how-to block ads
|
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Mr Neutron
Re: [Rant] Logitech Quality has gotten far worse
If it wasn't obvious the problem hasn't been the keyboards, it's the mice for me, however the best mouse I bought from them was not optical. It was their old three button right handed ergonomic design wireless that worked great for seven years, but I did get tired of having to clean the rollers, however if that was still working today might might have considered that a viable trade off. If you read the first comment yet again you will see it's been something cheap going bad all the other times.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
$125 per hour if you called tech support, and didn't fix the issue while making things worse | |
Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| said by BlitzenZeus  :If it wasn't obvious the problem hasn't been the keyboards, it's the mice for me, Yes, I understand that. It's just that this comment:
I still have some of those devices, but I don't use my old keyboard anymore for reasons like the loud clicking keyboards.
...led me to understand that you have an old school (or at least older) keyboard lying around unused. And I was curious as to why that was the case (i.e. if you're not using it, and likely won't be using it, why not sell the thing and get it out of the closet?)
said by BlitzenZeus :however the best mouse I bought from them was not optical. It was their old three button right handed ergonomic design wireless that worked great for seven years, but I did get tired of having to clean the rollers, however if that was still working today might might have considered that a viable trade off. If you know the model number for that device...eBay is your friend. You might also be able to find it on Amazon.
True, cleaning the rollers is a bit of a hassle, but how often did you have to do that? Once a week?
said by BlitzenZeus :If you read the first comment yet again you will see it's been something cheap going bad all the other times. Right. And I think your first few words summed things up nicely:
Their quality used to mean something...
Only now, apparently, the bean counters are running things at Logitech. It's exasperating, I know, but this seems to happen with just about every corporation, sooner or later. IBM, for example, no longer makes Model M keyboards for a reason.
It sounds as though Microsoft might be a better company to start handing your money to. Although if you see something you like, you may want to ask around, first, and make sure that what you're hoping to buy will last so you don't run into the same problem with them. I've heard good things about their keyboards and mice, but that doesn't mean the bean counters haven't started shaving pennies with their stuff, too.
Maybe you'd better go with one of these:
»gemsres.com/story/apr08/536976/E···se_3.jpg
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to BlitzenZeus
Finally got my replacement for the basic scroll wheel, and I've noticed the scroll wheel squeaks at times, you can't win...
I'll probably open this one up, and put some glue around the light sensor to help prevent it from getting loose in the future since as I said before the only thing holding the light sensor on the board is the soldiering. | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to BlitzenZeus
Two for two now, I somehow found the receipt for the wireless mouse when I was looking for something else. They no longer carry this mouse, and are sending me a similar mouse, with yet another internal battery you can't replace. It has another three year warranty for the replacement mouse, and the lifetime of rechargeable batteries really seem to drop off after two years so we shall see. | |
Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
 ·Comcast
| reply to BlitzenZeus
said by BlitzenZeus :Thanks, it seems too many companies want to save a penny in materials, but still charge full rate when they know they are selling crap. ROFL. welcome to america. oh and the rest of the world. were you born yesterday?
--
By all means marry. Get a good wife, and you'll become happy. Get a bad one, and you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates | |
Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| said by Smatchimo :said by BlitzenZeus :Thanks, it seems too many companies want to save a penny in materials, but still charge full rate when they know they are selling crap. ROFL. welcome to america. oh and the rest of the world. were you born yesterday? Things were not always thus in the world of computer peripherals.
The whole "race to the bottom" mentality is a relatively new phenomenon and can be traced back (more or less) to the early 90s, when membrane keyboards started to supplant keyboards with discrete (and therefore more expensive to manufacture) keyswitches on a large scale.
It's taken for granted now that things like mice and keyboards are throwaway items, but once upon a time, they were meant to last for years, and be repaired rather than thrown away. Making a rejoinder of "Duh! What else did you expect?" more than a little depressing (at least for people over a certain age).
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Race to the bottom is right. As I said in my first post my first logitech mouse lasted seven years.... far beyond it's warranty, and they made devices that good they could offer warranties that long. Now they seemingly are building them to break to replace them as soon as their warranty ends, but they still end up eating replacing a good percentage of those devices with they would have kept all that money if they just spent a few more pennies in the manufacturing process.
The bottom line doesn't always mean you save money by making it cost less to manufacturer, if you have to replace it, you've just spend 2x the materials for one device when the first one fails due to defects you put into the device.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
$125 per hour if you called tech support, and didn't fix the issue while making things worse | |
Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Smatchimo
or maybe its a lot more simple and you arent treating these particular items with any respect. my logitech gear has lasted me since i bought it all working at best buy, at employee cost. best money i ever spent on peripherals. my mx revolution mouse, as i mentioned in another thread, is now 3 years old, almost 4 since i bought it in late 05, served me well for 2 years, then had no use over a whole year, but it still turned right on after sitting for 12 months....
i think its a bit more case to case than you are implying. but everyone has bad experiences with certain companies, and vow never to buy from them again. in my case its sony and bose.
--
By all means marry. Get a good wife, and you'll become happy. Get a bad one, and you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates | |
Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
1 edit | said by Smatchimo : my mx revolution mouse, as i mentioned in another thread, is now 3 years old, almost 4 since i bought it in late 05, served me well for 2 years, then had no use over a whole year, but it still turned right on after sitting for 12 months.... I have to ask: is 4 years considered above-average longevity for a mouse or keyboard nowadays? With, say, 2 years being considered closer to the norm?
said by Smatchimo :or maybe its a lot more simple and you arent treating these particular items with any respect Maybe it's just me, but I can't think of anything more irritating than being asked to treat my peripherals "with respect." I mean, fuzuck that. 
Seriously, I want a mouse and keyboard I can drop, abuse, and just plain treat any-old-how and still have them work. Speaking for myself, I've got a lot of stupid, extraordinarily useless shit to get on with and I just plain don't have time to stop and consider how I happen to be treating my peripherals at any given moment.
That is, short of doing something really stupid, like spilling a Coke on them, I fully expect them to work even after being knocked around a bit (okay, a lot).
So I have to ask: is that the expectation that peripheral manufacturers have succeeded in creating in consumers? That you have to be careful with how you handle their stuff?
I'm not asking this to be a wiseguy or anything: I really do want to know if consumers are now fully expected to help compensate for any deficiencies on the part of the peripheral manufacturer (like, say, El Cheapo materials, indifferent engineering, and penny-shaving).
I haven't bought anything new in a long time so, for all I know, that really could be the way things are. I just don't know, which is why I ask.
(Ever since those horseless carriages caught on, the world just hasn't been the same, has it?)
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. | |
Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
·Comcast
| all very valid points, i see where you are coming from.
4 years is actually around what i expect most of my electronic devices to last for. 5 if im careful, 1 if im reckless. i remember getting BSODS on my first computer when i was going through my "computer illeterate" years (jesus that was ten years ago????), and simply pounding on my keyboard that it would jump so high it would clear my monitor lmao. worked for a long time afterwards too
the comment on the auto industry changing a lot of this i might have to agree with. but if i spend too much time thinking about it i will just get more depressed/angry.
--
By all means marry. Get a good wife, and you'll become happy. Get a bad one, and you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Mr Neutron
They said they didn't use their mouse for 12 months so that helped their battery life a little.
I don't abuse my devices, I play games with them which is much more than just clicking a few links, and they use the same cheap parts in the expensive gaming mice anyway, no need to pay three prices for the same cheap parts. I just expect something not to break from what should be normal wear, and tear. The only two mice I've had any warranty issue with was my two latest mice, two in a row, but each one had a different issue obviously.
--
My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
$125 per hour if you called tech support, and didn't fix the issue while making things worse | |
Smatchimo
Professional Genuine Image Verifier
Premium
join:2004-08-20
Walnut Creek, CA
·Comcast
| well think about this:
if logitech came out with a new campaign for titanium alloy button actuators and diamond cut optical lenses on all mice, sure they might last you 100 years, but the company would be out of business within the lifetime of one of their older cheap plastic models.
which brings up another point.. all of these GREEN FREAKS are have created such a hubub about saving the planet in recent years, that everything needs to be recyclable (rightfully so, id like my kids to have long full lives, and their kids and so on and so forth) and obviously none of that green goodness comes without cost, at least to the products lifespan.
and these days they actually have the nerve to charge us MORE for items that are supposedly "green friendly" in some cases.
but none of that comes without cost. and the manufacturers know this. they are so marginally on the line of producing unusable crap for as cheap as possible that 50% of any group of people will complain about it.
--
By all means marry. Get a good wife, and you'll become happy. Get a bad one, and you'll become a philosopher. -Socrates | |
Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| said by Smatchimo :well think about this: if logitech came out with a new campaign for titanium alloy button actuators and diamond cut optical lenses on all mice, sure they might last you 100 years, but the company would be out of business within the lifetime of one of their older cheap plastic models.
Well, yes and no.
Whether or not someone replaces a given peripheral isn't determined soley by whether it's busted or not. If Logitech were to introduce new models evey 2-3 years, they might still be able to make a living selling new devices, even when the old ones are perfectly functional. I guess it comes down to how much people are driven by "fashion trends" when it comes to computing gear.
You can also make money selling spare parts. 
But it's funny that you should mention things like "titanium alloy button actuators." Because when I looked at the Amazon review for the MX Revolution, I see that the "scroll wheel" that I am familiar with has now been replaced with a "MicroGear Precision Scroll Wheel."
Why is this funny? Because I've always had a theory (we'll call it "Neutron's Theory," just to give it a name) that the more elaborately named a given device or component is, the more likely it is to break (e.g. an "interdental stimulator" [two words] is going to be 50% less reliable than a "toothpick" [one word]). And since I see that Logitech's "scroll wheel" had now morphed into the "MicroGear Precision Scroll Wheel," (four words vs. two) I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that the MPSW is twice as likely to fail as the old scroll wheel was.
(Sure, I'm kidding here, but I'm only half-kidding.)
said by Smatchimo :which brings up another point.. all of these GREEN FREAKS are have created such a hubub about saving the planet in recent years, that everything needs to be recyclable (rightfully so, id like my kids to have long full lives, and their kids and so on and so forth) and obviously none of that green goodness comes without cost, at least to the products lifespan.
That's a good point. And not having bought a peripheral in a long time, it's one I've never thought of before.
The use of lighter plastics and glued-together components (vs. screwed together) might well be a result of manufacturers needing to make their devices easier to recycle rather than a strong desire to cut costs (though I've no doubt that cheaper manufacturing costs resulting from "going green" would be welcome side effect for them).
said by Smatchimo :and these days they actually have the nerve to charge us MORE for items that are supposedly "green friendly" in some cases. Well, it would be nice if the tree huggers environmentalists could motivate manufacturers to make devices that would last forever, seeing as how a peripheral that lasts 10 years is likely to consumer fewer resources (i.e. the energy and materials required to make a single unit) than one that only lasts 2-3 years and, consequently, one that an end user will need to replace 3-5 times in that same period.
Unfortunately, tree huggers environmentalists don't always take a realistic or long-term view of things. For instance, they give grocery stores a hard time for issuing plastic bags, but they never seem to consider that people like me are not only going to use the bags for carrying the groceries home, but also for trash bags. Meaning that I'm going to be using a grocery bag at least twice.
Of course, if I don't have access to plastic grocery bags, I can always go out and buy brand new plastic trash bags. Which (you guessed it) will only get used once. Unfortunately, that's exactly what they seem to want me to do.  Which means more money out of my pocket (i.e. I have to go buy trash bags vs. using free grocery bags) and more plastic bags being produced (I can't be the only idiot who wrings two uses out of plastic grocery bags).
So, yeah, being confined to thinking purely in the short-term like that could be the way we're headed and are going to stay. People seem ready to shell out dough for anything with a "green" label on it, even if there are long-term negative consequences to their buying that item (that might have been altered or created solely in an effort to cash in on the eco-craze).
said by Smatchimo :but none of that comes without cost. and the manufacturers know this. they are so marginally on the line of producing unusable crap for as cheap as possible that 50% of any group of people will complain about it. We'll see what happens. People may start getting tired of replacing their peripherals ever year or two and start to favor companies that charge more for their gear, but also make devices that are built to last a long time. I just don't know how most consumers think when they buy computing gear.
I'm with you on the "unusable crap" part, though. Every once in a great while, I'll look at new keyboards and mice and the new models always seem to be more about styling than functionality (with longevity being a mere afterthought). The peripherals I use myself are certainly boring-looking, but I know they're going to work every time I pick them up to get something done.
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. | |
HuKaShI
Premium
join:2001-07-11
Englewood, NJ
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to BlitzenZeus
I want to add my rant to this.
I have a VX Revolution Wireless. It was a great mouse for the first month. Then I realized that the left click button wasn't responding to my clicks. Now the Back button is acting up. I can't stand it. My older logitech items have held up so much better. I'm contemplating digging them up and using it again.
Logitech quality has seriously taken a huge hit in the recent past. | |
Mr Neutron
Hopped up on what you mopped up
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
| said by HuKaShI : My older logitech items have held up so much better. I'm contemplating digging them up and using it again. By "older," do you mean pre-year-2000 devices?
I don't know how this is going to sound, but I think Logitech reached their apex with their mice (okay, trackballs) in '98-'99 with their early model Marbles. Those things were perfect, though from what I can remember people with smaller hands complained they weren't comfortable to use.
Then, for some mysterious reason, they introduced the BB-18 which, for me, had this funky, hand-cramping form factor. And the (to me) inexplicable change from their previous designs led me to believe that they were trying to come up with something that would appeal to smaller-handed people. Whatever. All I know is that, at one point, they sold devices that fit my hand perfectly and were a joy to use. Then they just couldn't leave the design alone.
Anyway, ever since then, it's been all downhill (IMAO).
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream. | |
HuKaShI
Premium
join:2001-07-11
Englewood, NJ
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to BlitzenZeus
Well, I have got to say one thing about their customer service.
I called in to customer support and reported the left click and back button issues I was having. The rep didn't give me a single hassle. He started off by saying, what is your address sir? I was like why do you need that? And he said, "we will ship you a new mouse". I was so amazed.
I got a confirmation email today with the UPS tracking for my replacement mouse.
The best part was when I asked where I send my broken mouse. He replied, "don't worry about it, just keep it". Amazing!!!
So when this mouse fails again in about a year, i'll just call in again and get a new one!!! | |
Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
| Had similar customer service a few months back.
The press pad under a button on my Harmony Remote went bad. Called Logitech out of warranty to see about sending it back.
No Sir we do not want it so just throw it out we will send you a new one. Two days later a new Harmony was delivered.
Aside from that I have 4 other Logitech peripherals that are working fine after 2 - 8 years old.
--
"Facts not FUD!" | |
BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium,MVM
join:2000-01-13
Beaverton, OR | Out of warranty?
That seems to be their only real silver lining, their warranty process usually is mostly painless, but if your device is older they might send you a newer device which may or may not have all the same features of the old one. | |
Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31 | It was my old Harmony and evidently they must have had some spares laying about and sent me a new one still in the packaging.
Had they sent me a newer Harmony that would have been a plus.
--
"Facts not FUD!" | |
Hollow
join:2009-06-12 | reply to BlitzenZeus
I have a Logitech G5. Works flawlessly. | |
-
|
