell.

This means in east canada we have Bell and Rogers. And that's it. Don't count Telus..they are in bed with Bell. All other cell providers are owned by either Bell or Rogers. Tv service..only Bell and Rogers. Internet...only Bell and Rogers. This is crazy!

st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA

what is almost never mentioned is that Teksavvy basically buys wholesale ADSL from Bell and adds on their own stuff (some backhaul, email/web service, authentication, etc).

for almost 10 years, any company in Canada has the right to rent bare copper lines from the ILEC(bell, telus, etc) and colocate their own dslams into central offices and thus avoid any throtting. but most companies choose to instead buy wholesale adsl from the ILEC, which is obviously subject to throttling.

(obviously this doesn't apply to VRADs/remotes and so on)


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

said by st7860 See Profile :

(obviously this doesn't apply to VRADs/remotes and so on)
That's the problem, more than half of customers can only get a connection through a remote! Putting in DSLAMs in CO's is NOT going to provide a complete solution. Further, now Bell is trying to get rid of co-location in the CO!


adisor19

join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications

reply to st7860
said by st7860 See Profile :

what is almost never mentioned is that Teksavvy basically buys wholesale ADSL from Bell and adds on their own stuff (some backhaul, email/web service, authentication, etc).

for almost 10 years, any company in Canada has the right to rent bare copper lines from the ILEC(bell, telus, etc) and colocate their own dslams into central offices and thus avoid any throtting. but most companies choose to instead buy wholesale adsl from the ILEC, which is obviously subject to throttling.

(obviously this doesn't apply to VRADs/remotes and so on)
What is almost never mentioned as well is that Bell built its network, thus the company itself with huge subsidies from the Canadian government ! And where did the govermnet get the money from ? FROM US, THE CONSUMERS. So, if you wonder why the samall ISPs didn't build their own network from scratch, it's because they didn't get any subsidies from the government to do so and so obviously they went with the wholesale forced offer from Bell.

Adi

st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA

reply to insomx
nobody is forced to buy wholesale.

for ten years anyone has had the right to locate their own equipment in a central office and obviously avoid throttling.

of course if you rent wholesale(white label) services from someone you are subject to disruptions and conditions.


adisor19

join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications

said by st7860 See Profile :

nobody is forced to buy wholesale.

for ten years anyone has had the right to locate their own equipment in a central office and obviously avoid throttling.

of course if you rent wholesale(white label) services from someone you are subject to disruptions and conditions.
Ya ok and at what prices ?! Oh, right, at the prices that Bell dictates !! Prices that are NOT controlled by the government in any way whatsoever but rather are dictated by whoever owns the collocation office.. oh wait, that's BELL ! gee how did you miss that part ??! 2 posts already on this topic with both of them mentioning this amazing opportunity that all those small ISPs had for 10 years, yet you forget to mention that in fact it's NOT AN OPPORTUNITY AT ALL.

Adi


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

reply to st7860
said by st7860 See Profile :

of course if you rent wholesale(white label) services from someone you are subject to disruptions and conditions.
Of course if you researched a bit, you'd see that it's actually Government mandated wholesale with provisions that the interconnects are bought on a commit basis. There is no justification for Bell to implement throttling on these lines. The tariff is NOT supposed to be white label wholesale! After all, these ISPs are ONLY buying internal transit NOT external.

st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
reply to adisor19
it is an opportunity, as bare copper lines for ADSL purposes have been available in Canada for 10 years, but teksavvy choses to be cheap and instead rent white label ADSL, and is obviously subject to throttling.


adisor19

join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications

said by st7860 See Profile :

it is an opportunity, as bare copper lines for ADSL purposes have been available in Canada for 10 years, but teksavvy choses to be cheap and instead rent white label ADSL, and is obviously subject to throttling.
I don't understand how you can say that with a straight face. Which part of "BELL OWNS THE COLLOCATION OFFICES AND COPPER LINES." do you not understand ?! Bell charges what THEY want and can outright deny you access to the collocation office if you are a competitor. There, is this more clear now ?

Adi


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Host:
Rogers
Bell Canada
reply to st7860
This is NOT white label service ... The term wholesale is in fact a misnomer. The 3rd party ISPs are buying a service to provide a DSL connection from consumer to the ISP's gateway. Called "Gateway Access Service" or GAS, it could be used for any number of purposes, such as a company connecting to its intranet by telecommuters at home, not just for the third party ISPs providing internet service.

Of course, there are obviously conditions to be imposed, but none of these should be based on the content or amount of data passed through the pipes up to the contracted amount of the backhaul. The incumbent has NO right to touch the contents of the data on the backhaul.

Yes, there is the right to colocate equipment, using the ILEC's last mile services (the wire), and provide your own backhaul, but GAS was a means to provide last mile and backhaul in one package. After all, it's not economic to colo equipment in all of the COs and remotes in the areas they operate in.

st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
reply to insomx
it IS white label service and thats why Bell is able to throttle it. companies can choose to rent bare parts like copper lines and place their OWN equipment into a central office then in that situation, bell obviously can't throttle them.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
Go read what GAS actually IS! Not what you THINK it is!

st7860

join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA


1 edit
reply to insomx
»tranceparance.posterous.com/stop···make-you

"Another proceeding relating to the Internet in Canada required Telecom providers (Bell/Telus/etc.) to provide ISPs with WHOLESALE service speeds that match those that they offer to their own retail customers

Read more: »tranceparance.posterous.com/stop···tZR3Qu&B
"

and for the people who didn't already know - the reason why bell can throttle ADSL is because most companies choose to rent wholesale services from bell and just stick their own name on it thats why in some situations in ontario(you can't do this in bc or alberta) with various ADSL companies you can trade passwords and USERids and it usually works)


adisor19

join:2004-10-11
·Velcom
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Radioactif
·Videotron
·Look Communications

reply to st7860
said by st7860 See Profile :

it IS white label service and thats why Bell is able to throttle it. companies can choose to rent bare parts like copper lines and place their OWN equipment into a central office then in that situation, bell obviously can't throttle them.
Again with the central office BS... read my other replyes while your're at it. But what about remotes ? My whole neighbourhood was built in 2003 and guess what : it's all linked through a remote. Does Bell allow access to competitors on remotes ? NO.

Adi


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico

reply to st7860
said by st7860 See Profile :

and for the people who didn't already know - the reason why bell can throttle ADSL is because most companies choose to rent wholesale services from bell and just stick their own name on it thats why in some situations in ontario(you can't do this in bc or alberta) with various ADSL companies you can trade passwords and USERids and it usually works)
Incorrect, the reason that works in Ontario is because all the traffic and authentication requests go through Bell's network before hitting the provider and Bell's transit runs through the same network. The realm determines which network the traffic goes.

Telus on the other hand terminates retail and wholesale traffic on different segments on the network and they don't use PPPoE for authentication.


derekm

join:2008-02-26
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Rogers Hi-Speed

reply to st7860
said by st7860 See Profile :

(obviously this doesn't apply to VRADs/remotes and so on)
So most of the DSL infrastructure?


51019512

join:2009-05-19
151 Front St
reply to st7860
st7860 but sit on the CRTC. Would explain his replies and not understanding.


derekm

join:2008-02-26
reply to st7860
Are you Mirko Bibic in disguise?

Your pronounced misunderstanding of the situation in Canada, and your stubbornness in propagating it, belies your affiliation with Bell.


El Quintron
Could you spare a consulting gig?

join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
 reply to st7860
Don't feed the "buy your own gear" troll.

He's from the states he know SFA about the Canadian Telecom situation...
--
Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable

reply to adisor19
Bell doesn't own the airspace so why don't ISPs use that? Ever hear of MOTO Canopy? It works great! ISPs in Canada use it. It's one of the fine products that MOTO makes for their Wireless ISP customers.

These 3rd party ISPs just want to ride on someone else's network without doing anything instead of spending this money they should be out creating their own network if they wanted to stay in business.

Also things change. It's time that these companies get off their asses and start changing as well. Those 3rd Party ISPs are gonna be done for because they didn't build out and who do they have to blame? Their owners and customers like you who claim that they shouldn't have to because the CRTC protects them.

Wake up and smell the coffee you don't get shit for free anymore!
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