Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | reply to Bit
Re: I saw these at Compuplus last week
They can't justify it. |
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limegrass69
join:2008-05-28
Cross River, NY
 ·Cablevision
| said by Anonymous  :They can't justify it. They don't need to justify it. You need to justify it to yourself. If you can't, then stay with the standard or Boost tiers. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
 ·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Their marketing department is selling a tier their network can't really support, thus they have to price it so high that few would sign up. The insane activation gouge will stop a lot of people from signing up while still allowing their marketing department to splash nations fastest internet service, 101Mb for only $99 advertising all over the place.
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| reply to limegrass69
said by limegrass69 :said by Anonymous :They can't justify it. They don't need to justify it. You need to justify it to yourself. If you can't, then stay with the standard or Boost tiers. Well, things could be worse.. they could raise the price of broadband durring the peak season + holidays (March - October, December) the same way they do with gasoline... thats IF $1 a gigabyte for overages isn't enough... /sarcasm
WHAT?!? Why give a greedy industry new ideas to screw over the consumer... I'm just saying if you keep paying the higher prices... eventually you'll get so used to it.. you'll learn to perpetually live in debt they same way the government does.
At which point, can you really have faith in the monetary system?
While we're at it... call & cancel your cable-tv subscription please. Tell 'em Tmc8080 sent you, courtesy of the Comcast & Time Warner price experimentation thread. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to Anonymous
said by Anonymous :They can't justify it. They can charge whatever they want, $300 is very reasonable. You want 2*T3 speeds for free? prepare to sell all your family's cars for the installation cost for 2 T3s. |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to tmc8080
said by tmc8080 :Well, things could be worse.. they could raise the price of broadband durring the peak season + holidays (March - October, December) the same way they do with gasoline... thats IF $1 a gigabyte for overages isn't enough... /sarcasm Why would march-oct be peak? Wouldn't the low daylight winter months have more data usage? |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
| said by patcat88 :Why would march-oct be peak? Wouldn't the low daylight winter months have more data usage? Gak!!! Shades of the old Compuserve twice a year slowdowns. One in September when all colleges started up and a much worse one in January two weeks after Christmas when people figured out how to get their modems from Christmas working. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
| reply to patcat88
$300 is a rip off and totally unjustified. They are only charging it because their network won't support any decent number of users on that tier.
However in true fraudulent fashion they must be able to promote the misleading $99 advertising.
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| reply to travelguy
said by travelguy :said by patcat88 :Why would march-oct be peak? Wouldn't the low daylight winter months have more data usage? Gak!!! Shades of the old Compuserve twice a year slowdowns. One in September when all colleges started up and a much worse one in January two weeks after Christmas when people figured out how to get their modems from Christmas working. Don't you mean Compu$erve?
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee |
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dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to Bit
said by Bit :$300 is a rip off and totally unjustified. They are only charging it because their network won't support any decent number of users on that tier. However in true fraudulent fashion they must be able to promote the misleading $99 advertising. Oh, I didn't know Laguna Hills was a Cablevision territory.
Right, it isn't. If you don't have the service, you have absolutely no right to call it a rip off, fraudulent, or misleading. What do you know about their network? Nothing. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
3 edits | Of course I can call it a rip off. I don't have to not be offered a rip off to recognize it as a rip off.
You can kiss their ass all you want, but it's absolutely a rip off designed to keep people from signing up while letting the marketing department advertising the $99 price point.
There is ZERO justification for the insane "activation" bullcrap other than this.
And I know enough about DOCSIS 3 to know that it can't support even a moderate number of 100Mb users...PERIOD. Even FiOS with GPON, 3X the capacity of DOCSIS 3 divided by only a small fraction of users compared to CV would have trouble delivering 100Mb service to a large number of users. It's not rocket science, it's basic math.
To the fools out there who haven't realized it yet, this is a marketing gimmick that CV hopes no one signs up for and to help make that happen they charge the bogus $300 "activation" fee.
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dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Bit :Of course I can call it a rip off. I don't have to not be offered a rip off to recognize it as a rip off. You can kiss their ass all you want, but it's absolutely a rip off designed to keep people from signing up while letting the marketing department advertising the $99 price point. There is ZERO justification for the insane "activation" bullcrap other than this. And I know enough about DOCSIS 3 to know that it can't support even a moderate number of 100Mb users...PERIOD. Even FiOS with GPON, 3X the capacity of DOCSIS 3 divided by only a small fraction of users compared to CV would have trouble delivering 100Mb service to a large number of users. It's not rocket science, it's basic math. To the fools out there who haven't realized it yet, this is a marketing gimmick that CV hopes no one signs up for and to help make that happen they charge the bogus $300 "activation" fee. For all you know (because you don't live here), they only allow one DOCSIS 3 user per node.
But you don't know, because you're not here. You're on the other side of the country.
Cablevision has proven themselves to be competitive. They are in the wealthiest territory in the US, and play hardball.
I'm not kissing anyone's ass - I have CV's Internet service, but DirecTV's television service. I don't think everything they do is perfect (not a fan of their TV service), but what I do know is that my BOOST service (30 down / 5 up) works perfectly, at full speed, and the few times I've had an issue, they've been resolved /same day/. That's the same service that was called a gimmick, unsustainable and all that when it came out too.
You can't say that because you're 3,000 miles away. Stick to what you know - Cablevision's operating model isn't it. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | No genius, I know the capacity of DOCSIS 3 and know that CV will never allocate enough channel space to support a lot of 100Mb bonded users.
I don't have to be on the moon to know it isn't made of cheese.
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dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Bit :No genius, I know the capacity of DOCSIS 3 and know that CV will never allocate enough channel space to support a lot of 100Mb bonded users. Same argument as when BOOST was introduced. It was wrong then, and wrong now.
Just that you know how DOCSIS works, doesn't mean you know their specific bandwidth allocation plans.
I love it when idiots 3,000 miles away pretend to know how someone else's network functions. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
4 edits | Yeah and the same limitations that force cable operators to use powerboost gimmicks to deliver 30Mb service because DOCSIS 1 and 2 topology won't support lot of simultaneous 30Mb subscribers is the same reason DOCSIS 3 can't support lots of 100Mb users.
And even with providers like CV who advertise continuous DOCSIS 1.1+ 30Mb service, can't deliver it to all their BOOST users all the time, their actual throughput depends on other local user traffic. BOOST is simply uncapped service and 30-33Mb is all one can reasonably expect from a DOCSIS channel. All DOCSIS 3 does is permit channel bonding, it does nothing to alleviate the actual per channel capacity bottleneck currently granted under DOCSIS 2 nor does it increase nodal capacity. This isn't a "this Cali guy doesn't like CV" thing...this is a simple DOCSIS math thing.
If Cablevision was dedicating enough 6MHz channels to HSI everyone would be seeing their tiered caps all the time and they don't.
You should read a bit about how DOCSIS works before touting cablevision 100Mb greatness. Whether next door or 3000 miles away, the challenges facing cablevision and other DOCSIS 3 operators is the same. The pre-cert DOCSIS 3 spec doesn't change with geography genius and there are only so many channels they can dedicate to HSI.
They can not support a lot of users on this tier, period. That is why they're charging a cost prohibitive activation fee, so that few if any sign up while allowing them to put up the "fastest broadband in America for $99" posters.
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dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Bit :Yeah and the same limitations that force cable operators to use powerboost gimmicks to deliver 30Mb service because DOCSIS 1 and 2 topology won't support lot of simultaneous 30Mb subscribers is the same reason DOCSIS 3 can't support lots of 100Mb users. See, that's where the distance thing comes in ... Cablevision *has no* powerboost "gimmicks"... Their infrastructure does support their 30mbps tier.
Are there issues? Of course. There were some significant ones during the DOCSIS 3 prepwork. It's not due to a poor network or overzealous sales, but just an issue that cropped up. It's been solved.
9/10ths of the issues people have with BOOST are due to bad cabling, splitters, etc.
It's NOT a bandwidth issue. It's NOT a capacity bottleneck.
It's all in the network design. CV has some of the most significant backbone capacity anywhere. Last-mile stuff (node-to-house) can be taken care of with node splits and additional equipment. It can be (and is) done every day.
If you're active in network management and do it well, you can absolutely support quite a few DOCSIS 3 users in a particular area.
It's not easy, and it doesn't happen by magic. But it CAN be done, and I have confidence that if anyone can pull it off, it'll be CV. |
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Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
·Cox HSI
2 edits | Sorry, read it again, I didn't say Cablevision used powerboost, I was speaking directly to DOCSIS channel capacity limitations which like all cable operators do, Cablevision certainly has.
Again, you need to understand how cable topology works. Cable's bottlenecks are rarely if ever backbone connectivity. Is it nearly always nodal capacity issues where you have a lot of users sharing channel capacity in the last mile.
DOCSIS 3 does not increase channel capacity nor does it increase the overall number of 6MHz channels (out of the 750MHz or if upgraded like Cox is trying to do, 1GHz) CV dedicates to HSI. It merely allows cable to bond existing channels together so that they can deliver more than 38Mb to an individual user who before DOCSIS 3 could only use 1 channel (which is why Boost is 30Mb, cause that is about the max you typically see from an unused channel).
It is still the same shared topology where you have a limited number of 6MHz channels being shared by hundreds of users. And to be clear, the "node" isn't the bottleneck, it is how many channels the cable operator dedicates to HSI and with 100Mb service taking nearly 3 channels of bandwidth for a single user, it is obvious to ANYONE that a cable provider can't support a more than just a couple of local 100Mb users on a node. There just isn't that much available bandwidth. Cable HSI capacity can be improved by SDV, ditching analog, moving from 750Mhz to 1GHz, with the freed capacity going to additional HSI channels. But that can only go so far, especially with these operators adding HD networks and HD PPV offerings hand over fist. A 6MHz channel can carry an analog video channel, 6-10 digital SD channels, or 2-3 HD channels. That is valuable real estate. Cable offers a lot of video and streaming (on demand) content in this limited spectrum, not allowing them to just give HSI all they want. To even begin supporting 100Mb they would need to completely ditch analog video and put that capacity to HSI.
And 100Mb isn't difficult for just cable. GPON offers Verizon 3X DOCSIS 3 bonded capacity and is shared by only a small fraction of users (homes 32-64 homes, even fewer subscribers), and they couldn't support 100Mb service to a more than a couple of local users at a time.
Cablevision MUST have a way of insuring that only a very tiny fraction of users go for this 100Mb deal and their solution is the bullcrap activation fee. It accomplishes 2 things, first to dissuade people from signing up. Second it allows their marketing department to splash $99 all over the place.
You, I suppose think they could support lots of users buying this tier but we will never know because they instituted a pricing policy that insures that very few will bite.
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