 MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA | Effin ponderous I still find it amazing that you can own a concept rather than the method used to execute it.
Why isn't there one person who owns a patent on the idea of a word processor? The web browser? A cigarette lighter? You could go on all day with examples. How about just the idea of software as a whole -- the first written program should have given full control of future computing to that one person.
It's perfectly fine to have exclusive rights to a design -- a specific windproof lighter for example. It's entirely another matter to stake a claim to every possible way -- known now and developed in the future -- to make a lighter that isn't affected by wind.
It's also silly to be able to patent a specific feature of a product. Using existing logic, the first automaker that offered heated seats should sue any other company that added it to their model afterwards. Did Lexus' adaptive headlights violate a Tucker patent?
Where there's money, there's litigation.
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John M - Cranky network guy |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Part of the problem with our patent laws.
You can patent a concept. Doesn't matter the implementation, you own it. Yes, it's silly.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| reply to MooJohn
said by MooJohn:I still find it amazing that you can own a concept rather than the method used to execute it. What's the different between the two? |
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 BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000
1 edit | reply to KrK
You shouldn't be able to patent a concept unless accompanied by a fully functioning product and intent to distribute or license. And then it's the process, not concept that would be patented.
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POKE 65495,1 |
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BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | reply to cdru
The difference would be saying you are going to patent "voice control" vs how your implementation of such a voice control actually functions in great detail.
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POKE 65495,1 |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to cdru
said by cdru:said by MooJohn:I still find it amazing that you can own a concept rather than the method used to execute it. What's the different between the two? That's a good question. About the best way I can explain it is a method is the technique used to accomplish a task, while a concept is the task itself. If you my drift.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Bit
That's the general idea, but in recent times, so called "look and feel" etc have expanded the definitions of patented and infringement.
These days, someone could patent a process that achieves a result, and someone else could develop all their own code to achieve a similar result and the 2nd person would still be considered in violation.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to KrK
said by KrK:Part of the problem with our patent laws. You can patent a concept. Doesn't matter the implementation, you own it. Yes, it's silly. I agree that these patents on ideas rather than physical processes are beyond stupid. I'd love to see it changed. Until that day, I want everyone to play by the same rules.
As long as TiVo has the patents they have (some of their patents were invalidated in part or in whole during the review process begun at Echostar's behest, the remainder are what are at issue here), Echostar needs to license them.
Thinking the system is wrong is no excuse for not playing by the rules. It's a perfectly good reason to make a strong effort to have the law changed.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Well, obviously, if you lose a suit you shouldn't of had to fight, you will have to play by the rules.
Of course they'll get massively bent over. It will be so expensive it will lead to price increases for sure.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| said by KrK:Well, obviously, if you lose a suit you shouldn't of had to fight, you will have to play by the rules. Of course they'll get massively bent over. It will be so expensive it will lead to price increases for sure. Ah, I see. Your talk about fairness is really about you being a Dish subscriber who doesn't want to be made to pay for Echostar's misdeeds. There's an easy way to prevent that, you know. Switch to DirecTV or Cox.
Personally, I'd be more upset that my provider had been misappropriating the IP of others and not compensating them while not charging commensurately less for the service for all these years.
That said, I agree that the patent system in our country specifically and around the world in general is very broken. However, TiVo is not the source of such brokenness, nor are they by any means even an egregious offender.
Those calling them patent trolls do a disservice to those threatened by real patent trolls who have no product, no plan to ever have a product, and whose only purpose is to collect licensing fees from everyone they possibly can. TiVo has a product that they sell, parts of which are protected by patents that have survived repeated review by both the courts and the USPTO, and is suffering concrete harm by competitors misappropriating their IP. Basically, they are being harmed in exactly the way the patent system is designed to prevent. Whether patents of the type they hold should even exist is something we as a society have not reached consensus on.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
1 edit | said by wierdo:Ah, I see. Your talk about fairness is really about you being a Dish subscriber who doesn't want to be made to pay for Echostar's misdeeds. Nice try, but fail. No, it's about justice, and knowing right from wrong. Tivo's patents are wrong, and so the judgement against Echostar is an injustice, and that's that. You can take all your Fanboi BS and shove it.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·T-Mobile US
| said by KrK:said by wierdo:Ah, I see. Your talk about fairness is really about you being a Dish subscriber who doesn't want to be made to pay for Echostar's misdeeds. Nice try, but fail. No, it's about justice, and knowing right from wrong. Tivo's patents are wrong, and so the judgement against Echostar is an injustice, and that's that. You can take all your Fanboi BS and shove it. How can you possibly muster so much anger if you don't have skin in the game? Perhaps you are one of the numerous Dish employees here in Tulsa.
Justice and fairness are not equivalent. Ideally they should be, but they are not. It is only fair that everyone play by the same rules so long as those are the rules we as a society have created.
That you or I think those rules are misguided isn't really relevant. As I said before, I think the patent system is broken. I haven't read TiVo's patents or the prior art closely enough to have an opinion on whether they should or should not have been granted under the current rules or under what I would consider an ideal system. Therefore I must rely upon the USPTO and the judges who have reviewed the patents and found them compliant with the rules as they stand, even after repeated reviews at Echostar's behest.
In my experience, while USPTO examiners may screw up the initial exam pretty badly on a semi-regular basis, especially when it comes to patents related to technology or software, subsequent reviews are generally more fair. If you don't recall, several of TiVo's patents were invalidated in whole or in part during the process.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word. |
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