 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to hopeflicker
Re: Why bother? Oh HELL YES!
See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it.
lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. |
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 hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greedPremium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
kudos:1 | speaking of sneaking into movies, my wife and I got a "special deal" and saw 2 movies for the price of 1 |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
3 edits | reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. That is breaking an entering and tresspassing - no.
That is a criminal offense.
Copying a digital media file is a civil case and is Copyright Infringement.
Apples and oranges friend!
EDIT: Something to also remember - for anyone to download a DVD rip, someone somewhere had to buy a DVD to be ripped.
You missed the part where if it wasn't for me downloading several movies, I would have never purchased the Blu-ray Discs of them.
The source I get my movie downloads from are doing them(MPAA) a favor! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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 GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. People do this all the time already. Again, it's not the fire-fighters job to stop them, it's the theatres.
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My BLOG!
Black Friday Ads |
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 funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to BF69
said by BF69:Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. Don't make any arguments that shake my metaphor, just say "you're right BF69!" and be done with it.
Good grief!
I've got a slightly better metaphor than the movie theater one. What about these guys that set up lawn chairs up on the roof and watch the Cubs' game for free? Or that peek through the ivy-covered fence instead of paying admission? That's pretty close to the order of theft or losses involving most file-sharers of the newest content.
It's really non-productive to compare it to shoplifting or auto theft. It's likewise useless to pretend that "day0" file-sharing cannot have some negative financial impact. Both extreme examples are easily shaken apart.
Such examples are useless -- they tend to replace actual action like creating an permanent, inexpensive and complete online library of musical recordings or changing the model and laws regarding how artists are compensated for their art. You know, the hard stuff!
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL |
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 nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by funchords:Such examples are useless -- they tend to replace actual action like creating an permanent, inexpensive and complete online library of musical recordings or changing the model and laws regarding how artists are compensated for their art. You know, the hard stuff! Which is one of the most disgusting parts of the anti-piracy things over the years. You'll have people whose only "crime" was downloading or sharing content that you couldn't even buy because the labels couldn't be bothered to continue to press physical media or make back catalogs available online.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell |
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 RallyBah HumbugPremium
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to funchords
The Movie and Record legal team, been calling people pirates ever since making 'home music mix tapes' or copying VHS tapes to a blank one. The art of pirating isnt new, it's just something you cannot EVER control. What you have to do is, is embrace the buyers of your product, not force them to goto the darkside (insert darth vader music)!
If the Movie/Music companies have a brain, they'll make their own unlimited music service(s) that can compete with the likes of other services. You'll never, ever stop pirating, but least your profit will outgain, the arrr me' mateys.
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The more you talk, the less you listen. |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to BF69
said by BF69:No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. What people are failing to grasp, here, is that you be required to actually prove specific cases. Even if 99.999% of P2P was piracy, you should still need to prove it to impose sanctions. That is the way our justice system is supposed to work.
If you want civil sanctions, you need to prove to a judge, to some lesser degree than for criminal sanctions. But you must still offer proof.
What the entertainment industry wants is to be able to impose sanctions without even the minimal burden of proof required of civil tort cases. They want to be able to impose sanctions solely on the basis of their assertions. That is flat wrong, no matter how you look at it.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | reply to BF69
No it is not ok, because you are trespassing. It still does not cause the theater to lose money in any fashion.
cw |
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funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | reply to BF69
said by BF69:No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. With respect, I have to disagree when it comes to what artists want fans to do with recordings of music. Some artists will agree with you, but I have a hunch they'd be in the minority. Artists are exhibitionists (in the non-sexual meaning). They want the art to be experienced.
Artists tend to live for the ability to make the expression, communicate the thought/emotion/story/song to sympathetic and/or appreciative people, and perhaps collect the recognition (applause). That a business can be built around that is important (as it sustains the work), but it is a secondary consideration.
I noticed this first in the 1970s, when a successful recording artist named Keith Green bought out his contract with Sparrow Records so that he could sell his music for whatever people were willing and able to pay, even if that was nothing.
As I got into performing myself, I met other artists who freely performed a 20-30 minute set -- stuff they'd get $2000 a night for -- just for the opportunity to do it for other singers and those of us hopefuls (I never made it much past 'hopeful'). The fact is pretty plain: Art is just not about the money, not primarily at least. It's about the sharing.
I last saw this phenom again a couple of years ago when Radiohead and Nine-Inch-Nails released their music online pay-what-you-can style. Both indicated that such releases not only spread their music farther, but actually made more money than hard sales.
Note: An artist struggling to emerge won't make enough money on the pay-what-you-can sales of recordings -- but that fact is true of the $15/CD model as well. First you get famous, then you make money on recordings as a result.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
1 edit | reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. That is breaking an entering and tresspassing - no. That is a criminal offense. Copying a digital media file is a civil case and is Copyright Infringement. Apples and oranges friend! EDIT: Something to also remember - for anyone to download a DVD rip, someone somewhere had to buy a DVD to be ripped. You missed the part where if it wasn't for me downloading several movies, I would have never purchased the Blu-ray Discs of them. The source I get my movie downloads from are doing them(MPAA) a favor! Nice dodge of answering the question. Regardless of the breaking and entering is sneaking into a movie without paying right? Of course not. You're lack of an answer says it all. the the whole "copying in not stealing because it's not a physical item" is proven wrong because sneaking into a theater isn't taking a physical item either.
See you don't even have to answer the question to give me your answer.
see I am UNBIASED that's how I can see the logic. The people here than download can't because then they can't justify their actions then. You know that to be true. You can't admit something is wrong when you are doing it yourself. Since I'm not an employee of the media companies and I no financial stake in them I can be UNBIASED so therefor I am more likely to use LOGIC and REASONING and therefor much more likely to come to the CORRECT conclusion.
My only problem is obviously not taking the hint that the uneducated uniformed or unethical people will actually ever listen and see the light.
By the way the whole "I buy the blu-rays" is bullshit. that's like saying you steal the DVD form wal-mart but as long as you buy the blu-ray it's ok. No it's not. Here's clue you could buy the blu-rays anyways. if you want to "try before you buy" it's called RENTAL. It's like $4. If you can't afford that then perhaps another job is needed and less time watching illegally downloaded movies.
See I just PROVED there is no justification. Also you can keep coming up with lame excuses and if you wish to waste your time trying to justify it to me go ahead. THERE IS NOT ONE THING YOU CAN SAY THAT WILL MAKE ME CHANGE MY OPINION. Got it? So take that into account before you decide to reply. If it's not in line with something I've already stated you're just wasting your time. |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Gbcue
said by Gbcue:said by BF69:said by dadkins:Oh HELL YES! See, this is what the "Theif" and "Stealing" people cannot grasp - if it were possible to make an exact copy of a Ferrari, they would be doing it themselves! No you can't grasp the concept is that if you don't want to pay for it you should not have it. lt me ask you this. Is it ok for me to sneak into a movie theater without paying? I'm not actualy "stealing" anything. I'm not taking a physical item. Don't say I'm taking a seat that could be sold to a paying customer. Let's assume the theater is 80% empty. Don't say buying popcorn and drinks makes up for it. Say I don't buy any snacks I'm just there to watch the movie. So is it ok to sneak into the theater? yes or no. People do this all the time already. Again, it's not the fire-fighters job to stop them, it's the theatres. did I say it was? No. So was there a point to your post? nope. |
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GbcueAlmost P.E.Premium
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA
kudos:8 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| said by BF69:did I say it was? No. So was there a point to your post? nope. Well, according to you, that's who's to enforce the non payers.
--
My BLOG!
Black Friday Ads |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to wentlanc
said by wentlanc:No it is not ok, because you are trespassing. It still does not cause the theater to lose money in any fashion. Actually it does, in some fashion. Theaters pay taxes, utilities, and, maybe, rent. They apportion the COB by the number of available seats, and the time those seats will be occupied during an exhibition of a movie. A seat, whether occupied, or not, is a "net cost" to the theater. A seat occupied by a non-paying individual is, thus, revenue not generated that should have been; i.e., a sort of a loss.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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wentlancYou Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | There is a fixed cost per room to operate a movie. Whether there is 1 viewer, or 1000, the cost remains constant.
If that person would not have purchased a ticket in the first place, then there really is no loss. The closest I could argue is where a paying customer is displaced by a non-paying customer. This is due to competition for the same space.
cw |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| I suppose that the freeloader would argue, in his defence, were he actually charged with "theft of service", that, there being no loss, he took nothing? You said, originally, "It still does not cause the theater to lose money in any fashion." I am merely pointing out that there is a loss of revenue, which is some "fashion" of loss.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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