Topic 'haha' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/haha-22502171 en Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:10:16 EDT Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:10:16 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22514321 said by cwh:

I would assume today the inverse is happening. The 2nd line is going away and probably very rapidly and those 2nd lines are still in there.
Good point. Had forgotten Telcos are Hemorrhaging land line customers.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22514321 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 08:54:51 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22513926 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22513926 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 05:21:21 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22512380 said by openbox9:

I assume that you've spoken to tech support about the stuttering?
LOL! 5 times. "There are no problems with this wonderful service."

This is the third DVR box I have had in 6 months. It's a pain to have to add in all of the programs for recording too. You can do it on the web interfave, but if you get a new box, all of that goes away. *sigh* I want to like the service...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22512380 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:54:39 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510827 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510827 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:52:07 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510407 said by tschmidt:

said by Ark:

Perhaps if you are far from the VRAD, and there are still some of those little cross-connect boxes in the path, your 2nd/3rd pair don't make it all the way back to the VRAD, but around here, they seem to put a VRAD right next to every cross-connect box.
The problem is feeder cable size from cross connect box to customer. The whole ideal of using FTTC VRADs is to eliminate need to run fiber all the way to the customer. If they run out of copper pair and need to install more economic model falls apart.

This happened once before during the heyday of dialup modems. Lots of hard core data users opted for second phone line - causing local copper shortages in many locations.

/tom
And I would assume today the inverse is happening. The 2nd line is going away and probably very rapidly and those 2nd lines are still in there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510407 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:48:45 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510394 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510394 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 10:43:55 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510014 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22510014 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:32:41 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509794 said by OSUGoose:

I just taked to a buddy i have at T and theres an area they has gotten the copper stolen so many times, they even hired security guards to atch that section, the thiefs waited out the guards aftera month, and stole it again. AT&T finaly decided to put the wire in conduit. at the tune of $10,000 dollars.
Um, how do you steal copper off poles without the neighbors' cooperation? Where do you get a cherry picker? Or nobody notices there is no utility company name on the side of your cherry picker?

I think it would be pretty easy for the cops to look up through the DMV every cherry picker owned by a small business or private individual in a 50 mile radius. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509794 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:10:43 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509787 said by tschmidt:

Pair bonding assumes outside plant has multiple pairs per customer. If it doesn't then AT&T will need to add more copper or build out fiber.

I am no expert but I assume existing telephone outside plant was not built to provide 2 or 3 pairs per customer.

Seems like an expensive stop gap measure to me.

/tom
Remember alot of customers are switching to Cable VOIP or VOIP over cable internet. Alot of people are/have cancelled their dialup modem line or their fax line or their landline (cell household). Thats alot of freed up pairs. On poles, I've seen 125 pairs feeding 50 houses. Even assuming dead pairs, thats still 2 per house, and not all houses use 2 or even 1.

Edit: When Ma Bell installed the Feeders, it did so with the idea that they will be able to sell a pair for the slightest reason. Want an alarm? thats another line. Want an emergency help pendent? thats another line. Want an intercom in your house? thats stations*lines. Want a videophone? thats 10 lines or more for analog video over POTS. Want stock prices at your home? thats another line. Want an alarm when someone is breaking into your business? thats another line (remember all equipment attached to the network was owned by Ma Bell, the idea of a private company connecting their alarm system to Ma Bell without a business/marketing agreement was unheard of, so a call center couldn't call you on your house line, since it would violate the tariff the alarm company signed with Ma Bell). Regarding businesses, anyone remember Centrex? No PBX for you, each phone in the office, plus all of its lines, is backhauled to the CO to emulate a PBX. 600 pair trunk to a 40000 sq ft office building. Thats 1 pair for every 66 sq ft, or a 8x8 ft area, hallway, bathroom, break room, file room, waiting room, lobby, included. Thats a whole lot of phone lines being used.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509787 Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:05:47 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509293 --
Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste
My Location: /universe/earth/north-america/USA- fsck that!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22509293 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:49:23 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508488 said by openbox9:

I would guess that most house built in the last 30 years would have at least two pair ran to them.
Need to make a distinction between customer drop cable and feeder cable. You are correct drop cable is typically 2-pair if aerial, more if underground. For example when we built our home phone company provided 5-pair direct burial cable.

Customer drop is not the problem, it is relatively cheap and fast to add more pairs if needed. The economic problem is size of the feeder cable running down the street. That is much more expensive to upgrade.

/tom ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508488 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:50:28 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508413 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508413 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:26:32 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508389 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508389 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:17:07 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508368 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508368 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:12:31 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508341 said by Ark:

Perhaps if you are far from the VRAD, and there are still some of those little cross-connect boxes in the path, your 2nd/3rd pair don't make it all the way back to the VRAD, but around here, they seem to put a VRAD right next to every cross-connect box.
The problem is feeder cable size from cross connect box to customer. The whole ideal of using FTTC VRADs is to eliminate need to run fiber all the way to the customer. If they run out of copper pair and need to install more economic model falls apart.

This happened once before during the heyday of dialup modems. Lots of hard core data users opted for second phone line - causing local copper shortages in many locations.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508341 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:05:49 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508231 said by openbox9:

Copper can work just fine. Fiber isn't the be all and end all.
"Fine" is a stretch, especially with all the aging copper out there (my dirty line can barely sustain a 6MB down sync). Fiber is the best wired transmission medium moving forward. The sooner AT&T realizes this, the better off we'll all be. The time for half-measures is over.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508231 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:28:37 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508156
T needs to start now running the fiber while labor's cheep and possably materials as well, before inflation hits. They gotta start eventually, the longer the wait the more expensive its gonna get when the enonomy rebounds and labor isent as cheep, and there still subs to hold on to.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508156 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:06:57 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508128 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22508128 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 17:58:53 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22507812 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22507812 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:16:39 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22507430 said by tschmidt:

said by openbox9:

apparently the pair bonding isn't coming through as easily/quickly as they expected.
Pair bonding assumes outside plant has multiple pairs per customer. If it doesn't then AT&T will need to add more copper or build out fiber.

Seems like an expensive stop gap measure to me.

/tom
You guys think it's so easy to use existing Copper, and evidently the BellHeads at AT&T did too. Maybe 10 years ago the existing Copper Plant was good enough for VDSL U-Verse, but this old Copper won't work and AT&T knows it has to replace it or change to Fiber. Changing to Fiber is not that easy, the Electronics has to change too. Those AT&T BellHeads can't do anything fast, so U-Verse is at a stand still.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22507430 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 14:19:06 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506714 Most houses I've seen seem to have 3 pairs running into the NID. This lets people order up to 3 regular old phone lines back in the day, without having to run new wires to their house. You just open up the NID and map pair 2 and 3 to other jacks.
At 2100ft, my Max sync according to the logs is between 49M and 53M down and 2M up. Currently I only sync at 25M/2M and can only use 18M/1.5M because that is the profile I'm on.
With pair bonding, I assume it would be easy to sync at 100M down, with nothing more than a RG swap-out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506714 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:21:16 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506338 said by openbox9:

apparently the pair bonding isn't coming through as easily/quickly as they expected.
Pair bonding assumes outside plant has multiple pairs per customer. If it doesn't then AT&T will need to add more copper or build out fiber.

I am no expert but I assume existing telephone outside plant was not built to provide 2 or 3 pairs per customer.

Seems like an expensive stop gap measure to me.

/tom]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506338 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 09:26:49 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506321 said by openbox9:

Copper can work just fine. Fiber isn't the be all and end all.
True, but the bandwidth limits of fiber are only hobbled, at this time, by the electronics on either end. Various physical laws make pushing extremely high speeds over long distance runs of unshielded twisted pair virtually impossible. You can at this moment easily push a 10GB data stream over a 10km fiber run. You cannot do the same with UTP.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506321 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 09:18:01 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506237 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506237 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:47:44 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506192 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506192 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:28:32 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506170 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506170 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:22:08 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506152 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506152 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:14:29 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506148 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506148 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:11:06 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506139 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506139 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:08:33 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506111 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506111 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:01:20 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506107 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22506107 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:00:04 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22505566 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22505566 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 01:33:49 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22505470 said by openbox9:

What if you don't have 4 televisions and/or don't watch that much TV? Everything is relative. U-verse will work fine for some while others will prefer cable. Personally, if AT&T has turned up U-verse in my area, I would have tried the service.
I have it. I just love the uverse "stutter" that happens all of the time when watching tv. I'm only using 1 tv and it still stutters every day. It's an ok service, but overpriced.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22505470 Sat, 06 Jun 2009 01:01:00 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504729 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504729 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:50:19 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504715 said by sterneriot :

said by Doctor Four:

I'd rather have U-Verse 12M/1.5M Max tier and the U200 package than Time Warner any day. More channels for a lower price and a much more reliable Internet connection.

At least from what my experience has been with both companies.
doctor four, try watching hdtv on 4 tv's and surfing on web on uverse. cant do it can you? u can on cable tv.
and on direct tv from ATT.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504715 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 21:48:03 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504387 said by openbox9:

What if you don't have 4 televisions and/or don't watch that much TV? Everything is relative.
That is true for individual customers.

But one would think a company spending billions of dollars to roll out next generation services would design a system with more headroom and future capacity.

/tom ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22504387 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:44:11 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22503944 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22503944 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:14:22 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22503672 said by Doctor Four:

I'd rather have U-Verse 12M/1.5M Max tier and the U200 package than Time Warner any day. More channels for a lower price and a much more reliable Internet connection.

At least from what my experience has been with both companies.
doctor four, try watching hdtv on 4 tv's and surfing on web on uverse. cant do it can you? u can on cable tv.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22503672 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:14:52 EDT Re: haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22502581
At least from what my experience has been with both companies.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-haha-22502581 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:19:35 EDT haha http://www.dslreports.com/forum/haha-22502171 at least verizon is doing it right.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/haha-22502171 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:23:54 EDT