  mlerner Premium join:2000-11-25 Nepean, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Bell Sympatico
| reply to justsomeguy Re: Canada's slipping position on net access cost & speed
said by justsomeguy :So when/if Bell gets around to doing FTTH, are companies like Teksavvy going to be rolling out FTTH, or are they going to wait until Bell does FTTH and then convince the government to let Teksavvy use the other companies lines again? Working on it, problem is it'll take years and it's a huge undertaking plus with Bell's underhanded tactics, they may decide to play hardball. Despite what you may think, Bell is not at all guilty in all of this, they'd rather have no competition at all. That's not the way to do business. |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| reply to justsomeguy I'm going to be generous assume you're not one of these build your own trolls... but here goes.
TSI is already building out fiber in areas where they have right of way.
They don't have right of way in most urban areas because the incumbents have lobbied to keep them out on all fronts.
Make sense now?
You may want to look up some history, and get a little more information before trotting out the: build your own, get facilities at the CO etc etc...
If it was that easy, there would be no need for tariffs, access guarantess and such. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| reply to justsomeguy said by justsomeguy :Its not pie in the sky. What we have here is a bunch of companies in Canada that are happy reselling Bell's lines, Reselling my lines, paid for with mine and my parent's tax dollars thank you. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
 justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08 London, ON
| said by El Quintron :said by justsomeguy :Its not pie in the sky. What we have here is a bunch of companies in Canada that are happy reselling Bell's lines, Reselling my lines, paid for with mine and my parent's tax dollars thank you. How much money did Bell get and when?
Got any hard facts on this? I do not dispute that they have received some help in the past. I'd like to see the numbers. |
|
 justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08 London, ON
| reply to mlerner said by mlerner :said by justsomeguy :So when/if Bell gets around to doing FTTH, are companies like Teksavvy going to be rolling out FTTH, or are they going to wait until Bell does FTTH and then convince the government to let Teksavvy use the other companies lines again? Working on it, problem is it'll take years and it's a huge undertaking plus with Bell's underhanded tactics, they may decide to play hardball. Despite what you may think, Bell is not at all guilty in all of this, they'd rather have no competition at all. That's not the way to do business. Taking years is miles ahead of doing nothing. From my understanding, TSI has chosen to test some fibre out in a rural community. That is commendable and hopefully they will try something like a block in Toronto or something soon. |
|
  pnjunction Teksavvy Premium Premium join:2008-01-24 Toronto, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
1 edit | said by justsomeguy :Taking years is miles ahead of doing nothing. From my understanding, TSI has chosen to test some fibre out in a rural community. That is commendable and hopefully they will try something like a block in Toronto or something soon. The problem is I never see that happening. It's one thing for a rural area to let a small company build out some service.
Toronto, on the other hand, is not going to want to deal with small companies. A patchwork of small companies building out in different areas would be a nightmare for them. It's just too easy for them to only rubber stamp Bell/Rogers applications to do infrastructure work.
Edit: I don't know the exact right-of-way situation, this is just the impression that I get. |
|
  BYO Troll
@teksavvy.com
| reply to justsomeguy said by justsomeguy :said by El Quintron :said by justsomeguy :Its not pie in the sky. What we have here is a bunch of companies in Canada that are happy reselling Bell's lines, Reselling my lines, paid for with mine and my parent's tax dollars thank you. How much money did Bell get and when? Got any hard facts on this? I do not dispute that they have received some help in the past. I'd like to see the numbers. Perhaps you should stick with Bell then seeing as you admire them so much after all they've been so wonderful for Canada... |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| reply to justsomeguy said by justsomeguy : I'd like to see the numbers. And I'd like to see some research from you before coming onto this forum and asking for free dry-loops and FTTH.
A red carpet to your computer perhaps?
Other point worthy of mention here is that with wireline type of infrastructure you do need some type of regulation regarding how much of it you can put up (or down) in an urban area.
If you looked at the amount of Telephone and Electric wiring in the sky in NYC towards the end of the 1800... there were wires everywhere.
How about you try contributing possible solutions rather persecuting providers who are actually on the consumer's side. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
 justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08 London, ON
| said by El Quintron :said by justsomeguy : I'd like to see the numbers. And I'd like to see some research from you before coming onto this forum and asking for free dry-loops and FTTH. A red carpet to your computer perhaps? Other point worthy of mention here is that with wireline type of infrastructure you do need some type of regulation regarding how much of it you can put up (or down) in an urban area. If you looked at the amount of Telephone and Electric wiring in the sky in NYC towards the end of the 1800... there were wires everywhere. How about you try contributing possible solutions rather persecuting providers who are actually on the consumer's side. I'm not persecuting anyone, but for someone claiming that they and their parents are paying for Bell's current infrastructure, I would like to see some data on that.
So the challenge is out there, you arent the only one who has made this claim.
Here is the challenge:
Find out how much money Bell has received from the government and when it received this money. |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| said by justsomeguy :Here is the challenge: Find out how much money Bell has received from the government and when it received this money. Here is the real challenge:
Find a solution to Canada's Telecom infrastructure problems without begging for free stuff from your ISP (ie: »Bell/Acanac can but Teksavvy can't? )
and stop quoting popular talking points from BYO Trolls... -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
 backness
join:2005-07-08 K2P OW2
| reply to justsomeguy How about you do some basic research on Elasticity. I would pay particular attention to Inelastic supply.
Here is a good primer: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_(economics) |
|
  ssherwood
join:2002-02-23 Toronto, ON
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to justsomeguy said by justsomeguy :I'm not persecuting anyone, but for someone claiming that they and their parents are paying for Bell's current infrastructure, I would like to see some data on that. So the challenge is out there, you arent the only one who has made this claim. Here is the challenge: Find out how much money Bell has received from the government and when it received this money. The real stumbling block isn't a determination of Bell's recent or current infrastructure investments, which largely would be measured before the so-called "last mile" of the network.
What 3rd party providers pay through the nose for is access to this legacy cabling, which yes, was largely paid for by tax payer dollars when Bell was a crown corporation. This "last mile" of the network was paid for by you, me, and previous generations too.
It is an unfortunate thing to have to rehash this point over and over again. It isn't a matter of speculation - its a commonly known fact.
The twisted copper pairs going into the vast majority of Canadian homes and businesses have been there for a very, very long time.
-- SS |
|
  An_Onymous
@teksavvy.com
| reply to pnjunction >A patchwork of small companies building out in different areas would be a nightmare for them.
Agree. You don't want 15 different ISP digging up the same road at different time in the month just because each of them needs to get from their CO to their own customer in the same apartment complex.
At some point one company need to own the last mile in the city. Same situation in the power grid and gas lines. |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON | Ideally the city would own the fiber infrastructure. Or manage it if they didn't own it, with a mandate to provide access for all ISPs. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
 justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08 London, ON
| reply to ssherwood said by ssherwood :said by justsomeguy :I'm not persecuting anyone, but for someone claiming that they and their parents are paying for Bell's current infrastructure, I would like to see some data on that. So the challenge is out there, you arent the only one who has made this claim. Here is the challenge: Find out how much money Bell has received from the government and when it received this money. The real stumbling block isn't a determination of Bell's recent or current infrastructure investments, which largely would be measured before the so-called "last mile" of the network. What 3rd party providers pay through the nose for is access to this legacy cabling, which yes, was largely paid for by tax payer dollars when Bell was a crown corporation. This "last mile" of the network was paid for by you, me, and previous generations too. It is an unfortunate thing to have to rehash this point over and over again. It isn't a matter of speculation - its a commonly known fact. The twisted copper pairs going into the vast majority of Canadian homes and businesses have been there for a very, very long time. -- SS Bell Canada was never a crown corporation! |
|
 justsomeguy
join:2007-10-08 London, ON
| reply to El Quintron said by El Quintron :said by justsomeguy :Here is the challenge: Find out how much money Bell has received from the government and when it received this money. Here is the real challenge: Find a solution to Canada's Telecom infrastructure problems without begging for free stuff from your ISP (ie: » Bell/Acanac can but Teksavvy can't? ) and stop quoting popular talking points from BYO Trolls... When was I begging for stuff? I was curious about something in that thread. I got the answer I was looking for. |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| said by justsomeguy :When was I begging for stuff? I was curious about something in that thread. I got the answer I was looking for. What you were doing was asking a loaded question, and wondering why the ISP you were considering purchasing from wouldn't price match.
Sound like begging to me.
Now for the crown/non-crown issue:
quote: There is one of their services where they are different and that is in the provision of physical wiring to our homes. This is a service where Bell was given privileged right of way access by various levels of government to place cabling (copper, fiber, etc) below and above public and private land. Bell could never offer this service without government intervention, and the superior property right is the public and private property that the cables run below and above not the cabling.
Bell was given a number of requirements in exchange for this privileged government intervention. Historically the most often discussed was rural access, where Bell was mandated to offer phone services to rural locations even at what might otherwise have been a loss, except for the fact that they were given practically guaranteed profits in other markets by the government, as well as massive government subsidies over the years. More recently the condition discusses more often is competitive access to the facilities which the public sector made possible (through right of way and subsidies) to allow services built upon this last mile to be provided by a competitive private sector.
I will state what seems to be the core of the confusion: when it comes to this last mile wiring below and above our property, the service that Bell Canada manages can no more be considered privately owned by Bell than Canada Post can be considered private. While the ideal would have been if this specific service had been separated by Bell Canada and operated as a proper crown corporation, we cant go back in time and fix this problem
»blogs.itworldcanada.com/insights···ottling/
Consider this you one and only research freebie. Next time you can expect a bill for a couple of hundred bucks. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
 backness
join:2005-07-08 K2P OW2
| reply to justsomeguy Correct however they did enjoy a 100 year MONOPOLY on long distance in Canada.
»www.nytimes.com/1992/06/13/busin···lls.html |
|
  El Quintron Could you spare a consulting gig?
join:2008-04-28 Etobicoke, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Acanac
| It don't matter what we're dealing with here is Bell Astroturfing...
Notice how no matter what you say, the focus is always towards defending Bell's position, or showing that Bell is equal to or Better than TSI?
Stating that Bell isn't a crown corporation, Bell offers DryLoops for free etc etc.
Long thoughtful full replies are met with "well Bell isn't like that" or "Bell offers this service"
justsomeguy : Money that could be used on building a better network but better spent on Astroturfing. -- Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
|
  ssherwood
join:2002-02-23 Toronto, ON
·Bell Sympatico
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to justsomeguy said by justsomeguy :Bell Canada was never a crown corporation! Well - perhaps they weren't technically owned by the government the same way AGT was, and SaskTEL still is, but they did enjoy HUGE subsidies from government to roll out infrastructure across their territories.
They lived in the government's back pocket, and were essentially given a monopolistic umbrella to operate under.
Sounds like CC material to me.
-- SS |
|