 JohnInSJPremium join:2003-09-22 San Jose, CA Reviews:
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Re: Automotive Gauge Cluster Design Runs Linux said by No_Strings:Someone will load compiz on it and try to make it spin. Better then worrying about Malware (ATMs running XP, anyone?) -- My place : »www.schettino.us |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | said by JohnInSJ:Better then worrying about Malware (ATMs running XP, anyone?) Those ATMs were hacked with physical access to the insides — no OS could withstand that kind of attack, so this seems like a cheap shot. |
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 SUMwarePremium join:2002-05-21 kudos:2 4 edits | Windows XP Cash Machines Can Steal Your PIN said by Steve:said by JohnInSJ:Better then worrying about Malware (ATMs running XP, anyone?) Those ATMs were hacked with physical access to the insides — no OS could withstand that kind of attack, so this seems like a cheap shot. From ITWire 05 June 2009 - quote: Windows XP cash machines can steal your PIN
It is bad enough that the bad guys constantly try and phish your financial data via email and fake websites, now cash machines are getting in on the act.
The SpiderLabs team reports that it has been able to perform an analysis of the malware, which had been discovered on compromised East European cash machines running Windows XP.
The malware was able to capture the magnetic stripe data from the private memory space of transaction-processing applications that were installed on these compromised ATMs, along with PIN codes for good measure.
Courtesy of some advanced management functionality found within the malware code, the attackers are able to control the compromised cash machines via a customised interface which can be accessed by simply inserting a controller card into the ATM card slot.
The stolen data can then be printed using the receipt printer built into the ATM, or output via the card reader to a suitable storage device. SpiderLabs do not believe that there is any networking functionality built into the malware, however.
I understand that the malware can be installed, and activated, by way of a Borland Delphi Rapid Application Development executable that replaces the original isadmin.exe utility file. Executing this dropper produces the malware file within the C:\WINDOWS directory of the machine.
This is not the first time that ATM security has left customers vulnerable nor will it be the last.
Trustwave warns it "highly recommends ALL financial institutions with ATMs under management perform analysis of their environment to identify if this malware or similar malware is present. Trustwave collected multiple version of this malware and therefore, feels that over time it will evolve."
From DaniWeb Feb 18th, 2008 - quote: ATM security leaves customers vulnerable to hackers
It has been estimated that something in the region of 70 percent of the ATMs in current use are based not on the proprietary hardware, software and communication protocol platforms of old but instead on PC/Intel hardware and commodity operating systems, the most popular being Windows XP embedded. In fact, it is not too much of a stretch of the imagination to think of these ATMs as being simple PCs running simple PC operating systems and using the standard Internet Protocol that we are all used to. Of course, all this is housed in a very secure vault-like box along with some additional peripherals, which makes it all OK. Or does it? According to Network Box, a managed security services company which has just published a white paper on the subject of IP-ATM security, banks and financial institutions are failing to properly secure their ATMs, leaving consumers' personal details vulnerable to hackers. The report itself actually cites three main threats to ATMs: internet protocol (IP) worms; disruption of the IP network and denial of service; and the harvesting of consumers' transaction data for malicious purposes. The latter could result in hackers being able to collect consumers' personal details, such as their card number, account balance and transaction history.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that all a determined hacker, and for determined read backed by a highly professional criminal organisation, needs to do is access some part of that IP network between the ATM and payment processor to be privy to the personal detail contained within the unencrypted data stream.
The ATM manufacturers do integrate firewall software on the devices but these do nothing to prevent unencrypted traffic from leaving the machine, just make it harder for the less professional hacker to get into the ATM itself.
Mark Webb-Johnson, CTO of Network Box, told us "Most people simply assume that because an ATM is invariably provided by a bank, the transactions and the data being transmitted must be secure. This assumption may have been true in the past, but today ATMs operate in a way that makes them far more susceptible to attack. We've already seen in August 2003 how the Nachi (aka Welchia) Internet worm crossed over into 'secure' networks and infected ATMs for two financial institutions; and we've witnessed the SQL Slammer (aka Sapphire) worm indirectly shutdown 13,000 Bank of America ATMs. The chances are that if banks don't use technology that can actually provide an effective level of protection - technology that is already on the market - then it is very likely that more high-profile attacks are to follow."
[some emphasis added] |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | Well the most recent ATM "hack" (which was the first one you posted) involved physically hacking the machine: it doesn't matter that the guy replaced isadmin or did whatever else. No OS can withstand this kind of attack.
The second article addresses two points: an unencrypted IP network (which seems unrelated to Windows), and Nachi/Welchia/Slammer worm attacks on ATM networks.
Of all these points, only the last really weighs in on the issue of OS security, and it's not at all dispositive. It's obviously Microsoft's bug if they have a remotely exploitable flaw, but does this obviate any responsibility for a financial network designer to reduce attack surfaces? To turn off services you don't need? To patch issues you know are important?
In an engagement some years ago, I more or less completely penetrated the network used by Standard & Poors to distribute stock quote information to subscribers: by hacking one machine, I was able to pop my head up inside the network of some very large institutions who had no idea that they were at such risk.
The device in question ran Linux, had services enabled by default, and had not been patched recently, but never once in the years since this event did I associated the problem with Linux.
It was the people who built the devices who were simply shockingly careless, and would have made the same mistakes with any other OS.
I don't mind blaming Microsoft (or any vendor) for stuff they actually get wrong, but it's intellectually dishonest to stop the search for information once you learn that MSFT is involved and just assume it's their fault.
Steve -- Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Microsoft Security MVP | Orange County, California USA | my web site |
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 SUMwarePremium join:2002-05-21 kudos:2 2 edits | I did not post that originally. |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | Ok, inartful wording.
The incident to which your first quoted article referred is the same one discussed in the Security forum, and it involved a physical-access hack. -- Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Microsoft Security MVP | Orange County, California USA | my web site |
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 SUMwarePremium join:2002-05-21 kudos:2 2 edits | reply to Steve From TweakTown June 5, 2009 - quote: Flaw in XP lets malware steal PIN Numbers
There is a hack that has been put into place on ATM (Automated Teller Machines)using windows XP as an OS that allows for malicious persons to recover account and PIN numbers directly from the machine.
The hack is most likely inserted using a compromised card that when read by the ATM causes the infection to begin. Once the virus is in play it replaces the isadmin.exe file which then replaces the lass.exe file.
Once the infection has run its course another control card can be used to harvest the information gathered. According to the report the card can even eject the cash box on the ATM.
From TG Daily June 04, 2009 - quote: Windows XP-Based ATMs Targeted by Hackers
The malware contains advanced management functionality allowing the attacker to gain full control of the compromised ATM through a customized user interface built into the malware. This is accessible by inserting controller cards into the ATMs card reader.
Analysts do not believe the malware includes networking functionality that would allow it to send harvested data to other, remote locations via the Internet, but does allow for the output of harvested card data via the ATMs receipt printer or by writing the data to an electronic storage device inserted into the ATMs card reader. Analysts also discovered code enabling the malware to eject the cash dispensing cassette.
"This malware is unlike any we have ever had experience with. It allows the attacker to gain complete control over the ATM to obtain track data, Pins and cash from each infected machine," said TrustWave.
"We believe the current attack vector is an early version of the malware sample, and future attacks will add functionality such as propagation via the ATM network. If an attacker can gain access to one machine, the malware will evolve and propagate automatically to other systems."
The malware is installed and activated through a dropper file called isadmin.exe. It is a Borland Delphi Rapid Application Development (RAD) executable.
Executing the dropper file produces the malware file lsass.exe within the C:\WINDOWS directory of the compromised system and does so via functionality provided by a Windows API. Once the malware is extracted, the dropper proceeds to manipulate the Protected Storage service that normally handles the legitimate lsass.exe executable, located in the C:\WINDOWS\system32 directory to point at the newly created malware.
The service is also configured to automatically restart in the event that it crashes, ensuring that the malware remains active.
From IT Pro 4 Jun 2009 - quote: Malware allows criminals to control cash machines
Trustwave Report (pdf) The company also said that it had collected multiple versions of the malware and felt that over time it could evolve and infect a more widespread number of ATMs.
From BankInfoSecurity June 8, 2009 - quote: ATM Fraud: 7 Growing Threats to Financial Institutions
#7. Malware -- That report from SpiderLabs isn't the only malware found. Sophos researchers in March say they found a Trojan specifically designed to steal information from Diebold ATM users that had infected several ATMs in Russia. SpiderLabs researchers explain the Trojan collects magnetic stripe data and PINs from the Windows XP-based ATM's transaction application's private memory space. Researchers found it came with its own management function that allows the attacker take over the ATM with a custom interface that may controlled by the attacker when they insert a controller card into the ATM card reader. Both research arms say that they expect the Trojans they discovers to evolve and spread, infecting more ATMs. Trustwave recommends that all financial institutions with ATMs perform analysis to identify if this malware or similar malware is present.
[some emphasis added] |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | You seem positively determined to make this about Microsoft, but it's not. I wrote about this in the Security forum, and the speculation: said by your quoted article :
The hack is most likely inserted using a compromised card that when read by the ATM causes the infection to begin. is almost certainly not true.
A magstripe card can hold at best 200 bytes of data, so getting 11k or so bytes of isadmin.exe onto the machine that way seems like a serious stretch.
But later we learn that this hack did indeed involve physically breaking into the machine - that's how the bad stuff got installed into the OS. Once it's on the machine, no other details really matter.
Now I'm sympathetic to disbelieving anything Diebold says (shall we take a vote on that?), but I'm really, really skeptical how this could be done with a cardswipe.
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The larger point here is that properly determining culpability is important, and it certainly has nothing to do with keeping a good image on the face of a favored vendor, or maintaining bragging rights in Linux versus Windows.
If you mis-assess the reason for a security compromise, you are less likely to take steps to protect yourself properly in the future by spending time on stuff that doesn't matter.
In the case of the ATM hack, it involved physical access and expertise in how the particular machines operated. Does anybody really believe that changing the OS to Linux would have made any difference to the skilled bad guys?
Steve -- Stephen J. Friedl | Unix Wizard | Microsoft Security MVP | Orange County, California USA | my web site |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | said by Steve:You seem positively determined to make this about Microsoft, but it's not. That sounds positively shilly there Steve 
Personally, I think Sumware and Matunga are the same guy. They are both equally zealous if a bit misguided -- a ying and yang if you will. 
As to the original article, that's neat. Linux does a lot of neat things and is perfect for most embedded applications. |
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 | said by Matt:Personally, I think Sumware and Matunga are the same guy. They are both equally zealous if a bit misguided -- a ying and yang if you will. Now that's a low blow, no matter how you look at it.
SUMware may be an unabashed Linux advocate, but he will always engage in discussions of his posts, which are usually informative at least, and legitimate. Matunga's 'smear-and-run' posts are quite a different animal.
I think you owe SUMware an apology for that comparison. |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | said by Lurkarooski : I think you owe SUMware  an apology for that comparison. As do I; this is not even close. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | said by Steve:said by Lurkarooski : I think you owe SUMware  an apology for that comparison. As do I; this is not even close. From what I have seen of both, neither are open minded to dissenting opinions. I was merely attempting to illustrate that Matunga is as anti-Linux as Sumware is anti-Microsoft. |
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 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant join:2001-03-10 Yorba Linda, CA kudos:5 | said by Matt: From what I have seen of both, neither are open minded to dissenting opinions. I was merely attempting to illustrate that Matunga is as anti-Linux as Sumware is anti-Microsoft. No: SUMware has a strident view, but he sticks around to at least attempt to defend his position.
matunga engages in drive-by shillery. |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | said by Steve:said by Matt: From what I have seen of both, neither are open minded to dissenting opinions. I was merely attempting to illustrate that Matunga is as anti-Linux as Sumware is anti-Microsoft. No: SUMware  has a strident view, but he sticks around to at least attempt to defend his position. matunga  engages in drive-by shillery. I agree with that. Although I think both methods are disingenuous.
Regardless, it was tongue in cheek as I don't actually think they are the same person. So if I offended anyone, I apologize. |
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 SUMwarePremium join:2002-05-21 kudos:2 1 edit | reply to Steve I AM NOT, NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN, matunga. I promise! Geez!
Yes, I strongly support FOSS. Guilty. Yes, I find many of MS' well documented tactics unappealing and frequently skirting legality, if not plunging overboard. Groklaw and numerous others have published the sordid details over the years.
said by Steve:said by Lurkarooski : I think you owe SUMware  an apology for that comparison. As do I; this is not even close. Thank you, you are gentlemen. Sorry about being strident, Steve.
said by Matt:Although I think both methods are disingenuous. strident - loud, harsh, grating, or shrill; discordant. See Synonyms at loud, vociferous. vociferous - loud and forceful disingenuous - not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating
Disingenuous? I strive to be accurate and clear.
said by Matt:So if I offended anyone, I apologize. Anyone in particular? |
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 SUMwarePremium join:2002-05-21 kudos:2 | reply to Matt Never mind. Forget it.
matunga, really. geez. |
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