High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston in World of Warcraft http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22487745 en Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:31:28 EDT Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:31:28 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22550722 hurley081182 : there have been post on wow forums about at&t messing up alot lately. idk if your connection is going to at&t chicago but that seems to be the cause for alot of ppl. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22550722 Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:16:50 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22502568 longstreet : Can you tell me which proxy company you ended up using?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22502568 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:18:23 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22497287 dietro : You didnt whine when MRE stopped making Pork with rice in BBQ sauce? I did.

Its the little things.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22497287 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:28:06 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22496653 Aazoth : i'm with pariah on his thing, i'm also in iraq and am constantly around 1500 latency on a VERY good night when no one is on i can hop down to 900 or so but either way i can dps just fine in raids and even ot naxx np with 900 latency so while it's not ideal to have that from your house in florida... people really whine too much when the internet isn't instant even when it has to travel hundreds of miles and come back to u before your perception can even pick it up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22496653 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:42:19 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22496041 longstreet : Which proxy company did you use?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22496041 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:47:34 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22495739 quatra : Hmmm. I was going to recommend this:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamerail

But it looks like there wasn't enough interest and they went offline a year ago. Creative solution though using a proxy. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22495739 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:48:37 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493979 Pariah666 : /sigh I only wish my latency were that low. I am averaging roughly 1800 consistantly...then again I am in Iraq...but still! :D The World of Lagcraft is in full effect here...the norm is hitting a key and waiting at least 6 seconds for desired effect. :huh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493979 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 03:00:34 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493716 dietro : This is a look at a dsl report test
Simple ping loss check

10secs of 40byte packets 2 per second 0% loss 48.3ms 56.4ms 66.2ms - pass

low bandwidth stream

10secs of 56k/bit ping stream 512byte packets 0% loss 48.8ms 56.6ms 74.2ms - pass

medium bandwidth stream

10secs of 128k/bit ping stream 512byte packets 0% loss 48.6ms 56.4ms 90.1ms - pass

your first hop ping

stream of 40byte pings to 68.86.168.114 0% loss 42.0ms You are 6ms to your first hop - pass

* * * * * * *

An interesting update, I might have found a resolution. I just set up a Proxy server located near the game server that I play on. I've reduced my latency by about 150ms. Contrary to the tcpackfrequency regedit this latency reduction actually "feels" real and not just cosmetic. An example of this is that npcs/players/and moveable objects in the game, like ore nodes, are actually now drawn immediately. Flying quickly thru a zone previously, even with the tcpackfrequency regedit I would see a node blip on the map and land on that spot only to wait for a full 1 or 2 seconds before the node appeared. Now I can see them from max distance while moving fast. Again the same is true for player characters and npcs that used to load very slowly.

With that being said, there is still some noticable slow downs within instances, bgs and arena. Which I suppose raises a whole set of new questions and a whole set of new issues which are still out of my control but interest me none the less.

*edit* despite your conversation being entirely over my head I've found this to be the best tech help I've recieved on any forum yet and I thank you both for your time and attention.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493716 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 01:03:45 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493675 NormanS :
said by longstreet See Profile :

Maybe my memory fails me. The routes are almost always different. Can you explain how one of blizzards servers (likely co-located) can 'choose' a path home?
BGP, which I admit to know not a lot about. Something about how networks use BGP to control packet egress (and probably ingress, as well). I expect that it is a cooperative effort for both source and destination. And likely not easy to tweak for latency performance.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493675 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:52:32 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493656 longstreet : Maybe my memory fails me. The routes are almost always different. Can you explain how one of blizzards servers (likely co-located) can 'choose' a path home?

Even if it really is ICMP, it's exactly like UDP in terms of it's reliability.

edit :

Found this

quote:
Many commonly-used network utilities are based on ICMP messages. The traceroute command is implemented by transmitting UDP datagrams with specially set IP TTL header fields, and looking for ICMP Time to live exceeded in transit (above) and "Destination unreachable" messages generated in response. The related ping utility is implemented using the ICMP "Echo request" and "Echo reply" messages.


I guess my memory is good after all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493656 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:47:22 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493597 NormanS :
said by longstreet See Profile :

In any event, the problem isn't wow and likely isn't the servers and connections they are hosted on.
He's got good latency in his own transit networks (Bellsouth and Comcast), so the trouble isn't likely between his equipment and the peer connection to AT&T.

I was reminded by a network guru who knows more than I that routes aren't always symmetrical. The forward path, which is shown by his trace route may not reflect the return path, which can only be seen by running a trace route from the game server back to his connection. If the return path is taking the long way home, he will see weird latency issues. To a great extent, that return path is under Blizzard's control.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493597 Thu, 04 Jun 2009 00:30:40 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493079 longstreet : It sounds like you're being limited by physical distance and number of hops. It's been some time since I had my theory classes in TCP/IP (> a decade), but if you've done all that . . . i'm stumped to come up with another solution.

Your connection isn't saturated is it? When you test, i'd try testing with a TCP ping / trace program.

Regular windows ping and iirc, tracert are powered by UDP, which isn't reliable when it comes to packet delivery.

Are you seeing packet loss with your dsl reports connection tests?

In any event, the problem isn't wow and likely isn't the servers and connections they are hosted on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22493079 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:52:39 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492853 dietro : Have I changed my hardware? I've changed everything! lol

But only in an attempt to correct the latency, I had done nothing before this issue began (except to download the wotlk patch)

Here are some things I have tried

Steps that I have taken to improve my latency:

Run traceroutes

Used programs like Wireshark, Pingplotter, 3dtraceroute, or the Command prompt

Optimize network

Used programs like DrTcp
Manually changed MTU, Enable or disable QoS
Change NIC settings: checksum offload disable, change duplex settings, large send offload disable, disable power management.
Open ports. 3724 tcp, 1119 tcp, 3724 udp, 6112 tcp, 6881-6999 tcp and ports to DNS usually 53 udp I think. .
Check that ports are open with PFPortChecker

Update firmware/drivers

Motherboard
Nic
Sound/Video
OS
Modem
Router

Edit Registry

TcpAckFrequency (this lowered my in-game latency dramatically on both xp and vista, seemed to improve character response time to mouse/keyboard inputs but did nothing for other latency related issues and didnt alter my Quartz latency timer at all)
TcpNoDelay

Change hardware

Took router out (connect directly to modem)
Different router
Different modem
Different NIC
Different PC

Other steps taken

Checked for VIruses
Delete WTF, WDB, interface folders
Clean up and defrag hard drive
Reinstall operating system, or install a different operating system
Reinstall game
Side-by-side ISP test (both cable and dsl)
Contacted both ISPs ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492853 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:16:26 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492672 longstreet : Did you recently change any hardware, do you use wireless, or upgrade your OS (or receive an update for it?)

this

»What your average MS response time in WoW?

Might solve your problem.

I went from 300 ish to 75 (even in Dalaran)

Be aware though, it will affect your max throughput in exchange for better latency.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492672 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:49:38 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492523 NormanS : It is probably somewhat more complicated than that. I am always forgetting about the return path issue. Packets not only travel from you to the server, but also come back. The return path isn't always the same as the forward path. If you can find someone at WoW willing to run a trace route to you, and you compare his trace to you with your trace to the server, you may see a significant difference.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22492523 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:25:44 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22491691 dietro : Thanks for the reply Norman.

So if 2 people with 2 different isps are going thru the same hops (basically) and one is experiencing much higher latency then the other does that mean that its possible that those attw are deprioritizing traffic from certain sources and not others? Like lower priority from bellsouth and comcast but not lower priority from roadrunner?

Obviously I've no clue about how networking works (or doesnt) but learning about WoW latency is my new WoW meta game.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22491691 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:03:20 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22491206 NormanS :
said by dietro See Profile :

First of all Norman, I've not pointed a finger at anyone. I'm asking for help (not condescension).

Secondly, I'm sure you're right that the issue is out of my control. But since I cant stand playing world of lagcraft I have alot of time on my hands to post these threads on any forum I can find.

Couple questions for you:

1. Is there no way that I can contact ATTW?
You are not their customer; odds are, even if you found a POC, they'd not listen.

2. Is blizzard connected thru DSL? and if so are they interleaved also?
More likely through some sort of link like an OCnn link; depends upon who, exactly, is providing their hosting. They have way too many gamers to be relying on an asymmetric DSL provider.

3. Is there absolutely no way that I can be routed around those particular ATTW routers?
Routing depends upon BGP announcement by the destination. If Blizzard is either hosted on ATTW, or their hosting provider only has upstream transit from ATTW, then you have to go through ATTW.

A friend on the server is with Roadrunner, his last hop is "in-addr.arpa [12.130.0.174]" (even though he first goes thru a few att hops) and his in-game latency is fine.
Hop 'in-addr.arpa [12.130.0.174]' is an AT&T IP address (ATTW owns the entire Class A: 12.0.0.0 subnet 255.0.0.0). An ARIN 'whois' lookup shows that IP address on a 'SWIP' assignment to an outfit called, "CERFnet"; which means that CERFnet is paying for a block of IP addresses from AT&T:
Your trace routes to the Boston WoW server are on SWIP to Blizzard Entertainment from CERFnet:

I have traced route to WoW login servers in Southern California, which are ultimately hosted on AT&T; either "Worldnet Services", or just plain "Services" (I don't recall if the destination was ATTW, or ATTS).

My best guess is that Blizzard Entertainment is AT&T's customer (either directly, or through CERFnet), and they would have the best handle on how to improve the situation. Assuming they don't play the finger pointing game, and lay the blame on the residential networks you are using to get onto the Internet.

P.S. FYI, AT&T is a very large corporation, which was bought by SBC in 2006. After which, SBC changed their corporate ID from, "SBC", to, "AT&T". There are several operating divisions. Nearly as I can tell, they sell commercial hosting through, "AT&T Services". They provide national transit backbone service through, "AT&T Worldnet Services". The parent corporation, which used to be SBC, sells residential transit through, "AT&T Internet Services". And, since 2007, when AT&T bought Bellsouth, also residential transit through 'bellsouth.net' routers. Being a customer of "AT&T FastAcces DSL" service does not make you a customer of "AT&T Worldnet Services", or of "AT&T Services".

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22491206 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:34:18 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22490871 dietro : First of all Norman, I've not pointed a finger at anyone. I'm asking for help (not condescension).

Secondly, I'm sure you're right that the issue is out of my control. But since I cant stand playing world of lagcraft I have alot of time on my hands to post these threads on any forum I can find.

Couple questions for you:

1. Is there no way that I can contact ATTW?
2. Is blizzard connected thru DSL? and if so are they interleaved also?
3. Is there absolutely no way that I can be routed around those particular ATTW routers?

A friend on the server is with Roadrunner, his last hop is "in-addr.arpa [12.130.0.174]" (even though he first goes thru a few att hops) and his in-game latency is fine.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22490871 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:38:45 EDT Re: High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22490069 NormanS : Boy, you are in every possible forum, aren't you?

Bellsouth trace:

Interleaved path latency to the last Bellsouth hop, then double the latency on the AT&T Worldnet Services hop while still in Florida.

Comcast trace:

Good cable latency on the 'ibone' transit network to Dallas, Texas, then handoff to Teleglobe transit for transfer to AT&T Worldnet Services transit. Beginning with the first ATTW hop ('cr2.dlstx.ip.att.net'), latency goes up againe.

Everything is pointing to issues with the ATTW transit network. This is beyond your control; though you actually have a better route to Boston through Bellsouth than through Comcast.

WoW is a Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. product, yes? They announce a route in BGP which takes you through the ATTW transit network. Even I get routed through ATTW when I check their West Coast servers. Don't try to fix a problem which you can't control. Don't try to point fingers at providers who aren't in control (Bellsouth, Comcast). This is between Blizzard and ATTW.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22490069 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:43:30 EDT High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22487745 dietro : High Latency in WoW, North Florida to Boston

I live on the east coast and play on an east coast server. When I first transfered there my in game latency was showing under 40ms. For some reason now I'm getting much higher latency, 300ms+

I'm experiencing this with both Comcast cable and Bellsouth DSL. I have both at the moment while I try and resolve the issue.

Here is a tracert with Bellsouth

Tracing route to 206.17.111.6 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 26 ms 26 ms 26 ms 68.152.180.4
3 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms 68.152.250.213
4 33 ms 33 ms 32 ms ixc01jax-ge-1-0-7.bellsouth.net [205.152.70.146]
5 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms ixc00mia-pos-5-0.bellsouth.net [65.83.237.11]
6 33 ms 32 ms 33 ms axr01msy-so-7-3-0.bellsouth.net [65.83.237.18]
7 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms 65.83.236.116
8 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms 65.83.238.186
9 74 ms 73 ms 73 ms cr2.ormfl.ip.att.net [12.122.143.134]
10 73 ms 73 ms 73 ms cr1.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.5.142]
11 73 ms 72 ms 72 ms cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.1.174]
12 73 ms 72 ms 73 ms cr2.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.3.37]
13 73 ms 73 ms 72 ms cr1.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.31.126]
14 73 ms 72 ms 73 ms gar5.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.145.29]
15 72 ms 72 ms 72 ms 12-122-254-14.attens.net [12.122.254.14]
16 73 ms 73 ms 74 ms mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.bos1.attens.net [12.130.0.170]
17 * * * Request timed out.

And here is a traceroute with Comcast

Tracing route to 206.17.111.6 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 6 ms 7 ms 8 ms te-9-2-sr02.southside.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.86.171.197]
3 7 ms 6 ms 9 ms te-1-1-sr01.southside.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.86.168.245]
4 8 ms 6 ms 7 ms te-7-4-ar01.southsiderdc.fl.jacksvil.comcast.net [68.86.168.113]
5 16 ms 18 ms 14 ms te-0-2-0-5-ar03.pompanobeach.fl.pompano.comcast.net [68.85.229.229]
6 14 ms 14 ms 17 ms pos-0-7-0-0-ar03.northdade.fl.pompano.comcast.net [68.86.164.5]
7 15 ms 18 ms 16 ms pos-0-5-0-0-cr01.miami.fl.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.91.81]
8 31 ms 31 ms 30 ms pos-2-3-0-0-cr01.atlanta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.193]
9 51 ms 51 ms 58 ms pos-1-11-0-0-cr01.dallas.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.221]
10 55 ms 53 ms 53 ms a190103.sandpiper.net [206.82.142.5]
11 59 ms 51 ms 56 ms Vlan6.icore1.DTX-Dallas.as6453.net [209.58.47.13]
12 52 ms 52 ms 52 ms 192.205.35.57
13 78 ms 81 ms 79 ms cr2.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.138.114]
14 81 ms 82 ms 79 ms cr1.attga.ip.att.net [12.122.28.173]
15 80 ms 78 ms 79 ms cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.1.174]
16 80 ms 80 ms 78 ms cr2.n54ny.ip.att.net [12.122.3.37]
17 83 ms 78 ms 78 ms cr1.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.31.126]
18 84 ms 81 ms 78 ms gar5.cb1ma.ip.att.net [12.122.145.33]
19 130 ms 199 ms 206 ms 12-122-254-14.attens.net [12.122.254.14]
20 100 ms 79 ms 78 ms mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.bos1.attens.net [12.130.0.170]
21 * * * Request timed out.

I've really gone out of my way to try every concievable thing on my end. If you'd like more info on steps that I've taken you can have a look in this thread.

»forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa···77&sid=1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,22487745 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:23:39 EDT