Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
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| reply to KrK
Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
said by KrK  :Nonsense. Another Tivo Fanboi.... or one of those Dish haters. I still own my ReplayTV and showstopper, and am very familar with the details of these cases and DVR patents. Tivo is acting like another Rambus. That doesn't matter.
They own the patents so they can make the profit.
Don't like it, go invent your own technology. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| said by Eat Me :Don't like it, go invent your own technology. That's the problem. Instead of patenting the method, they have patents on the concepts or very ideas.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Bit
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| reply to Eat Me
I'll invent a device that records desired shows by voice. I don't actually have to figure out how the whole voice recognition things works or anything. I'll wait for a REAL company to work that out, let them deploy it for a few years, then sue them for patent infringement.
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
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1 edit | reply to KrK
said by KrK :Instead of patenting the method, they have patents on the concepts or very ideas. Incorrect. You seem to need to read up on what you're talking about before you post.
said by KrK :But that doesn't mean it's a just ruling. It's just a legal one. The perfect rationalization for whatever you want to be right is to just say that your way is the only "just" way. How incredibly self-serving. And utterly ridiculous. |
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KrK
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| Oh FFS. Whatever, your agenda is right, blah blah.
Simple fact: Echostar didn't steal Tivo's code, period.
The Tivo patent is based on pre-existing work.
There were other DVR's besides Tivo's in development, including Echostar's concurrently
IMHO the patent shouldn't be granted in the first place, but it was, so it's a moot point.... but I'll be damned if I let myths and lies slide by as if they were historical fact.
It doesn't affect the outcome, but the outcome is just as unjust now as it was then. Believe what you wish, but pardon me for not supporting an injustice when I see it.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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Bit
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4 edits | reply to bicker
You should actually bother to read some of TiVo's patents, like their TV viewer interface patent 6757906 which is absolutely prior art (EPG 4751578 from 1985). TiVo in their patent laid claim to on screen guides, searching, selection and control, all of which are patented prior art. TiVo ads some background animation to the EPG patent and claimed it as their own and the PTO bought it hook line and sinker. A "more/next" arrow, what an innovation...never saw one of those before 1997. Gemstar (formerly Starsight) has similar patents from 1995 for interactive on screen menuing including scrolling and searching based on program characteristics, etc. They also had PiP and contextual linking within the guide. Hell the 1994-1995 Samsung Starsight enabled VCR could do most of what TiVo shows in their GUI patent.
Same goes for simultaneous recording and playback, TiVo didn't invent it.
TiVo didn't invent crap and the PTO screwed up granting patents for prior art as they frequently do.
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pandora
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|  reply to Bit
Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
OK,
I believe you. Why didn't Charlie bring this stuff up in court? 200 million dollars is going to hurt Dish, but its really going to hurt Dish customers who eventually have to pay it.
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
| reply to Bit
said by Bit :You should actually bother to read some of TiVo's patents, like their TV viewer interface patent 6757906 which is absolutely prior art (EPG 4751578 from 1985). TiVo in their patent laid claim to on screen guides, searching, selection and control, all of which are patented prior art. TiVo ads some background animation to the EPG patent and claimed it as their own and the PTO bought it hook line and sinker. A "more/next" arrow, what an innovation...never saw one of those before 1997. Gemstar (formerly Starsight) has similar patents from 1995 for interactive on screen menuing including scrolling and searching based on program characteristics, etc. They also had PiP and contextual linking within the guide. Hell the 1994-1995 Samsung Starsight enabled VCR could do most of what TiVo shows in their GUI patent. Same goes for simultaneous recording and playback, TiVo didn't invent it. TiVo didn't invent crap and the PTO screwed up granting patents for prior art as they frequently do. ... and TiVo had to strike a deal with Gemstar aka TV Guide Inc. (who has that AMAZING patent for using a spreadsheet to view TV shows  ). Gemstar had the patent, and TiVo had to concede. This is the way it works. |
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
| reply to pandora
said by pandora :OK, I believe you. Why didn't Charlie bring this stuff up in court? 200 million dollars is going to hurt Dish, but its really going to hurt Dish customers who eventually have to pay it. I believe that "Charlie's" lawyers used every tactic available to them, including ignoring a ruling by the judge, but still lost.
When you run your business by stealing copying intimidating throwing around your weight, and the little guy just happens kick your ass anyway, you have to pay the price.
Unfortunately, this may affect Dish customers, but it certainly won't impact Charles "Charlie" Ergen "...the 89th richest person in the world with a net worth of $9.1 Billion." |
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Bit
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3 edits | reply to pandora
Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
Because our patent system is a joke and allows someone who adds background animation to obvious prior art to get a patent on it. Just ask IBM who was granted a scroll bar patent in 1995, when virually every GUI had already long had it including Windows 3.x
Then you have it tried in front of a bunch of postal workers who haven't a clue as to what they are hearing. They just think that TiVo was the first DVR and switch everything else off. "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit".
The PO is reexamining yet again whether TiVo's patents are valid, but getting the organization who screwed up in the first place to admit that after all this money was spend in litigation that they screwed up won't be easy.
Plain and simple, TiVo did not invent the DVR nor did they invent anything in it including the GUI, content linking, simultaneous recording and playback, none of it. They didn't even invent picking an onscreen program to record. They weren't even first to market. Even if they managed to be the first to get a patent on it, that just leaves us with a users keepers losers weepers system that decimates innovation and rewards thieves who exploit the real patented work of others. Our patent system is a joke and then relies on idiot jurors who make sense of it. That is a recipie for epic fail.
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Bit
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join:2009-02-19
00000 | reply to DCIFRTHS
No, then they would have merely paid licensing fees or purchased Gemstar's patent, not have been granted a new patent with a new number for the exact same thing.
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
| said by Bit :No, then they would have merely paid licensing fees or purchased Gemstar's patent, not have been granted a new patent with a new number for the exact same thing. That's what I said.
I'm not sure where I posted that TiVo was issued a new patent for the TV Guide Spreadsheet. If I did, I was wrong. Please quote me, so I can correct it. |
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Bit
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1 edit | I said they got a new patent (vs licensing) for their guide. It was a good chunk of their "interface" patent 6757906.
Lots of the elements TiVo was granted a patent for in their interface patent were all prior art, previously patented by Gemstar or even the 1985 EPG patent and I'm sure many others.
And this wouldn't be the first time the PO handed out a patent on prior art as IBM got one for the scroll bar in 1995 when obvious to everyone, the scroll bar had long existed, including in Windows 3.1.
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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| reply to Bit
Re: TiVo gains second judgment against Echostar
Stop trying to confuse him with the truth. He's either a Dish hater, or a Tivo fanboi, or both. He doesn't care about the injustice, he just likes the result.
"Dish copied Tivo". What a joke.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to DCIFRTHS
Explain your excessive fascination with Ergen. You certainly seem to hate the man with a passion. |
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DCIFRTHS
join:2000-02-18
Hartsdale, NY
1 edit | reply to Bit
Deleted. |
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