dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
14300
share rss forum feed


neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

Plastic water bottles in the sun

I figure this is the best place to pose this question, given the wide audience.

My wife is a front-end manager for a grocery store, and as a display for summer, they put a pallet of cases of water out front of the store. The front of the store faces east, so it gets morning and afternoon sun. Ever since they did this, they have had numerous people come up and say those bottles shouldn't be out there because when they get hot, the plastic will leech toxins into the water. The store manager says he won't move them, unless he has proof otherwise. (Besides the sun fading the packaging...)

My wife wants something to either show the manager so he will move them, or to show customers that there is no problem with the water being there.

Info - The bottles are #1 PETE plastic. The product is a store brand.

Research - So far, I have come across articles talking about Lexan Polycarbonate bottles, which are used as baby bottles, home delivery water bottles, sports bottles (refillable), and other uses. They all say that bisphenol-A (BPA) can leech from the plastic into the contents. I have not found anything really against or for my issue. I have found something against freezing #1 bottles, but nothing about heating.

What I need is something for my wife to take to her manager to show there is a problem with the bottles being in the sun so he will move them, or something to post to show customers that there is no ill effects from the bottles being in the sun. I need something that can be printed and referenced. Links to the articles or info would be helpful as well. All I have to go on now is a Snopes.com article (at »www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/pl···tles.asp), but it only mentions heating in the title, but not in the data of the article.

Thanks for the help....
--
"F is for Fire that burns down the whole town...
U is for Uranium...... Bombs...
N is for NO SURVIVORS!!!!!" Sheldon Plankton



Sir Meowmix III

@windstream.net

»health.usnews.com/usnews/health/···stic.htm



dandelion
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-29
Germantown, TN
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to neonhomer

Just my thought, I would think if a lot of customers consider it a dangerous practice to store these bottles in the sun, they won't buy them from this store even if your wife posts a note to prove otherwise. Sales of this will decrease if enough customers believe it. IMO I just wouldn't be interested in buying water warmer then it already is . If sales are the same on this product over time, then I don't think management will do anything different unless it says on the bottle to avoid heat. Possibly your wife can keep track of the sales over a time hopefully having information from before and after the display was moved?
--
Spare computer cycles can help find answers
Find A Cure!



TearAbite
D'oh

join:2001-07-25
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
kudos:2

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to neonhomer

if it were me, i would love to stick something in the face of the customers that screams "your wronggg!!" - but like Mr MS Dandelion said, it's not going to change their mind..
In this case, if i were the boss, i would heed the old "..customer is always right" credo..
if he chooses not to, then it's his lost sales..



Mr Neutron
Ceaseless, Tasteless, and Gormless
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME
reply to neonhomer

I'm a "put your money where your mouth is" kinda guy, so how about this:

Since the bottles on the outside edges are going to sell first, why not open a bottle in the top/middle section? And every time someone objects to the bottles being out there, the manager can reach in, grab the "demo" bottle, take a drink...and show them, firsthand, that all is well.

Let's face it: most people nowadays can't read anyhow, so I'm not sure what good printing something out to show to illiterate people is going to achieve here, exactly.
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream.



Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Verona, PA
reply to neonhomer

You're wasting your time. The people who feel the need to point it out already distrust the establishment. Anything you post that says otherwise will be ignored even if it was published by God himself.

To them, it's plastic, it's made of scary chemicals. That's all they care about.
--
Come let us reason together.



Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro
reply to Mr Neutron

said by Mr Neutron:

I'm a "put your money where your mouth is" kinda guy, so how about this:

Since the bottles on the outside edges are going to sell first, why not open a bottle in the top/middle section? And every time someone objects to the bottles being out there, the manager can reach in, grab the "demo" bottle, take a drink...and show them, firsthand, that all is well.

Let's face it: most people nowadays can't read anyhow, so I'm not sure what good printing something out to show to illiterate people is going to achieve here, exactly.
That's going to an extreme... And even then, the carcinogens take years to build up (if it was true).
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan


Mr Neutron
Ceaseless, Tasteless, and Gormless
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME

said by Tzale:

said by Mr Neutron:

I'm a "put your money where your mouth is" kinda guy, so how about this:

Since the bottles on the outside edges are going to sell first, why not open a bottle in the top/middle section? And every time someone objects to the bottles being out there, the manager can reach in, grab the "demo" bottle, take a drink...and show them, firsthand, that all is well.

Let's face it: most people nowadays can't read anyhow, so I'm not sure what good printing something out to show to illiterate people is going to achieve here, exactly.
That's going to an extreme... And even then, the carcinogens take years to build up (if it was true).
Who said any effects necessarily had to be immediate?

My point was that by drinking out of those same bottles, the manager is showing them that, if there's a risk, he's sharing it right along with the customers.

At any rate, I'm not convinced that there's any real danger unless the customers are going to be drinking the water in question all of the time. I have a tough time believing that somebody buying a bottle or three of this water had better not waste any time making funeral arrangements.

Maybe it's just me, (and fair enough) but I think the fact that so many people feel obliged to point out that drinking this water Could Lead to Death is indicative of just how risk-averse our society has become.

If you were drinking out of a plastic sports bottle day after day, over a long period of time, then, yes, I could see it. Drinking water out of one of these bottles for a week? Not so much.
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream.


pog4
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
reply to neonhomer

There's no sense in arguing with customers... even calmly disagreeing with them ...over stuff like this, at least. The whole point of having a store is to sell stuff, right?

Next time a customer says something, the simplest thing to do is just say "the manager doesn't think there's a problem but we have a lot more stock inside the store at the front of aisle 3 if you don't agree with him"... or something like that.
--
My Site



Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

1 edit
reply to Mr Neutron

said by Mr Neutron:

said by Tzale:

said by Mr Neutron:

I'm a "put your money where your mouth is" kinda guy, so how about this:

Since the bottles on the outside edges are going to sell first, why not open a bottle in the top/middle section? And every time someone objects to the bottles being out there, the manager can reach in, grab the "demo" bottle, take a drink...and show them, firsthand, that all is well.

Let's face it: most people nowadays can't read anyhow, so I'm not sure what good printing something out to show to illiterate people is going to achieve here, exactly.
That's going to an extreme... And even then, the carcinogens take years to build up (if it was true).
Who said any effects necessarily had to be immediate?

My point was that by drinking out of those same bottles, the manager is showing them that, if there's a risk, he's sharing it right along with the customers.

At any rate, I'm not convinced that there's any real danger unless the customers are going to be drinking the water in question all of the time. I have a tough time believing that somebody buying a bottle or three of this water had better not waste any time making funeral arrangements.

Maybe it's just me, (and fair enough) but I think the fact that so many people feel obliged to point out that drinking this water Could Lead to Death is indicative of just how risk-averse our society has become.

If you were drinking out of a plastic sports bottle day after day, over a long period of time, then, yes, I could see it. Drinking water out of one of these bottles for a week? Not so much.
I know it sounds like a good idea, but the customers would be so convinced that it is bad that they would be thinking the manager is hurting his health.

And I agree with you on the other stuff.. People seem to forget that we are animals and used to eat food off of the ground!

-Tzale
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan


Mr Neutron
Ceaseless, Tasteless, and Gormless
Premium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME

1 edit

said by Tzale:

I know it sounds like a good idea, but the customers would be so convinced that it is bad that they would be thinking the manager is hurting his health.
Maybe the best thing to do would be to see if the goods displayed outside sell at all. [shrugs] If the store doesn't move a decent number of them after a week or two, they'd likely be better off putting something else out front.

When it comes down to it, I just don't see the value in trying to convince these customers, one way or the other. I'm unclear as to why plastic bottles will (allegedly) leech toxins into water, but only at "high" temperatures.

Aren't those bottles trucked around in unrefrigerated semis on their way to the store? My very first job involved helping to unload semis and, IIRC, the interior of one of those trailers wasn't exactly cool as a cucumber after the semi had been on the road for a day or two.

(Of course, this whole thing could well be a part of the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. So there's that important consideration as well.)
--
We could use the £5,000 to buy a spoon. And then fill up with ice cream.


Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro

said by Mr Neutron:

said by Tzale:

I know it sounds like a good idea, but the customers would be so convinced that it is bad that they would be thinking the manager is hurting his health.
Maybe the best thing to do would be to see if the goods displayed outside sell at all. [shrugs] If the store doesn't move a decent number of them after a week or two, they'd likely be better off putting something else out front.

When it comes down to it, I just don't see the value in trying to convince these customers, one way or the other. I'm unclear as to why plastic bottles will (allegedly) leech toxins into water, but only at "high" temperatures.

Aren't those bottles trucked around in unrefrigerated semis on their way to the store? My very first job involved helping to unload semis and, IIRC, the interiors of those trailers weren't exactly cool as a cucumber after the semi was on the road for a day or two.

(Of course, this whole thing could well be a part of the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. So there's that important consideration as well.)
I wonder if it has to do with the ultraviolet radiation from the sun..

-Tzale
--
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-:-
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism."~Ronald Reagan


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Tzale:

I wonder if it has to do with the ultraviolet radiation from the sun..
Exactly, UV causes plastics to break down. Whether the results are dangerous, I don't know.

dmagerl
Premium
join:2007-08-06
Woodstock, IL
reply to neonhomer

I wouldnt put those bottles in the sun, but for another reason.

The bottles will act like lenses and focus the sun, possibly setting something on fire.

My neighbor used to use water filled clear plastic bleach bottles to hold his pool cover down. One day he called me over and showed me where the pool cover had been melted in charred arcs around each of the bottles. I mean that cover had burnt holes everywhere. He ditched the bottles and bought a new cover. It was an expensive lesson about being cheap.



boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
kudos:1
reply to neonhomer

guess all of us over here are boned.

#1 PET bottles in the middle east dessert 1L size advice is depending on workload as many as 12L a day. It's all stored outside.

maybe that's where Gulf War syndrome started??
--
my site



Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
reply to neonhomer

A good reason not to keep bottled water in the sun is that there is often a trace of algae in the water and it will multiply rather quickly given enough light. Then you'll have healthy green algae floating around in your water.



icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
reply to neonhomer

I was actually a juror on a case involving baby bottles and "Bisphenol-A"

There is certainly some evidence pointing to heating/microwaving certain plastics releasing chemicals that are carcinogens. Now to what levels, and how much exposure is really an issue...that's of course up for debate.

I wouldn't equate plastics in sun vs. microwave being hot enough myself. But like someone said you are not going to change someones mind. Just leave them out, and if anyone has an issue, give them a case from inside...


8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

1 recommendation

reply to neonhomer

If the customers were really smart, they'd read the labels and realize those bottles of water contain water from some other city's municipal water supply and not some mountain spring like the label implies, and that they're paying about $20 a gallon for what they could get from their own tap for less than a penny!



nklb
Premium
join:2000-11-17
Ann Arbor, MI
kudos:2

said by 8744675:

If the customers were really smart, they'd read the labels and realize those bottles of water contain water from some other city's municipal water supply and not some mountain spring like the label implies, and that they're paying about $20 a gallon for what they could get from their own tap for less than a penny!
That's true of some brands of bottled water (such as Dasani), but not all.
--
for all your Linux questions

ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to neonhomer

If nothing else, your wife found a good way to identify all of the idiots who believe the BS their equally stupid friends forward to them via email.



i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS

1 recommendation

reply to neonhomer

too myself the water tastes different after be exposed to direct sunlight for the day as opposed to sitting in garage out of sunlight and exposed to radiant heat.
--
calling a illegal alien undocumented is like calling a drug dealer a undocumented pharmacist



woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

If not mistaken consumer reports reported that bottled water has a higher than tap water concentration of bacteria and the longer it is on the shelf the higher it gets, which only makes sense since it is essentially untreated water. Distilled water on the other hand tends to store longer, but I can be wrong. I myself have a reverse osmosis water purifier system, and fill my bottle daily with this filtered water, cheaper, and tastes better. downside is I believe it tends to waste water in the filtration process which I make up for in other conservation areas.
--
BlooMe



r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
reply to i1me2ao

said by i1me2ao:

too myself the water tastes different after be exposed to direct sunlight for the day as opposed to sitting in garage out of sunlight and exposed to radiant heat.
I will find you even more people who will claim that tap water put into a plastic bottle makes it taste better.

OP, all you have to do is contact the manufacture and ask for a statement that storing the bottles in the sun is OK. The manufacture is the only one you should trust in answering this question. If they will not give you the statement then have your wife go through retail channels to get an answer from them.

In my opinion the bottles will not be in the sun long enough to cause any damage and to release toxins. They would have to be in the sun for years to start degrading them.
--
For those of you playing a drinking game.... MY FRIENDS!


jonnyz
Premium
join:2003-03-20
Canfield, OH
reply to neonhomer

2 things to tell this "manager":
1. Nobody wants to drink super-warm bottled water
2. WTF happens when it rains? The water cases are wrapped in plastic, but the labels are most likely paper and will get ruined in the rain.

p.s. I work at a grocery store also.
--
Join the RC5 team.



Melatonin06
Premium
join:2002-02-05
NJ
reply to neonhomer

Most of the things we consume have some sort of chemical that gets ingested with the product. But it isnt a high enough concentration to cause a problem. Just tell your customers that they should do some research and call the FDA if they think there is a problem with a product sold there.

Or you can be a smart ass and tell them the sun has a better chance of causing their skin harm.
--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."



Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2
reply to neonhomer

Every time I see the subject for this thread, I hear Violent Femmes...



cline3621
Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREEN
Premium
join:2006-06-14
Clarksville, TN
reply to neonhomer

I would think bottles in the sun would be fine. I can't remember which book it was from, but the writer made the claim that when in the sun the Ultraviolet rays would kill any bacteria and other organisms in the water, hence the reason the bottles are made to be transparent to light. This reminds me of the 'radiation scare' when the USDA started to allow poultry companies to irradiate chickens to kill bacteria. Too many well...undereducated idiots claimed people were going to get radiation sickness from eating said chickens. Unfortunately this is 'group think' for you. Here is another example.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen···ide_hoax

»www.dhmo.org/



tmh

@verizon.net
reply to neonhomer

said by neonhomer:

Ever since they did this, they have had numerous people come up and say those bottles shouldn't be out there because when they get hot, the plastic will leech toxins into the water. The store manager says he won't move them, unless he has proof otherwise. (Besides the sun fading the packaging...)
Tell them that the sun's UV rays is keeping the water sterile so you don't ingest any nasty bugs in the water.


Mchart
First There.

join:2004-01-21
Kaneohe, HI
reply to neonhomer

These types of bottles are actually illegal to sell now if I recall. This is why you can no longer buy the original Nalgene bottles - Even though they were more durable then the new formula Nalgene bottles.
--
THIS IS SPENCER. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED - I HAVE JOE. RETURNING TO BASE.



neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
reply to neonhomer

The water does sell. Customers will grab the packages from outside and bring them in to pay for them.

I hate to say it, but most of the people coming in and complaining are elderly people. I told my wife to just tell them "If you don't like it, don't buy it."