Topic 'Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22515894 en Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:51:53 EDT Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:51:53 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22536789
Oh and as for your Rush Limbaugh talking points, it's just FUD as usual.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22536789 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:44:23 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22533267 --
POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22533267 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:17:42 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22532849
You are a better person than I am.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22532849 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:58:03 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22532844 said by KrK:

You're the one dishing out the crap. You prove it. Sounds like you're the hater to me. LOL.

And again, you show that "hate" only goes one way. You people never condemn those on your side who make the same type of glaring generalities.

But as for proof, let's see... record deficit spending, at a clip far more than what exceeded that of the last administration, check. Bringing dangerous Club Gitmo detainees to the USA for trial, where they could potentially be released if acquitted, check. Granting Miranda "rights" to foreign enemy combatants abroad, check. Not prosecuting people who intimidate voters and helping organizations that contribute to and cause massive vote fraud, check. Labeling groups of people who disagree with the administration as "dangerous terrorists," check. Suspending the monitoring of domestic people connected to Islamic terrorist groups, check ...
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22532844 Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:57:24 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22529444 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22529444 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:41:20 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526815
Don't think for a second that everyone in the Democratic party or every Obama supporter is of the same MoveOn ilk that cheered the death of Tony Snow on that shithole Daily Kos, burns American flags, vilifies American troops or throws stuff at recruiters on college campuses.

And to our liberal buddies, not every Republican is a homophobic xenophobe racist who thinks shooting abortion doctors is cool.

There certainly are some Democrats who "hate America" and some Republicans who are homophobic racists but there is no "you people" on either side of the idle.

Unfortunately for us sane Democrats and Republicans in the middle who can reach common ground on tons of issues it is these fringe kook religious wackos and liberal fascist haters who get their kooks on the ballot, leaving those of us with common sense and objectivity the sad choice between bad and worse.

And are you one of these common sense folks that really wants go get pissed. I just saw this in our hot deals forum...government subsidized cell service »www.safelinkwireless.com/Enrollm···ome.aspx
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526815 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:57:40 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526793 said by Bit:

Congress has partied hearty for 3 decades on the backs of Joe and Jane Taxpayer. The party is over and it is time to clean up the mess. I know now one wants to do clean up detail because it isn't as fun as wasting taxpayer dollars but it has to be done, and NOW, because the parents will be home any minute.
Any minute = about 3.5 years, and it might even be too late to fix the issue then..... :uhh:
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526793 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:51:36 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526555 said by KrK:

:uhh: Yeah. Broad generalities my ass. Outright lies and insults, definitely. You see and call exactly what you want to see. With your blinders on, of course.

"Democrats hate America". Whatever. Yawn.

If it is so easy to disprove, then by all means do it. But as long as you people use the same generalities to describe those with whom you disagree, then that makes it OK for us to do the same to you, and even more easier when we are correct.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526555 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:57:16 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526469
As it stands now, long term Federal liabilities are nearly $60 trillion and when you include the states it is over $60 trillion. But unlike corporate America, government is allowed to use fuzzy accounting to hide the REAL amount of these deficits.
»www.azcentral.com/news/articles/···519.html

And Obama's fiscal policy according to the CBO will DOUBLE our Federal debt. If Porkulous II passes, it will only be worse. If gov't wrecks heathcare, fergetit, the Federal government will quickly be insolvent, just like California (unless the ramp up the printing press resulting in massive hyper inflation). No objective American, of either party, can honestly support such reckless fiscal policy.

Congress has partied hearty for 3 decades on the backs of Joe and Jane Taxpayer. The party is over and it is time to clean up the mess. I know now one wants to do clean up detail because it isn't as fun as wasting taxpayer dollars but it has to be done, and NOW, because the parents will be home any minute.
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22526469 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:30:41 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22525365
"Democrats hate America". Whatever.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22525365 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:00:16 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22524791 said by KrK:

That's a total lie. Democrats are Americans. They aren't out to destroy America. Stop being such a pawn for the far right. LOL.

I call them as I see them. If you people are going to engage in broad generalities, why can't we?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22524791 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:07:45 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22524038
Failed here. More like sabotaged here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22524038 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:05:09 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523922 said by KrK:

The problem wasn't that TA1996 was such a horrible idea
Yes it was, that was the sole reason it failed as badly as it did.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523922 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:49:50 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523894
»www.markfiore.com/

(The California one is the current one) (Bear Flag Bananna Republic)
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523894 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:45:50 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523870
The problem wasn't that TA1996 was such a horrible idea, it was that it was never allowed to come to fruition.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523870 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:41:57 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523753 said by KrK:

It was only just beginning to work. The Telcos dragged their feet and gnashed their teeth at every turn. They were trying hard to make it fail. Instead of giving up and gutting it under Bush, they should of given it teeth and cracked down.
The 1996 Telecom Act was one of the biggest debacles of that decade. All it did was spawn thousands of "me too" UNE-P resellers. None of them gave any thought whatsoever to an actual business plan. None of them gave any thought to actually building their own network (why would they, the government forced the LEC to give them free money!). Customer service complaints went through the roof. People lost phone service for weeks during number porting. Anytime anything went wrong the UNE-P "company" immediately pointed the finger at the LEC, and then went home for the night.

If that was your idea of success, then you probably are cheering along at all the "progress" we have made since the holy one came into office.....

said by KrK:

Blame Clinton all you want, but it's just revisionist history.
I never blamed Clinton. I simply said the whole 1996 Telecom Act failed under him. It was such a poorly thought out project it would have failed under anyone to be honest. Most informed people look back at that whole mess and cringe, I bet Clinton himself would agree.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523753 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:20:08 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523706 --
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523706 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:11:51 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523691
Had they not done so, in one afternoon, the US financial sector would have lost 6 TRILLION dollars and gone bust in one day. The next day the collapse would have been total, followed by the rest of the world.

Things that happened this time, while having some similarities to past recessions, also had all new and incredibly fast actions due to modern technology and markets. Ironically programs designed in the height of the Y2K fears activated and saved our asses this time. Markets panic, and with modern electronic trading, financial transfers and disbursements it's entirely possible for a a panic to destroy the economy before people even knew WTF just happened.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523691 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:08:58 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523673 said by KrK:

The gutting of the 1996 Telecommunications Act occurred after Clinton left office, thank you.
Ummm, and are you inferring I said otherwise?? It failed during the 6 years Clinton presided over it, and Bush (rightfully so) took the focus off it and on to other more important things.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523673 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:06:33 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523654 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523654 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:01:57 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523647 said by pnh102:

And most Democrats hate this country, hate the people trying to defend it, and are doing everything they can to destroy it.That's a total lie. Democrats are Americans. They aren't out to destroy America. Stop being such a pawn for the far right.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523647 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:00:32 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523510
Thank goodness the sheeple TROUNCED the most recent Sacramento tax high shell game scam.

Carlin was absolutely right about kids being pains in the ass. "What about the Cheeld-drin, you don't hate Cheeld-drin do you?!?"
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523510 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:38:28 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523403 said by marigolds:

I think he was referring to the way the telecom act of 1996 was administratively gutted in the mid 2000s.
The fact that it (1996 Telecom Act) failed so miserably in its first 6 years (during which Clinton was president) only further proves my point however.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523403 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:19:48 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523369 said by Bit:

We need Gann reinstated after gutting state government and we need a Federal version of the Gann limit after completely gutting the Federal government. At least we need a Federal balanced budget amendment to the Constitution to end the borrowing..... BUT if we did that all the special interests, lobbyists and big business wouldn't get all the money they make now er, I mean "all their money they are entitled to that we owe them." Can't have that.... they need ROI for the money they pay to politicians....

:D

Actually, it's a joke, but it's on us, unfortunately.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22523369 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:15:11 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522787
Our deficit was endless union employee giveaways like Gray Davis during his reelection effort giving the prison guard union 30-40% pay increases and endless education spending where less than 1/2 the money actually makes it to the classroom, the rest soaked up by corrupt teacher union bureaucracy. At the same time the education spending keeps going up by leaps and bounds. Here in Orange County California, average public teacher salary is $74,528 and average California teacher salary is $64,424. Even figuring our higher cost of living, that is still way generous compensation and of course they only work 10 months out of the year.

California used to have a strong government growth control law called the Gann limit It was a state Constitutional amendment passed in 1979 following our tax revolution. It limited government growth to be based on population and cost of living. Any excess revenues had to by law be refunded to tax payers and in 1987 for example, $1.1 billion had to be returned to Joe and Jane Taxpayer.

But at the very end in the 1980's public employee unions campaigned heavily to modify the Gann limits, gutting them for union gain. Of course the sheeple bought it hook line and sinker and the gutting of Gann was the beginning of the end. In particular prop 98 required public education to get 50% of any revenues exceeding the Gann limit. Later propositions removed certain expenses from Gann limitations. All of these changes were put on the ballot and tens of millions in advertising spent by the public employee unions.

If the Gann limit had been left alone, we would be one of only 2 states in the nation running MASSIVE surpluses (actually there would be no surplus because under Gann that money would have to be returned to the taxpayers).

We need Gann reinstated after gutting state government and we need a Federal version of the Gann limit after completely gutting the Federal government. At least we need a Federal balanced budget amendment to the Constitution to end the borrowing.
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522787 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:38:24 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522694
Economically speaking (indicators wise), this is simply a major recession, not an economy collapsing into depression. It is just many people alive today haven't been so long enough to know or remember what a larger than normal recession looks like.
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522694 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:21:28 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522625 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522625 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 15:07:54 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522541
Plus, it's not just what they cost, since they don't pay their share of local, state, federal taxes, ssn, medicare etc they also contribute to shortfalls of "revenue" as you put it. Still, as you say, there's more to it then that as well.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522541 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:52:48 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522497
I really don't believe that this situation is being exploited... if anything, this economic situation is hamstringing the Administration.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522497 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:46:38 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522319 said by marigolds:

Quite true :)
But those two government programs are cases where private industry failed to miserable extents and the government stepped in with widely successful solutions that have paid for themselves. Success is in the eye of the beholder. With regards to Superfund there are still numerous sites that have yet to be cleaned up.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Super···ites.svg
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522319 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:17:52 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522139 But those two government programs are cases where private industry failed to miserable extents and the government stepped in with widely successful solutions that have paid for themselves.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22522139 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:51:56 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521884 said by marigolds:

Cough*CERCLA*cough*BrownfieldsInitiative*cough. At the rate we're going we'll both have hacked up all of our internal organs and we'd still have things we could cough up.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521884 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:13:58 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521849
When government intervenes in this natural process is when we have the most problems. Now I'm not saying intervening with limited and meaningful regulation to smooth out the wrinkles and prevent market manipulation is unacceptable, I'm saying to manipulate economic forces on such a huge scale only prolongs the damage and makes it worse. This is because the economic imbalance that is causing the problem is never allowed to right itself. These are problems that only the private sector (private sector meaning the non-government economy, not "big banks", "big business" etc) is large enough to solve. In the 1930's, government intervention was an absolute failure and it will fail here.

The economy eventually recovers despite of, not because of massive government spending and this level of spending will hugely disrupt the economy with the negative effects not appearing for a few years, manifesting in hyper inflation, high interest rates and huge unsustainable debt service costs. And in response the liberal government will crush job creators trying to pay for this. No society has ever taxed itself into prosperity and we won't be the first to do it. Building some roads isn't simulative. Giving pregnancy advice isn't simulative. Only correcting the wide scale inventory imbalance is "stimulative". Everything else is only fleeting and wasteful.

Failing businesses must be allowed to fail and their liquidation opens the door for other companies to buy up equipment, at a discount and competitors to absorb that market making them stronger in the meantime hiring those skilled displaced workers. Letting foreclosures happen drives down prices so that responsible people can afford to buy in to the market without resorting to 20-10-10 and interest only schemes...it is a natural market correction that restores home prices to the level they should be. By propping up failing companies and housing prices you are merely fighting darwinian economic forces, dumbing down the market, stopping innovation all at HUGE costs to the economy and Joe Taxpayer down the road.

Big banks should be broken up into smaller regional banks just as AT&T was broken up and common sense regulation would be limitations to their size and insisting on higher minimum capitalization levels. Bush's justice department would sign a leaf if it blew under a merger signing pen. That has to end. The burden of proof should be why we should allow a merger, not why shouldn't we allow a particular merger.

IMO, this administration is exploiting this "crisis" to further a Euro-socalist style agenda unrelated to fixing the economy, just as the previous administration's Neo-Con asswipes exploited 9-11 to further the middle east agenda of regime change.
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521849 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:10:08 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521846 The act itself is fairly strong; it was the executive rule making related to the act that gutted it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521846 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:09:46 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521632 --
POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521632 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:45:54 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521238
1) It's hard to move to another country if you want to live there and get a job there.
2) People might well like the home they've got, and want to work to make it better - whatever their definition of better is.
3) Maybe they just want to change part of their government, not the entire government...
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Opera 9.62(Build 10467); Windows XP Pro SP3;Intel C2Q6600; 3GB DDR2 1066; 1M/128k DSL; Antivir Personal; Comodo Firewall Pro 3;Proxomitron 4.5j Sidki 2008beta,GPG ID:0x0A1C6EE3]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22521238 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:46:05 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520916 said by sonicmerlin:

Do you realize how flawed your reasoning is? What exactly does Bernie Madoff's political affiliations have to do with the irresponsible fiscal policies pursued under a Republican president that allowed Madoff to commit his fraud in the first place?
Its hillarious how far over your head my comment went. Just to clarify, it wasnt my reasoning at all! The other poster made a moronic statement about how Republicans are all greedy and out for themselves, and he then presented Bernie Madoff (who is a DEMOCRAT) as the example to prove his point. Perhaps you should go back a re-read this whole discussion, eh?

said by sonicmerlin:

It was Bush's FCC appointments and deregulation that allowed the cable and telco lobbyists to gut the 1996 Telecom Reform Act in the first place. In fact the first few years after the Act was passed competition had been increasing, and speeds were leapfrogging along with dropping prices. It was Bush's (and all Republicans' favoritism of the rich), that led to the mediocrity of our situation now.
LOL! Ladies and Gentlemen, WE HAVE ANOTHER! Quick history lesson for you to review while you and your buddy try to pry your shoes out of your mouth.

said by Any intelligent person who doesnt live under a rock :
William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III, August 19, 1946)[1] served as the 42nd President of the United States from 1993 to 2001.


Seriously, if you are looking to place blame at least get your dates right. You are almost as funny as the person who is trying to drag Reagan into this conversation, although I bet he (at least) can figure out what years Reagan was president.
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D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520916 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:55:22 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520810
That being said, there's a ton of other factors as well.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520810 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:34:57 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520778
Now, that doesn't mean I'm happy about it. The situation that lead to this is rediculous.... and long term there's no way to "borrow your way to prosperity."

People in the country need to get their heads screwed on straight and realize that their "entitlements" and programs they support (left and right) need to go away. This includes many, many programs that people think they've "Earned" or have "rights" to. Sorry, the "everybody else but me" mentality will not work. I think people have no idea how truly painful this will be..... And that it needs to be done.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520778 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:29:31 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520245
A bunch of make work projects to government unions or handing billions to GM just to have it go BK anyway and be given to the union thugs that helped drive it into the ground in the first place isn't stimulating anything. Bailing out banks with the flawed theory it would recapitalize them and they would loan again? Despite this already being proved a failure in Europe, Bush, Reed and Pelosi did it here anyway. The banks took the money and are just sitting on it, while giving out millions in bonuses. Nothing in TARP compels them to loan as if more consumer borrowing is the solution to economic growth anyway. It was consumer borrowing and financial over-leveraging that got us into the mess in the first place.

This was a PURE pork bill, plan and simple, one that will lead us to insolvency just like California and at the end we will have nothing to show for it but unsustainable debt just like California. And in typical politician fashion, Obama went back on his campaign promise of transparency and delaying signing bills until the PEOPLE could look over the final bill. No one read this bill. It was RAMMED down our throats.

Now the Chinese who are funding this corruption are starting to balk at our completely irresponsible fiscal policy, laughing out loud at Timmy when he tells them things are under control. The bond market is starting to freak over this ever increasing debt driving up interest rates. What do you think will happen to the economy when we are at double digit interest rates? What do you think will happen to people with massive credit card debt when they are looking at 40% interest? What happens to the banks when all those idiots default? What do you think will happen when we have double digit inflation because the treasury is just running off the printing presses monetizing the debt? The CBO projects that Obama will DOUBLE our national debt over the next decade. Just servicing this debt will cost us $1T per year.

Where the hell are we going to get that money to pay a trillion a year in interest on this debt? By taxing the rich? Of course not. We do not have a wealth tax in America, we have an INCOME tax. That means only those who actually produce things and EARN money pay taxes. And what do you think will happen when those who are already paying nearly all the taxes get hammered again? What happens when you go after those people creating all the jobs? They leave. Just like they left California, they just move their operations overseas to avoid the taxes and keep the money they earned. Don't believe it? Just look at recent comments by Steve Ballmer about this. Microsoft, one of our most robust American companies, would be forced, at least in part, to flee. Bye bye jobs.

Now the same lunatics that are running Washington, driving this country quickly off a cliff say they are going to fix healthcare? Yeah right. Despite billions they could not even fix GM and they want to take over 12% of our GDP and fix it? And Kennedy wants employers who are already spinning from insane taxation and foreign competition to pay for it all? These people are insane.
Don't misunderstand, Bush was an idiot. People that borrowed more money than they could ever hope to pay back are idiots. But these liberal fascists running Washington are absolutely insane and are destroying this country.

When you are already in massive debt and running insanely high deficits the solution is not to dig the hole at 4X the rate with reckless and bullcrap pork bills. The solution is not to double the size of government. You have to CUT spending and let consumers keep more of the money they are earning. Let businesses keep more of the money they are earning. Implement common sense regulation, no more, no less.

You want to see the future Obamanomics will bring us, all you have to do is look at California. California is the result of a decade of insanely reckless fiscal policy and do-gooder-ism. They flogged us with taxes and the productive members of society just left. But while there is a Federal government to bail out California, who is going to bail out the Federal Government?

Bush is an idiot. Obama is an idiot. Republicans are idiots. Democrats are idiots. They are all bought and paid for by corporate and special interests. The only way CHANGE will come is when we limit political contributions to only those who are registered voters, no corporations, no lobbyists, no unions, no environmental wack jobs...just Joe Taxpayer. But since this will never happen we will just have to wait for the federal government to collapse like California government is.

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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520245 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:43:34 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520076 said by pnh102:

said by S_engineer:

Thats certainly a cynical veiwpoint. However, the fact that I concur to a certain degree is actually kind of sad! On the other hand, this is also an opportunity to make some actual progress. We'll see...
Cough*amtrak*cough.
Cough*CERCLA*cough*BrownfieldsInitiative*cough.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520076 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:42:15 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520019 said by kapil:

But, by and large, Republicans are greedy, selfish rich people or ignorant rednecks who are in it for themselves while Democrats actually stop and think about others once in a while. I'll take the latter any day. And most Democrats hate this country, hate the people trying to defend it, and are doing everything they can to destroy it. On top of that they'll tell me the USSR only failed because it wasn't tried for long enough. I'll take the former.

There are hundreds of countries with an advanced social welfare state. Why don't all the people who think it is such a good idea move to one of them instead?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22520019 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:09:55 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519947 said by sonicmerlin:

You do realize...Republicans widely favor the rich and big business, right?Then why do big Wall Street financial firms support Democrats?
said by sonicmerlin:

Whenever a Republican holds office the gap between the rich and poor becomes greater, innovation slows to a crawl, and extreme deregulation leads to fiscal irresponsibility.
LOL. Under Bush 43, more low income people than ever before ended up paying no federal income tax. And if you want to blame a particular president for the current so-called crisis, you might want to know that the law deregulating the banking industry was signed into law in 1999. Who was president during that year?
said by sonicmerlin:

It was because of Bush our economy was trashed,
Outside of 2002 and 2008 we had 6 straight years of solid economic growth.
said by sonicmerlin:

we developed huge budget deficits,
So has every other president. 0bama makes it an art though. His fiscal irresponsibility makes even W look like the most fiscally conservative president ever.
said by sonicmerlin:

and we entered into 2 wars while alienating all our foreign allies.
Yawn. 0bama has managed to piss off Israel, Germany, the UK and possibly even France all in 5 months while apologizing for just about everything "bad" that the US has ever done since the time of Adam. Is that impressive or what?
said by sonicmerlin:

Bush actively ignored the economic experts at the Federal Reserve while pushing his own agenda, which ultimately helped the rich become even richer. That's been the case with every Republican.
You mean the same idiots at the Federal Reserve who dumped tons of money into the financial sector (*cough*AIG*cough*) long before any calls for a bailout?

What happened when Bush did indeed listen to the Fed and started pushing for a bailout? What is happening now that 0bama is continuing these policies? We now have billions of dollars being dumped a black hole and the worst economic "crisis" since the Great Depression with no end in sight. Isn't that nice?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519947 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:32:07 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519927 said by Bit:

Reagan hasn't been president in 20 years. The majority of illegals currently here came to California long after 1988.LOL they're blaming Reagan because they can't get away with blaming Bush anymore. :)

Who's next? Nixon? Eisenhower? Lincoln?
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519927 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:20:09 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519718 --
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519718 Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:20:51 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519198
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519198 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:43:23 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22518355
Do you realize how flawed your reasoning is? What exactly does Bernie Madoff's political affiliations have to do with the irresponsible fiscal policies pursued under a Republican president that allowed Madoff to commit his fraud in the first place?

Even when Republicans make claims about not wanting to use the government to take money from people, the majority of their tax cuts go to the rich. The poor are always left out in the cold.

The economic "trickle-down effect" is a bunch of dogmatic nonsense. What it really means is the rich will trickle down their bodily wastes onto the poor, who will desperately grab at any sort of relief that comes their way. The ultimate effect, as any objective economic study will show you, is that the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

For the last 8 years under Bush our entire national economy stagnated. Our GDP grew at a 2.5% annual rate, the lowest rate recorded since 1951! When Bush took office the Dow Jones was at 10000, and when he left it was in the gutter at around 8000. Every policy he enacted, every deregulation he allowed for, all of it led to the (OBVIOUS) abuse of power by the selfish rich.

It was Bush's FCC appointments and deregulation that allowed the cable and telco lobbyists to gut the 1996 Telecom Reform Act in the first place. In fact the first few years after the Act was passed competition had been increasing, and speeds were leapfrogging along with dropping prices. It was Bush's (and all Republicans' favoritism of the rich), that led to the mediocrity of our situation now.

Honestly, it really shocks me how people can even support Republicans. The evidence is in front of their faces, but they refuse to accept reality due to an irrational fear of change. It's ridiculous.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22518355 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:35:58 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519146
Democrats in have controlled Congress for 3 years. If they wanted to do something, they easily could have. But alas, they are all corporate whores. Now we see that there is no entity more greedy, corrupt or fiscally irresponsible than liberal government. As bad as Bush was, and he was beyond horrible, Obama quadrupled Bush's insane deficits and the CBO says Obama will DOUBLE our national debt over the next decade to the point that just servicing the debt will cost $1 trillion per year. That is a level of debt this country will NEVER be able to pay off. And their answer? Go fleece job creators even more. Steal even more of their money and send even more jobs overseas. It is NEVER shrinking government and controlling spending.

Liberals are such philanthropists when it's other people's money they are stealing and spending. But God forbid their own constituency is expected to pay their fair share, no way.

Obama's deficit spending, greed and corruption makes Bush's idiocy look like amateur hour. Obama and Pelosi's politburo are decimating this economy. Despite spending hundreds of billions, unemployment continues to rise. Now all of this insane spending has the bond markets reeling, sending interest rates higher because higher inflation is inevitable with hyper inflation a serious threat. And what do you think double digit interest rates will do for our consumer debt and housing market? How many people do you think will be able to pay down credit cards with 40% interest? What will home values look like when mortgage interest rates are 11%?

And these same people who are running the country into insolvency are the same ones claiming they can fix the healthcare system? And they are going to RAM a heathcare bill down our throats like Reed, Pelosi and el-tardo Bush did with TARP? This administration and congress are absolutely inept and corrupt. Sure, healthcare costs need to be looked at, but these socialist fools in Washington would only make it 1000X worse.

You want to see the future that is Obamanomics, just look at California. Public services are non-functional while spending is at record levels and out of control. Taxes are insanely high and productive citizens are forced to flee.

The citizens of the EU have wised up and kicked the crap out of the socialists in the recent round of elections. Hopefully in 2012, we will have the same wisdom and kick these liberal Fascists out. Maybe, just maybe we can get leadership who believes in drastically smaller government and meaningful common sense regulation.

Fat chance of that though. The liberal fascists at Move On will try and re-elect their nut jobs while the religious wackos get their latest turds that float to the top of the bowl. Oh well.

"...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce [the people] under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."-TJ

Ron Paul 2012.
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POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519146 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:29:59 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519024 --
POKE 65495,1]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22519024 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:03:11 EDT Re: I have so little faith that government can do anything right http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22518773
However, profits are down at the nations phone companies. In fact, things are so bad they had to lay off 50 lobyists. So maybe we may have a chance this time. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-I-have-so-little-faith-that-government-can-do-anything-right-22518773 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 22:07:41 EDT