 El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2
 ·TekSavvy DSL
 ·voip.ms
 ·WIND Mobile
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| Why bother? quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions.
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by El Quintron: quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions. I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP?
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page |
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 mobModerhatedPremium
join:2000-10-07
·SureWest Internet
·Vonage
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Romney2012:said by El Quintron: quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions. I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP? Already been done.
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If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure - J. Danforth Quayle
Ich habe kein Mitleid - Me |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | said by mob:Already been done. Exactly. Broadband ISPs have been combating theft of service forever.
To TK: The cable companies don't ask the phone companies to disconnect telephone service from customers who don't pay their cable bill. Why then should the entertainment companies expect the ISP to disconnect their own problem consumers?
As for three-strikes, it's too severe. We don't take away someone's drivers license without due process, we ought not take away Internet access with any less scrutiny.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL |
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 hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:said by El Quintron: quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions. I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP? 
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My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it. He said, If I have a chance to invade if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it.I'm going to get everything passed that I want.
G W BUSH |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Oh HELL YES!
See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:said by El Quintron: quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions. I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP? So what is your solution, to keep doing things they way they have? Insanity( and stupidity ) is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
yes people should pay for thier content. The thing is they need to come up with something better than what they are doing now before it's too late and pirating movies is something people are just used to doing. Look at the music industry. they finally got rid of DRM, but they waited 10 years and now there a whole generation of people that are so used to it the whole concept of paying for music is lost on them. I bet most people that pay for music are closer to my age( 40 ) and older who have been used to buying music. I seriously doubt anyone under 25 bothers to pay for music. |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it.
lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. |
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hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | speaking of sneaking into movies, my wife and I got a "special deal" and saw 2 movies for the price of 1 |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
3 edits | reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. That is breaking an entering and tresspassing - no.
That is a criminal offense.
Copying a digital media file is a civil case and is Copyright Infringement.
Apples and oranges friend!
EDIT: Something to also remember - for anyone to download a DVD rip, someone somewhere had to buy a DVD to be ripped.
You missed the part where if it wasn't for me downloading several movies, I would have never purchased the Blu-ray Discs of them.
The source I get my movie downloads from are doing them(MPAA) a favor! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. People do this all the time already. Again, it's not the fire-fighters job to stop them, it's the theatres.
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:said by El Quintron: quote:
ISPs should not be forced into the role of propping up the music and film industries failing business models
No truer words were ever said. It's not the ISP's job to protect these guys from bad business decisions. I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP? What would the change of attitude be, in that case? It's not like there's anyone downstream that he'd be asking for help.
ISPs are generally fairly capable of protecting their own networks when they want to (how many threads have been on here about MODEM tampering, caps, throttling and the like over the years).
If you're going to post something like this, you really need to do so with comparisons of equivalency.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to BF69
said by BF69:Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. Don't make any arguments that shake my metaphor, just say "you're right BF69!" and be done with it.
Good grief!
I've got a slightly better metaphor than the movie theater one. What about these guys that set up lawn chairs up on the roof and watch the Cubs' game for free? Or that peek through the ivy-covered fence instead of paying admission? That's pretty close to the order of theft or losses involving most file-sharers of the newest content.
It's really non-productive to compare it to shoplifting or auto theft. It's likewise useless to pretend that "day0" file-sharing cannot have some negative financial impact. Both extreme examples are easily shaken apart.
Such examples are useless -- they tend to replace actual action like creating an permanent, inexpensive and complete online library of musical recordings or changing the model and laws regarding how artists are compensated for their art. You know, the hard stuff!
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL |
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nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to BF69
said by BF69:I seriously doubt anyone under 25 bothers to pay for music. Perhaps you should actually get to know some people 25 and under before making (yet another) incorrect supposition.
You should probably also get to know people in the IT industry - of any age. They've been trading music since before the average person had even heard of the Internet or things like Napster.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to BF69
said by BF69:The thing is they need to come up with something better than what they are doing now before it's too late and pirating movies is something people are just used to doing. Look at the music industry. they finally got rid of DRM, but they waited 10 years and now there a whole generation of people that are so used to it the whole concept of paying for music is lost on them. I bet most people that pay for music are closer to my age( 40 ) and older who have been used to buying music. I seriously doubt anyone under 25 bothers to pay for music. I agree with the gist of your message, that the industry simply must fix its model and quit its bitching. But don't think that the younger generation never pays for music. ...
I've seen the CD cases and I've paid the iTunes charges.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL |
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nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | reply to funchords
said by funchords:Such examples are useless -- they tend to replace actual action like creating an permanent, inexpensive and complete online library of musical recordings or changing the model and laws regarding how artists are compensated for their art. You know, the hard stuff! Which is one of the most disgusting parts of the anti-piracy things over the years. You'll have people whose only "crime" was downloading or sharing content that you couldn't even buy because the labels couldn't be bothered to continue to press physical media or make back catalogs available online.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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El Quintron... a faint odor of kerosenePremium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·voip.ms
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to Romney2012
said by Romney2012:I wonder if his attitude would be the same if "the pirates" figured out a way to steal service from his ISP? Hmmm assuming you have experience in the business world, you would know that running to the government for a handout when you screw up is a last resort...
Same here, after years of "screwing up" by charging too much, selling bad products (a whole cd with one song the public wants) there's competition from both infringing and non-infringing services.
How is the ISP responsible for this?
Turning this into of an issue of I wouldn't like it if people stole from TSI is a poor distraction at best.
TSI offers a service people want to pay for...
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Working to bring you closer to a Bell and Rogers free household. |
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 RallyBah HumbugPremium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to funchords
The Movie and Record legal team, been calling people pirates ever since making 'home music mix tapes' or copying VHS tapes to a blank one. The art of pirating isnt new, it's just something you cannot EVER control. What you have to do is, is embrace the buyers of your product, not force them to goto the darkside (insert darth vader music)!
If the Movie/Music companies have a brain, they'll make their own unlimited music service(s) that can compete with the likes of other services. You'll never, ever stop pirating, but least your profit will outgain, the arrr me' mateys.
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The more you talk, the less you listen. |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. What people are failing to grasp, here, is that you be required to actually prove specific cases. Even if 99.999% of P2P was piracy, you should still need to prove it to impose sanctions. That is the way our justice system is supposed to work.
If you want civil sanctions, you need to prove to a judge, to some lesser degree than for criminal sanctions. But you must still offer proof.
What the entertainment industry wants is to be able to impose sanctions without even the minimal burden of proof required of civil tort cases. They want to be able to impose sanctions solely on the basis of their assertions. That is flat wrong, no matter how you look at it.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | reply to BF69
No it is not ok, because you are trespassing. It still does not cause the theater to lose money in any fashion.
cw |
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