sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0 | reply to primuser
Re: Throttling on Primus?
look at the third post from the beginning on page 1 of this thread. Your answer is there. |
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primuser
@telus.net | reply to TBBPM
Any way to tell if one is on Bell or Primus DSLAM? Is it possible to get switched to Primus DSLAM? |
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TBBPM
join:2009-02-09
| reply to CanerisErik
said by CanerisErik  :If you're implementing this by breaking DNS, then I would disagree; you would be doing more harm than good. However, if customers can just use another DNS server or otherwise permanently opt-out, then it essentially becomes a non-issue even for those who don't like it. First of all, there is a permanent (not cookie based) opt-out.
Secondly, I do not believe there is any limitation on DNS server customer would like to use (but this is for a a bit more advanced users). Bottom line is that we will not force anything on anyone. |
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CanerisErik
Caneris
Premium,VIP
join:2007-10-03
Toronto, ON
| reply to TBBPM
said by TBBPM :I think what Primus is doing is more customer friendly than current "Page cannot be displayed"... If you're implementing this by breaking DNS, then I would disagree; you would be doing more harm than good. However, if customers can just use another DNS server or otherwise permanently opt-out, then it essentially becomes a non-issue even for those who don't like it.
--
Erik - Caneris - Internet solutions and more. |
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TBBPM
join:2009-02-09
1 edit | reply to artich0ke
said by artich0ke :In what is considered to be a clear violation of Net Neutrality, Primus Canada has begun redirecting customers "Server not found pages" to webpages laden with Primus advertising. The hijacking of webpages by Primus appears to be attempt by the company to cash in on Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technology implemented earlier this year. The "Cannot Find Server" web page is typically shown to a user when they type in a web address that does not exist. The purpose of the page is to inform the user that a lookup error has occurred so the web surfer can change the web address and proceed to the correct website. By using DPI technology, Primus redirects invalid requests and serves up an ad laden webpage rather than allowing the informative "Cannot find server" web page to be displayed. » www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/3851/280/ Ok, let me add my 2 cents...
1. To set the record straight: DPI is not related to this at all.
2. What is being done:
- When customer mistypes URL, instead of a difficult to decipher "Page cannot be displayed" page with 8 bullet points and terms like SSL, TLS, PCT, we are showing the page that
a) Clearly states that typed website is not available
b) Provides suggestions of what customer might be looking for (organic search)
c) Provides a way to search from the same page
d) Contains few sponsored links, just the same way Google or Bing would do it
e) Has a clear way to opt-out of this service, if customer, because of any reason, does not like it.
- We are testing out 2 different providers of this service and will eventually select one that has the highest level of customer satisfaction / lowest number of opt-outs (and we currently have very very few opt-outs, in single digits).
3. Unlike some other ISPs, our opt-out is not cookie based, which means that your opt-out is done on account level and will stand even if you have deleted the cookies or reinstalled the browser.
I think what Primus is doing is more customer friendly than current "Page cannot be displayed"... |
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artich0ke
join:2009-03-18
canada
| reply to bobo22
In what is considered to be a clear violation of Net Neutrality, Primus Canada has begun redirecting customers "Server not found pages" to webpages laden with Primus advertising.
The hijacking of webpages by Primus appears to be attempt by the company to cash in on Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) technology implemented earlier this year.
The "Cannot Find Server" web page is typically shown to a user when they type in a web address that does not exist. The purpose of the page is to inform the user that a lookup error has occurred so the web surfer can change the web address and proceed to the correct website.
By using DPI technology, Primus redirects invalid requests and serves up an ad laden webpage rather than allowing the informative "Cannot find server" web page to be displayed.
»www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/3851/280/ |
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bobo22
join:2007-11-11
| reply to BramptonPrimus
Yes, I called plenty of times and it's pretty hard to get an agent to talk with within the ten minutes since dialing the number.
Most of the times, the agents will tell me to repeat the same procedures (clear cache, restart modem, etc) even though I tell them that's not the issue and that I already did them. I understand that they have to follow a certain protocol, but it's terrible IMO.
Concerning the throttling... I can't watch videos on youtube, usenet is really slow (barely peaks @ 100kB/s), the rendering of websites is sometimes slower. QoS is messed up! |
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BramptonPrimus
@primus.ca
| reply to Solveman
Guys, I read this thread and (try to take no offense) but I see a lot of whining. For starters, the DNS issue with the news server couple weeks back - did any of you actually bother to *call* them and complain? After all, this is a service we're paying for. I sure did and guess what? They told me I was the first one who contacted them about it. Now, if we all just keep quiet about it, what's gonna happen is they'll go the "Rogers route" - if you don't recall, Rogers cancelled their news feed few years back saying "hey, nobody uses it!". So, if you do use it and like - you gotta harass them when it's down - simple as that. Same with the authentication issue this weekend. Obviously there was a problem on their side, if it doesn't get fixed after a few hours, maybe it's time to let them know.
As for the throttling issue, just an observation - I have a feeling that this latest "throttle attack" we've experienced is directly related to all the kids finishing school - I had a day off on friday and even at 1pm the service was getting throttled big time. |
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Solveman
join:2002-10-01
| reply to Kambrel
I've been without usenet access now on my Primus account since Friday (June26). Prior to this 'outage', newsgroups worked flawlessly for me for at least the last two years. There were some minor issues, but they were quickly resolved...
Today, I keep getting told in my newsgroup program that my account password is incorrect, which is false as I've had the same account info for years now. I tried re-entering my password to see if it made a difference and it didn't. Thus, I guess there is an issue on the news.primus.ca end when it comes to authentication?
My speed tests check out as normal on the 5Mb profile (on Bell DSLAM) and browsing for the most part is as expected; same with torrents - connection is maxed out except during the throttling period from Bell around 4:30pm - 2am every day. Also, since it's been previously mentioned today already, I experienced some major lag on youtube last night. It made watching videos on the site next to impossible/not worth doing. But maybe that was congestion on youtube's end? I guess I'll see what happens tonight... |
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TBBPM
join:2009-02-09
1 edit | reply to cheston
said by cheston :I'd like to provide my experience since primus added DPI-based throttling and to suggest, constructively, that they need to do some tuning on their traffic classification. These data points are when "throttling is active" which is easily identified. All throttled apps funnel through the same "60 KB/s" or so of bandwidth. 1. Video from youtube.com, break.com are virtually unusable. Bandwidth graphs show approximately 60 KB/s and that is simply not sufficient to watch any videos without prolific pausing. I understand that you did not explicitly mention video as being time-sensitive, but imo it is and should be considered so. 2. Software development tools like subversion which use http and https are throttled. Checking out or updating a branch which once took seconds now takes minutes. Very, very disappointing especially since this is an operation that is not terribly frequent but it extremely frustrating when it's throttled. 3. MIT courseware videos are also throttled. 4. General web browsing frequently slows to a crawl and large parts or portions of web pages are definitely getting bottlenecked through the 60 KB/s shape. 5. Uploads are completely broken. I used to upload videos to several sights like vimeo and such; then in April/May i started to notice the uploads would consistently break down with connection-reset. Whether this is because I'm on OSX/Safari and it's not well tested by Primus, I do not know but let me tell you i've tried tuning everything with my TCP/IP stack including rfc1323 and win_scale_factor all with no success. The general problem is "larger uploads" breakdown, sometimes with "connection-reset" reported by the upload site. This is independent of protocol - beit FTP, or in-browser uploads using any number of sites; mediafire, vimeo, rapidshare, etc. Files larger than a certain size combined with upload rate seem to be the deciding factors. I can upload at max 60-65 KB/s, so throttling doesn't matter for speed, but uploading a 50 MB file always breaks down. A few days ago I tried over a dozen times to upload a 38MB file to 2 different hosting sites, could not make it happen. If I had to guess, this is because there is some new device in the picture which doesn't play nice with longer-uploads. Even outside of throttling windows uploads are now severely broken - like I said it could be because Mac OSX TCP/IP stack does something different (not wrong) from the uber-tested Windows stack. Hint: some "new" device doing some kind of stateful tracking and/or ack coalescing in the name of good but in practice bad? 6. email. I use google email/imap . It's throttled by Primus. Actually, Primus dos not have anything like 60 Kbps (or any other size for that matter) shape.
Your experience above suggests that you are on our resale service (Bell DSLAM). We do not apply our policies as described above to these connections, since they are already throttled by Bell.
Only our own DSLAMs are benefitting from Primus traffic management. |
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tim45454545456
@primus.ca
| reply to andrewsfm
I am having so much trouble watching youtube. It takes like 5 minutes to download a 2 minute clip, yet other video sites work fine. I see the poster above me has been having the same problems.
Is anyone else experiencing this? And what can be done? |
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cheston
join:2009-06-26
1 edit | reply to TBBPM
said by TBBPM Please note that our traffic management is quite different from one employed by Bell. It kick in only if there is a bandwidth bottleneck and prioritize the time sensitive traffic like VoIP, gaming, etc., along with e-mail and browsing.
I'd like to provide my experience since primus added DPI-based throttling and to suggest, constructively, that they need to do some tuning on their traffic classification. These data points are when "throttling is active" which is easily identified. All throttled apps funnel through the same "60 KB/s" or so of bandwidth.
1. Video from youtube.com, break.com are virtually unusable. Bandwidth graphs show approximately 60 KB/s and that is simply not sufficient to watch any videos without prolific pausing. I understand that you did not explicitly mention video as being time-sensitive, but imo it is and should be considered so.
2. Software development tools like subversion which use http and https are throttled. Checking out or updating a branch which once took seconds now takes minutes. Very, very disappointing especially since this is an operation that is not terribly frequent but it extremely frustrating when it's throttled.
3. MIT courseware videos are also throttled.
4. General web browsing frequently slows to a crawl and large parts or portions of web pages are definitely getting bottlenecked through the 60 KB/s shape.
5. Uploads are completely broken. I used to upload videos to several sights like vimeo and such; then in April/May i started to notice the uploads would consistently break down with connection-reset. Whether this is because I'm on OSX/Safari and it's not well tested by Primus, I do not know but let me tell you i've tried tuning everything with my TCP/IP stack including rfc1323 and win_scale_factor all with no success. The general problem is "larger uploads" breakdown, sometimes with "connection-reset" reported by the upload site. This is independent of protocol - beit FTP, or in-browser uploads using any number of sites; mediafire, vimeo, rapidshare, etc. Files larger than a certain size combined with upload rate seem to be the deciding factors. I can upload at max 60-65 KB/s, so throttling doesn't matter for speed, but uploading a 50 MB file always breaks down. A few days ago I tried over a dozen times to upload a 38MB file to 2 different hosting sites, could not make it happen. If I had to guess, this is because there is some new device in the picture which doesn't play nice with longer-uploads. Even outside of throttling windows uploads are now severely broken - like I said it could be because Mac OSX TCP/IP stack does something different (not wrong) from the uber-tested Windows stack. Hint: some "new" device doing some kind of stateful tracking and/or ack coalescing in the name of good but in practice bad?
6. email. I use google email/imap . It's throttled by Primus. |
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Ravage_D
join:2003-03-28
Kingston, ON | reply to Kambrel
Again, I had no problem or no outages today.
Weird that you experienced any :-/ |
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Kambrel
join:2003-02-14
Etobicoke, ON
| reply to anon3333
said by anon3333 :
Free, uncensored usenet was one of the best things about Primus. Hopefully it is a temporary problem. Does anyone know more about it?
No idea.
Today it is down again. Is it a warning of the final death coming soon? |
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mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to TBBPM
said by TBBPM :Users want more and more bandwidth, but also do not want to pay more for it. ISPs, in turn, need to lease network capacity, pay for inteconnect, etc. It is quite difficult to find the right balance here.... This is my personal opinion that might not reflect the official Primus position. I can see that being the reason for Primus, your network is smaller and with limited funding. Bell on the other hand has had decades to build their infrastructure and both retail and wholesale is paying for that network.
You're right to a certain extent that users do not want to pay but the major ISPs keep jacking up the rate anyway so if there's an increase then there better be infrastructure upgrades as well. |
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artich0ke
join:2009-03-18
canada
| reply to TBBPM
said by TBBPM :Users want more and more bandwidth, but also do not want to pay more for it. Hasn't bandwidth become much cheaper for ISPs compared to earlier years?
From what I've noticed residential broadband connections haven't gotten any cheaper, in fact quite the opposite, they've gotten more expensive and overall haven't gotten that much faster (esp. for wholesale dsl). |
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TBBPM
join:2009-02-09
| reply to artich0ke
said by artich0ke :Expanding roads and highways requires more land which is unavailable for all sorts of reasons. What's the excuse for not expanding the inter-network? Cost?
Users want more and more bandwidth, but also do not want to pay more for it. ISPs, in turn, need to lease network capacity, pay for inteconnect, etc. It is quite difficult to find the right balance here....
This is my personal opinion that might not reflect the official Primus position. |
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artich0ke
join:2009-03-18
canada
| reply to light_speed
said by light_speed :- Besides, aren't we using "Car Pool" lanes in free/highways to avoid congestion and increase performance, what is so different in the Inter-Network. Expanding roads and highways requires more land which is unavailable for all sorts of reasons.
What's the excuse for not expanding the inter-network? |
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light_speed
join:2009-03-18
Nepean, ON
| reply to still a throttle
- QoS cannot be avoided. Even if this DPI thing did not suddenly emerge QoS would have been in place of any ISP core just assure better service. DPI just enhances to higher level, question surely remains "What is the intent of the ISP?". How the ISPs will use this tool is up to them and we should argue on that rather than pointing that DPI is a bad thing.
- Besides, aren't we using "Car Pool" lanes in free/highways to avoid congestion and increase performance, what is so different in the Inter-Network. |
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KC
join:2006-11-08
Ottawa, ON | reply to andrewsfm
news.primus.ca works for me last night and this morning. It even works from work! BTW I'm in Ottawa.
KC |
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