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<title>Topic &#x27;Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary&#x27; in forum &#x27;Canadian Broadband&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22465187</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:22:31 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:22:31 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22848248</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : Haven't read through all of them yet but good work on your r&v JF. I especially like the last part "Better definitions of the tariff are needed" I think right now that's exactly what needs to happen.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:49:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22848231</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Here are the 3 documents that have been submitted so far for the comments on Bell's paragraph 18.<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1458234~cf6d03f87d4f998000e6c40683ab16fb/PVReport1v6.pdf">PVReport1v6.pdf</A><br>Per Vices Corp.</TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1458235~417db555e321649d8a7eb50c9d999ac8/CAIP-PIAC_10Aug09.pdf">CAIP-PIAC_10&middot;&middot;&middot;ug09.pdf</A><br>CAIP-PIAC</TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1458236~3aa824da4470ff8fc557a2a099cf01e2/vaxination_r%26v_supplemental.pdf">vaxination_r&middot;&middot;&middot;ntal.pdf</A><br>Vaxination Informatique</TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:44:47 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22824117</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1627906" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1627906');">freejazz_RdJ</a>:</small><br><br>Is anybody missing the fact that 14% or 16% of users using 27% and 29% of a finite resource is inequitable if the balance of users are sacrificing (by being throttled without MLPPP/VPN/SSH workarounds) their speeds in the name of equity? This kind of inequitable distribution wouldn't be tolerated with water from a common aquifer, school funding or all manner of things, why is it any more fair in this context? <br><br> </div>There's nothing to suggest that the 'other' users are being denied anything since there is no analysis of which users are are actually on-line <b>and when</b> during the 10 hour period Bell construes to be the "peak period".<br><br>The way Bell has presented their 'data' could be totally fudged to skew the argument their way. What if most of the 'excessive' consumption occurred during the period of midnight-2am when the majority of casual users were asleep - who in their right mind would give a rat's ass about congestion then? <br><br>Bell's user numbers just look at the 'peak' 4pm-2am period as a whole, so it's impossible to say who is being affected, when, and for how long. <br><br>*sarcasm* But we're supposed to believe Bell because they have no vested interest in not skewing anything they report to the CRTC. */sarcasm*  <br><br>The trouble with the whole CRTC process is that there is no INDEPENDENT verification/audit of what any of the ILEC's tell the CRTC. That's like Enron saying they didn't manipulate the electricity markets, or Bre-X saying that their assays were legit. <br><br>In the transportation of fresh produce from say, California to Toronto, the transport truck is supposed to keep the cargo refrigerated to 4C for the entire time, but when the load arrives and the grapes are mush, the trucker would claim that the grapes were in poor condition when loaded. In order to confirm/deny this sort of thing, the produce industry loads one or more tamper resistant temperature chart recorders in each truck - which provides irrefutable evidence of the temperature by the minute throughout the whole journey. This is the sort of thing that the CRTC needs to be having done. <br><br>The CRTC should not be allowing implementation of throttling and denying consumers what they paid for and then being put into the position of dealing with complaints on an ex-post basis. If Bell had a problem, they should have approached the CRTC and asked for a traffic audit, and then made application for DPI/throttle to be done ex-ante. This is what Bell traffic people would have had to do internally to get budget approval to buy dozens of Ellacoya or Sandvine boxes - prove to management that they had congestion, how much, when, and whether the DPI boxes would help enough to justify the expenditure.<br><br>In the nearly 2 years since Bell began throttling, given that Bell alleges that they are still having problems, it would appear yet again that Bell's network planning and upgrade process is still irretrievably f*cked.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:10:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22817807</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1627906" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1627906');">freejazz_RdJ</a>:</small><br><br>Is anybody missing the fact that 14% or 16% of users using 27% and 29% of a finite resource is inequitable if the balance of users are sacrificing (by being throttled without MLPPP/VPN/SSH workarounds) their speeds in the name of equity? This kind of inequitable distribution wouldn't be tolerated with water from a common aquifer, school funding or all manner of things, why is it any more fair in this context? <br><br>It's also clear that either throttling P2P isn't working and/or P2P isn't the major source of consumption and/or MLPPP/SSH/VPN are effective countermeasures. Perhaps the move to a per-endpoint model which would basically even these numbers out, much to the chagrin of what appears to be the high-usage client base of the wholesale customers, would be a net benefit to Bell. However, off peak, this would still allow un-even usage by wholesale clients which is fine by me... unused capacity at one point in time can't be saved for later, so make full use of it.<br> </div>The reality is that customer needs differ. The milquetoasts who are Sympatico customers are mostly e-mail checkers and casual surfers. <br><br>Customers of independent ISP's have different needs and usage patterns, and have gravitated to the independents to fulfill those needs. Bell doesn't want that type of 'customer' on their books, but they also know that type of customer WILL sign-up with an independent ISP. When Bell commits to selling a GAS link, they know damn well that the link will be heavily utilized.<br><br>It's no different than the POTS network - many people don't make any calls on a gven day, but those who have teenage girls or who have had a tragedy in their family (just to pick two examples - one steady-state and one transient) will be burning up the electrons at a fast and furious rate. Bell plans for this in POTS and doesn't bitch about it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:14:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22817729</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/659803" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=659803');">jam_bongo</a>:</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/510249" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=510249');">Guspaz</a>:</small><br><br>27/14 = 1.9% bandwidth used per % user share<br>29/16 = 1.8% bandwidth used per % user share<br><br>During the period, wholesaler bandwidth per-user was reduced by roughly 6%<br><br>Bell's essentially misrepresenting the figures.<br> </div>in other words the Exaflood isn't coming?<br> </div>Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps they're only looking at specific links instead of the network as a whole, they did mention ATM links as being heavily congested but then that throws off their stats completely because they're looking at specific traffic and not the traffic on the entire aggregation network.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 07:44:34 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22817295</link>
<description><![CDATA[jam_bongo posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/510249" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=510249');">Guspaz</a>:</small><br><br>27/14 = 1.9% bandwidth used per % user share<br>29/16 = 1.8% bandwidth used per % user share<br><br>During the period, wholesaler bandwidth per-user was reduced by roughly 6%<br><br>Bell's essentially misrepresenting the figures.<br> </div>in other words the Exaflood isn't coming?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:03:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22817141</link>
<description><![CDATA[Guspaz posted : 27/14 = 1.9% bandwidth used per % user share<br>29/16 = 1.8% bandwidth used per % user share<br><br>During the period, wholesaler bandwidth per-user was reduced by roughly 6%<br><br>Bell's essentially misrepresenting the figures.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:03:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22816521</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Ya, I was noticing that in their math too, how there was a downward trend in wholesale usage. <br><br>I guess the big question is, has congestion yet been proven? I've expect to see minute by minute usage curves amongst major data transit points, and to see hard clips for evidence of actual link saturation. Such evidence would then need to be further analyzed to see if it is actually significant for the user or not, but without the hard clips on the curves, congestion simply is not present. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:43:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22816111</link>
<description><![CDATA[jam_bongo posted : is there much detail behind these numbers? (is it a true sum or a manipulated average taken from a sample?) <br><br>edit*<br><br>another question is there any available data for hour by hour peaks? Are we to asume that in May 2009 bandwidth usage was sustained to 29% of the network for the entire period of 4pm to 2 am? ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:26:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22816083</link>
<description><![CDATA[otty posted : "As of May 2009, these numbers have increased..." - Bell<br><br>Actually if 14% of total users were wholesale users in 2008, and they used 27% of the total usage of wholesle/retail combined, that is LESS per wholesale user now that 16% of total users using 29% of total usage in May 2009. <br><br>The wholesale/retail usage discrepency PER USER has decreased from December 2008 to May 2009. <br><br>The only thing that has increased is wholesale subscribers.<br><br>The fact that wholesale users are using less per user suggests that more mainstream consumers are now turning away from Bell and towards alternatives at an ever increasing rate  :p]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:22:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22816073</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1627906" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1627906');">freejazz_RdJ</a>:</small><br><br>Mlerner, you make points that are valid, if only on the surface in some cases.<br><br>-The increased usage potentially caused by ADSL2 tiers offered by Bell retail makes no difference. The stat is that of all the usage in the network, wholesale customer consumer nearly twice as much bandwidth in % terms than they represent in actual % of connections. There is no need to consider the sync speed in this figure, if anything, that would further prove Bell's case: "Even with our 10Mbps+ speeds, wholesale customers still use twice the bandwidth on the network than they represent by % of customers"<br><br>-The AHSSPI costs are paid by ISP's. But what does the AHSSPI include? From what I can tell, no fixed amount of capacity beyond the port at the POI. It's not like when a new AHSSPI is added there is 1Gbps of new ether distributed to all of that ISP's clients in each of the wire centres. How do would you distribute this capacity to each CO?<br><br>And by per-endpoint, I mean per DSL loop. It would be a little silly if I could circumvent a comcast-like fairness system by creating multiple PPPoE connections over 1 physical DSL line to get X time the bandwidth up to my physical DSL line's capacity. For example, I'm a big user and throttled to 1Mb/s because it's busy based on the "comcast" systems. I create 5 PPPoE sessions to allow me to get 5Mb/s. This is why it would have to be per dsl loop.<br> </div>Yes but customer speeds do play an impact in the stats especially since they claim the congestion is the in the aggregation network. ALL customer traffic passes through the aggregation network. Granted these stats are recorded on an average basis but if 20% of customers were on 5 mbps sustained for a period of 24 hours and then the next 24 hours they were on 10 mbps, you better believe you'd see more usage on the aggregation network. This is the same aggregation network linking wholesale and retail to the different endpoints on the Bell network. If they don't upgrade to accommodate the usage that affects the capacity of the network.<br><br>Now as per the AHSSPI you can read it yourself. &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regulatoryinformation/tarrifs/index.php/ItemLevel.asp?Tariff=GT%20%20%20&Part=%20%20%205" >www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regulator&middot;&middot;&middot;0%20%205</A> Item 5410<br><br>Notice it only mentions "burstable". Now burstable in the bandwidth world means "up to" yes but not to the extent that the network is 110% oversold that you can be artificially limited at peak times regardless of whether the capacity is available or not. Furthermore it perfectly lays out the available capacity options. <br><br>Now if a tier one provider gave you burstable but then proceeded to set artificial throttling regardless of usage, would that not be a breach of contract?<br><br>This is no different and as a matter of fact if is that much of a problem Bell Canada should not be selling the service to new clients but they are. For a tier one bandwidth provider who couldn't provide enough bandwidth they wouldn't be selling connections to new customers without ensuring there was adequate capacity. If the aggregation network is the problem they need to upgrade plain and simple.<br><br>Now what does this per-endpoint thing have anything to do with this? Bell provides 5 Mbps to wholesale customers, customer is supposed to get 5 Mbps. That is the endpoint speed.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 21:19:08 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815872</link>
<description><![CDATA[freejazz_RdJ posted : Mlerner, you make points that are valid, if only on the surface in some cases.<br><br>-The increased usage potentially caused by ADSL2 tiers offered by Bell retail makes no difference. The stat is that of all the usage in the network, wholesale customer consumer nearly twice as much bandwidth in % terms than they represent in actual % of connections. There is no need to consider the sync speed in this figure, if anything, that would further prove Bell's case: "Even with our 10Mbps+ speeds, wholesale customers still use twice the bandwidth on the network than they represent by % of customers"<br><br>-The AHSSPI costs are paid by ISP's. But what does the AHSSPI include? From what I can tell, no fixed amount of capacity beyond the port at the POI. It's not like when a new AHSSPI is added there is 1Gbps of new ether distributed to all of that ISP's clients in each of the wire centres. How do would you distribute this capacity to each CO?<br><br>And by per-endpoint, I mean per DSL loop. It would be a little silly if I could circumvent a comcast-like fairness system by creating multiple PPPoE connections over 1 physical DSL line to get X time the bandwidth up to my physical DSL line's capacity. For example, I'm a big user and throttled to 1Mb/s because it's busy based on the "comcast" systems. I create 5 PPPoE sessions to allow me to get 5Mb/s. This is why it would have to be per dsl loop.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:35:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815836</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : You're missing the entire point, finite does not mean artificial limitation. If Bell kept up maintaining capacity the figures wouldn't be that skewed in the first place. How the hell is wholesale consuming more if speeds aren't going up? Who's to say the increase in usage isn't to do with ADSL2 tiers Bell is selling? Furthermore the providers are paying for transit links, it's only natural that capacity increase = increased usage. What do you mean by per-endpoint? wholesale providers are paying for the AHSPPI + ~$20 per customer. How can they charge more?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:28:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815781</link>
<description><![CDATA[freejazz_RdJ posted : Is anybody missing the fact that 14% or 16% of users using 27% and 29% of a finite resource is inequitable if the balance of users are sacrificing (by being throttled without MLPPP/VPN/SSH workarounds) their speeds in the name of equity? This kind of inequitable distribution wouldn't be tolerated with water from a common aquifer, school funding or all manner of things, why is it any more fair in this context? <br><br>It's also clear that either throttling P2P isn't working and/or P2P isn't the major source of consumption and/or MLPPP/SSH/VPN are effective countermeasures. Perhaps the move to a per-endpoint model which would basically even these numbers out, much to the chagrin of what appears to be the high-usage client base of the wholesale customers, would be a net benefit to Bell. However, off peak, this would still allow un-even usage by wholesale clients which is fine by me... unused capacity at one point in time can't be saved for later, so make full use of it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 20:19:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815421</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : Alright JF you have to call out the BS and hope the CRTC wakes up. This is beyond piss poor network management, this is stupidity.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:10:13 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815408</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1621129" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1621129');">grunze510</a>:</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1427659" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1427659');">jfmezei</a>:</small><br><br>December 2008, consuming 27% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they were only 14% of the total base of end-users.  As of May 2009, these numbers have increased and wholesale users are now consuming 29% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they are only 16% of the total base of end-users.  This amount is now more than double from their consumption levels prior to deployment of traffic shaping even though their share of the total base has not really changed.</div>They're "complaining" about 29%?<br> </div>What they are saying is that they operate their network within 10-15% of peak capacity at all times. This is piss poor network management and capacity planning. No wonder the 'Michael Jackson' event sent their network down the drain.<br><br>If you did this within any major corporation, eg. the Royal Bank, you'd be fired on the spot.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 19:08:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815188</link>
<description><![CDATA[grunze510 posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1427659" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1427659');">jfmezei</a>:</small><br><br>December 2008, consuming 27% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they were only 14% of the total base of end-users.  As of May 2009, these numbers have increased and wholesale users are now consuming 29% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they are only 16% of the total base of end-users.  This amount is now more than double from their consumption levels prior to deployment of traffic shaping even though their share of the total base has not really changed.</div>They're "complaining" about 29%?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:36:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22815167</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Here is the "updated" paragraph 18:<br><br>18.&#9;The Companies submit that the Applicants have failed to raise substantial doubt as to the correctness of Decision 2008-108.  Furthermore, consistent with the Commission's finding in Decision 2008-108 that GAS customers during peak periods would contribute to the network congestion that exists in the Companies' networks , the Companies stated in their response to The Companies(CRTC)4Dec08-9 PN 2008-19  that wholesale end-users were, in <br><br>December 2008, consuming 27% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they were only 14% of the total base of end-users.  As of May 2009, these numbers have increased and wholesale users are now consuming 29% of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they are only 16% of the total base of end-users.  This amount is now more than double from their consumption levels prior to deployment of traffic shaping even though their share of the total base has not really changed.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:32:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22811121</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Bell was told to release that information on August 4th. (that is today, tuesday). Those of us involved with the R&V have until August 10th to comment on those numbers.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:04:33 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22810733</link>
<description><![CDATA[otty posted : Thanks so musch for the clarification MGK.<br><br>"...it would not be appropriate to maintain the confidentiality of similar information filed in confidence at paragraph 18 of Bell Canada et al.&#8217;s 22 June 2009 comments on CAIP et al,&#8217;s Part VII application, as such information is not consistently treated as confidential by Bell Canada."<br><br>Ok so this info has not yet been released but the CRTC has now required its release. When ca we expect it?<br><br>Hopefully this will catch Bell in a blatent lie.<br><br>Bell lawyers are VERY good at spinning this stuff however...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22810733</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:28:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22798623</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1591150" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1591150');">otty</a>:</small><br><br>PLease clarify.<br> </div>During the hearing in July, Bell spouted off some stats - in public - which dealt with the traffic that alleged p2p users who were independent isp customers generated.<br><br>The Commission asked Bell to clarify their statement during the hearing but the Bell lawyer didn't have all the info at his fingertips, and so an undertaking was given to the CRTC to provide that data in the final submission.<br><br>Bell did provide the data in their final submission but did so "in confidence" - meaning that, of course, the data was not subject to analysis or challenge by anyone - as JF pointed out, if it isn't challenged then the CRTC must accept it as 'fact'.<br><br>CAIP et. al. filed a petition (here  &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crtc.gc.ca/public/partvii/2008/8646/c12_200815400/1248477.pdf" >www.crtc.gc.ca/public/partvii/20&middot;&middot;&middot;8477.pdf</A> ) with the CRTC almost immediately upon finding out that the data was submitted 'in confidence' to force the public release of that data. The CRTC letter/order JF posted above is the direct result of that petition.<br><br>Now anyone who participated in the R&V will be able to get Bell's stats, analyze them, and discuss their meaning with the CRTC.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22798623</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:35:38 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22798000</link>
<description><![CDATA[otty posted : Ok too drun and tired to review links right now but: <br><br>Is a "process letter" a final decision or a temporary setting of the status quo?<br><br>I sort of flinched when I saw this and said "holy shi*t after all those hearings on throttling they just say this and it's over".<br><br>I think my knee jerk was too soon and too easy, but that's what I'vve come to expect from the CRTC (except the quick decision).<br><br>PLease clarify.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22798000</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 02:31:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22797930</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : On July 31, the Commission issued a new process letter for the Review and Vary of the 2008-108 decision (granting Bell the right to throttle competitors).<br><br>Some highlights:<br><br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>Commission staff notes that at paragraph 18 of its 22 June 2009 comments on CAIP et al.&#146;s <br>Part VII application Bell Canada et al. provided information related to the bandwidth <br>consumed by wholesale end-users in confidence. As CAIP et al. noted in its 24 July 2009 <br>letter, Bell Canada subsequently placed similar information on the public record of the PN <br>2008-19 proceeding.  <br><br>Commission staff considers that in light of Bell Canada et al.&#146;s voluntary public disclosures <br>in the PN 2008-19 proceeding, it would not be appropriate to maintain the confidentiality of <br>similar information filed in confidence at paragraph 18 of Bell Canada et al.&#146;s 22 June 2009 <br>comments on CAIP et al,&#146;s Part VII application, as such information is not consistently <br>treated as confidential by Bell Canada. In this regard, Commission staff considers that the <br>harm likely to result from the disclosure of the information in question does not outweigh the <br>public interest in its disclosure. Therefore, Bell Canada et al. is to provide on the public <br>record the information filed in confidence at paragraph 18 of its 22 June 2009 comments by <br>4 August 2009.  <br> <br>Parties that have commented in the R&V applications proceeding may file additional <br>comments, serving a copy on other parties, related solely to the information provided by <br>Bell Canada et al. by 10 August 2009.  <br><br><hr></blockquote><br><br>In short: during the R&V process, Bell submitted stuff in confidence. During the Public Hearings, they publically released information that had been made private in the R&V.<br><br>Paragraph 18 of Bell's R&V submission stated:<br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr>18.&#9;The Companies submit that the Applicants have failed to raise substantial doubt as to the correctness of Decision 2008-108.  Furthermore, consistent with the Commission's finding in Decision 2008-108 that GAS customers during peak periods would contribute to the network congestion that exists in the Companies' networks , the Companies stated in their response to The Companies(CRTC)4Dec08-9 PN 2008-19  that wholesale end-users were, in <br><br>December 2008, consuming &#9;# of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they were only &#9;# of the total base of end-users.  As of May 2009, these numbers have increased and wholesale users are now consuming &#9;# of the bandwidth during peak periods even though they are only &#9;# of the total base of end-users.  This amount is now more than double from their consumption levels prior to deployment of traffic shaping even though their share of the total base has not really changed.<br><hr></blockquote><br><br>The R&V file is at:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://crtc.gc.ca/partvii/eng/2009/8662/p8_200907727.htm" >crtc.gc.ca/partvii/eng/2009/8662&middot;&middot;&middot;7727.htm</A><br>and<br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://crtc.gc.ca/partvii/eng/2009/8662/v42_200907826.htm" >crtc.gc.ca/partvii/eng/2009/8662&middot;&middot;&middot;7826.htm</A> (they focused on the first one)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 02:01:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22725271</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : Well now that is on public record, if they change it again we can challenge them and hopefully get a verdict faster.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22725271</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:21:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22724801</link>
<description><![CDATA[mazhurg posted : Difference is? Not on the determination time-line but what makes it a type 1 vs 2?<br><small>--<br>"Vision without funds....<br>       is a hallucination"</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22724801</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:07:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22724755</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Now I am confused.... They just said that it was Type 2, now they say it is type 1.<br><br> <blockquote><small>quote:</small><hr> <br>Dear Sirs: <br> <br>Re: Part VII Applications Requesting a Review and Vary of Telecom <br>Decision CRTC 2008-108  <br> <br> <br>Further to Commission staff&#146;s letter dated 15 July 2009 regarding the time by which the <br>Commission expects to issue an interim or final determination in the above-noted <br>applications: Commission staff notes that, consistent with the service standard for a <br>Type 1 application, the Commission expects to issue an interim or final determination <br>with respect to these applications within four months of the close-of-record. <br> <br>Yours sincerely, <br> <br> <br>Original signed by  <br> <br>Yvan Davidson, <br>Senior Manager,  <br>Competition, Costing & Tariffs <br><br><hr></blockquote>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:01:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22718990</link>
<description><![CDATA[Jazdi posted : Time of day billing is a good idea, the goal of which should be to flatten out the daily usage graph so as to be making the most effective use of the network's capacity. Unfortunately, none of the current UBB offerings have this effect. With a 60gb cap, I have no incentive to not use all those 60gb during peak hours. Instead, it would seem appropriate if a somewhat lower cap was offered during peak hours, while leaving off-peak hours completely unmetered. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:08:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22718568</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Consider that ISTOP had a plan where you have unlimited during overnight hours, and limited t 100gigs (I think) during the day/evening.<br><br>So it wasn't so much the cost of bits changing during the day, but rather that you had unmetered during the overnight, and metered during the day. Nobody complained about that. The package was primarily 100gigs, with the overnight-unlimited being icing on the cake.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22718568</guid>
<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:01:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22716027</link>
<description><![CDATA[freejazz_RdJ posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1427659" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1427659');">jfmezei</a>:</small><br><br>It isn't stupid.  Yes, there is a way to spin it to look stupid.<br><br>But from a network instrastructure, the guy at 512kbps downloading 5gigs of data may take 5 days to do this, but during this time, he won't strain the network much.<br><br>The guy at 5mbps may only take a couple of hours to download the same, but during those hours, he will put a much greater load on the network.<br><br>10 customers at 512kbps downloading a large file at the same time take the same bandwidth as 1 customer downloading the same file at 5mbps.<br> </div>JF: Isn't this saying you're looking towards a time time-of-day pricing flavor of UBB? Or one in which the cost per bit increases as the user places a greater and greater strain on the network and the overall demand on the network increases?<br><br>I haven't read all the submissions yet, but I'll do so tomorrow on my clot-inducing Halifax-Toronto-Vancouver flight. Lots of time to kill since the content on AC's VOD is pretty weak.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:57:10 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22714031</link>
<description><![CDATA[WaitForGodot posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1652067" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1652067');">MaynardKrebs</a>:</small><br><br>And then there is one, which for political reasons may be delayed for 5-6 years.<br> </div>... maybe till after the next Government is elected. :D]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:36:22 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22713020</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : And then there is one, which for political reasons may be delayed for 5-6 years.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22713020</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:45:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22711961</link>
<description><![CDATA[mlerner posted : Has any of these proceedings *ever* been given type 1? I mean I know they have to do research and such but up to 8 months?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22711961</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:56:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22711933</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : CRTC has issued a policy on when they will give their answer to the Thorttling.<br><br>(long interruption due to Hydro Qu&eacute;bec power outage)<br><br>Dear Sirs:<br><br>Re: Part VII Applications Requesting a Review and Vary of Telecom Decision CRTC 2008-108<br><br>In Service standards for the disposition of telecommunications applications, Telecom Circular CRTC 2006-11, 7 December 2006, the Commission stated that it would categorize Part VII applications into two types: <br><br>Type 1 applications that generally do not involve multiple parties or raise significant policy issues and Type 2 applications that do involve multiple parties and/or raise significant policy issues<br><br>The Commission also adopted the following service standards for Part VII applications:<br><br>&#149; Type 1 Part VII applications &#150; 90 percent of determinations to be issued on an interim or final basis within four months of the close-of-record; and<br><br>&#149; Type 2 Part VII applications &#150; 85 percent of determinations to be issued on an interim or final basis within eight months of the close-of-record.<br>- 2 -<br><br>The Commission stated that it would inform applicants, by letter, within 10 days of the end of the comment period for applications, whether the application is considered to be a Type 1 or Type 2 application, and the applicable service standard.<br><br>Commission staff has assessed the above application and considers it to be a Type 2 application. Accordingly, the Commission expects to issue an interim or final determination within eight months of the close-of-record.<br><br>Yours sincerely,<br>Original signed by<br>Yvan Davidson,<br>Senior Manager,<br>Competition, Costing & Tariffs]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:52:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22654091</link>
<description><![CDATA[ohmer posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1427659" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1427659');">jfmezei</a>:</small><br><br>It isn't a question of "pay more get less".<br><br>It is a question of:<br><br>Higher speeds enable downloads of much larger files, so you pay more for those added capabilities.<br><br>You can still download large files are slow speeds, but it will take days/weeks/months to download compared to modern speeds.<br><br>Lets face it, between 5mbps and 100mbps, downloading a web page won't make much of a difference. But downloading a movie, especially HD quality will make a big difference in time needed for the download. So it is normal you would pay more for the 100mbps usage.<br> </div>But the user already pay more to compensate the load on the network (512k profil cost less than a 5m)...  Now you want to let them pay still more but receive less.  You will never convince a majority of subscriber with this.<br><br>There is no deal to have greater speed with less bandwith.  Many Videotron customer complaints about that when Videotron increase speed without increase the caps.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:45:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653593</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : It isn't a question of "pay more get less".<br><br>It is a question of:<br><br>Higher speeds enable downloads of much larger files, so you pay more for those added capabilities.<br><br>You can still download large files are slow speeds, but it will take days/weeks/months to download compared to modern speeds.<br><br>Lets face it, between 5mbps and 100mbps, downloading a web page won't make much of a difference. But downloading a movie, especially HD quality will make a big difference in time needed for the download. So it is normal you would pay more for the 100mbps usage.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653593</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:13:40 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653567</link>
<description><![CDATA[ohmer posted : But for the customer it's : pay more, get less.  You will never be able to make this accepted by customers...]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653567</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:05:23 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653563</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : It isn't stupid.  Yes, there is a way to spin it to look stupid.<br><br>But from a network instrastructure, the guy at 512kbps downloading 5gigs of data may take 5 days to do this, but during this time, he won't strain the network much.<br><br>The guy at 5mbps may only take a couple of hours to download the same, but during those hours, he will put a much greater load on the network.<br><br>10 customers at 512kbps downloading a large file at the same time take the same bandwidth as 1 customer downloading the same file at 5mbps.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653563</guid>
<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 12:03:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653524</link>
<description><![CDATA[ohmer posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by <a href="/profile/1427659" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1427659');">jfmezei</a>:</small><br><br>Also, UBB rates should vary according to line speed. The slower the line, the less congestion you can cause and hence, the lower the UBB rates should be.<br> </div>I don't agree.  Lower profile already cost less.  It's stupid to have a 512kbits line with 200 gig caps while 5mbits have 30gb and pay more... (just an example).]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:46:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22653168</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : UBB for the retail side is probably inevitable.<br><br>But it should be fairly priced, not the punitive fees currently charged by the likes of Videotron.<br><br>Also, UBB rates should vary according to line speed. The slower the line, the less congestion you can cause and hence, the lower the UBB rates should be.<br><br>BUT, on the IP transit side, it is all about capacity, not about usage. And that isn't likely to change. Transit providers need to have enough fibre to support the capacity they sell. If they don't they have congestio problems and they then lose business.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:31:31 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22652334</link>
<description><![CDATA[mazhurg posted : <div class="bquote"><small>said by mouser :</small><br><br>I liked both submissions, but I have to disagree with the point the CAIP makes in mentioning that UBB being used as an alternative to throttling... that could bite them back in future submissions related to tarrif's<br> </div>UBB in and by itself is not evil. While information itself can (or not) be free, the carrying of that information has a cost. How UBB is implemented defines it's underlying purpose.<br><br>Properly implemented, UBB would recover the cost of delivering information in addition to a reasonable profit for infrastructure modernization along with a reasonable ROI.<br><br>The trick in UBB is that its control must be kept away from those who would most benefit from the temptation of abusing it.<br><small>--<br>"Vision without funds....<br>       is a hallucination"</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22652334</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:33:46 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22651504</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : I liked both submissions, but I have to disagree with the point the CAIP makes in mentioning that UBB being used as an alternative to throttling... that could bite them back in future submissions related to tarrif's]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22651504</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:00:26 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22649237</link>
<description><![CDATA[MaynardKrebs posted : Kudos to JF & CAIP.<br><br>JF, excellent disassembly of the Sympatico 'straw man'.<br><br>Also, in your paragraph 32, I would have added that this practice probably an offence under the Criminal Code  .... but that's just me talking.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:18:27 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22649118</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Yup. I liked Vaxinations/JF's submission.<br><br>Very easy to read. Very easy to understand. Very good points brought forth.<br><br>I don't see how the CRTC can ignore them (again).<br><br>Very well done.<br><br>It goes a bit deeper and IN YOUR FACE type thing which CAIP's doesn't do (CAIP's is more "reserved/refined").<br><br>I liked it.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:55:24 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22648945</link>
<description><![CDATA[R0CKY posted : Just finished reading your submission JF.... good work.  Between both submissions, I believe just about everything possible has been covered!]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:04:18 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22648888</link>
<description><![CDATA[derekm posted : CAIP's submission is good.  <br><br>The only thing that I would have liked to see is at the end for the CRTC to:<br><br>- Issue an order mandating removal of DPI capabilities from the GAS links<br><br>Throttling is only one aspect of the evils of DPI - while currently it's the most obvious, removal of throttling does not protect our privacy, or protect us from other nasties down the road.  jf touched on this in his submission.<br><br>jf - don't be too hard on yourself - CAIP's submission had a team of people working on it. Without being a paid lobbyist, there is only so much time you can spend. You did well for yourself!]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:39:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22648794</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : TY or posting that JF.<br><br>If anymore come your way, please do post.<br><br>Also, even if you are not happy with your reply (I haven't read it yet, but will now), I think you tried more than anyone else (associations aside) and had a very deep passion in what was pulled on everyone. You were, and are, a voice of a thousand people easy.<br><br>So no matter what, you did your very best to bring it all together and present it on behalf of everyone.<br><br>Be proud and be happy.<br><br>Thanks for all your effort. I for one appreciate what you have done and thank you.<br><br>Reading time now. :)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:01:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22648731</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Last night was the deadline for the final comments on the R&V for throttling.<br><br>The CAIP et Al document followed by mine. (not too happy about mine)<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1445389~572b62733237bb57791279c632e847e0/2008-108_RV_Reply_2July09FINAL.pdf">2008-108_RV_&middot;&middot;&middot;INAL.pdf</A></TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1445390~f25d06fcfee813f8c1d16ddaaa08843d/vaxination_r%26v_final.pdf">vaxination_r&middot;&middot;&middot;inal.pdf</A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:21:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22626730</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : Am working on the Bell reply. It may have been short, but when one reads it carefully, it is quite smart.<br><br>Hey Mr Deadpool, if you speak to your buddy Mr Bibic, tell him that I think he has earned his salary at Bell. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:45:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22626389</link>
<description><![CDATA[jfmezei posted : There is a newcomer to the review and vary. Didn't get a copy by email.<br><br>And CRTC had added the CFPTA to the web site and it seems to be gone now. <br><br>The CISP submission doesn't discuss throttling at all. However, it does provide soem advise on allowing ISPs access to the CO where they can connect to the region's DSLAMS and which would then remove from the ILEC the need to "traffic manage" the network because independant,s traffic would leave Bell's network at the CO.<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1443991~609c21ac9f253d42a5c7443e0180442e/090622-CISP-Comments-letter.pdf">090622-CISP-&middot;&middot;&middot;tter.pdf</A></TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1443992~5ae0705c00900ad709b83514c3b188d9/090622-CISP-Comments-ATTACHMENT.pdf">090622-CISP-&middot;&middot;&middot;MENT.pdf</A></TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/r0/download/1443993~2841ea650d4b094ded0a03a245493b4b/090622-CISP-ATTACHMENT%20Appendix%201%20-Evidence-Dr.%20Barnes%20-%20Essenti">090622-CISP-&middot;&middot;&middot; Essenti</A><br>very log file name, .pdf may be missing<br><small>(090622-CISP-ATTACHMENT Appendix 1 -Evidence-Dr. Barnes - Essential Services for)</small></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:19:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: Status of 2008-108 Throttling Review and Vary</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Status-of-2008108-Throttling-Review-and-Vary-22609514</link>
<description><![CDATA[anon posted : Your postings have made it on the Dr. Geist website and p2pnet:<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4082/196/" >www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4082/196/</A><br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23941" >www.p2pnet.net/story/23941</A><br><br>Thanks for keeping us all in the loop.<br><br><i>P2PNet points to a submission from the Canadian Film and Television Production Association that argues that Bell's throttling practices unduly disadvantage P2P content, P2P apps, and end-users accessing legal P2P content.</i>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:30:03 EDT</pubDate>
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