Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| reply to badtrip
Re: Chief Privacy Officer?
said by badtrip  :Because of the fact that AT&T was "funneling data wholesale to the government " they will never see another penny from me, ever. I admire your willingness to stand by your principles. Me? I don't care so much about that because in this day and age, Law Enforcement needs every advantage they can get. |
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81399672
Premium
join:2006-05-17
Los Angeles, CA
| said by Matt :said by badtrip :Because of the fact that AT&T was "funneling data wholesale to the government " they will never see another penny from me, ever. I admire your willingness to stand by your principles. Me? I don't care so much about that because in this day and age, Law Enforcement needs every advantage they can get. Even if it violates the law?
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i am not a lawyer but I do play one on the internet |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
1 edit | reply to Matt
Even if it lead to losing other important Constitutionally protected rights? I mean, if you're willing to give up privacy, why not freedom of speech while you're at it? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| said by SLD :Even if it lead to losing other important Constitutionally protected rights? I mean, if you're willing to give up privacy, why not freedom of speech while you're at it? I have a problem with statements that start with "even if it leads to... " When it starts leading down that path, we can address the problem. I don't see how any "constitutional rights" were violated and think linking it to the 4th amendment is a bit of a stretch.
Right now, we need to get out of the way of law enforcement and let them do their job. Whether people want to believe it or not -- and the last days bear out my point -- we have US Citizens who want to harm this country and its citizens. You can't ask our governmental agencies to protect us, but tie one hand behind their back and blindfold them. |
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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
 ·Comcast
2 edits | You've obviously never studied Constitutional Law, or truly understand the concept of the "slippery slope".
And no one is tying hands behind the back or blinding law enforcement. Just asking the to do their jobs while abiding to the Constitution. The primary document that protects *you* from tyranny. |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
 ·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :I admire your willingness to stand by your principles. Me? I don't care so much about that because in this day and age, Law Enforcement needs every advantage they can get. While I do agree that law enforcement needs to exploit advantages so that they can do their job as fairly and efficiently as possible.
I do not think said advantages should be gained by pursuing measures that are against the law. Further, I do not trust US law enforcement agencies in their current state to do anything fairly or efficiently. |
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badtrip
East Bay
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join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt : You can't ask our governmental agencies to protect us, but tie one hand behind their back and blindfold them. The police's function is not to insulate the citizenry from harm (physical or otherwise); their function is social control and protection of private property. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
1 edit | reply to SLD
said by SLD :You've obviously never studied Constitutional Law, or truly understand the concept of the "slippery slope". Your assumption is wrong. I simply don't care. For all the noise that was made about this, not one single person can point to a case where anything bad was done with the information gleaned, yet this supposedly went on for a decade or more.
On my "things to worry about meter," this ranks pretty low. It sits between whether I should have chicken or fish for lunch today and my post-shower decision of boxers or briefs. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to badtrip
said by badtrip :said by Matt : You can't ask our governmental agencies to protect us, but tie one hand behind their back and blindfold them. The police's function is not to insulate the citizenry from harm (physical or otherwise); their function is social control and protection of private property. Who said anything about the police? |
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badtrip
East Bay
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join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :For all the noise that was made about this, not one single person can point to a case where anything bad was done with the information gleaned, yet this supposedly went on for a decade or more. On my "things to worry about meter," this ranks pretty low. It's sits between whether I should have chicken or fish for lunch today and my post-shower decision of boxers or briefs. Wow.
No one can point to anything that has been done wrong with the data because the Bush/Obama administrations would/will not let any case regarding this matter go to court.
You have to go to court ***before*** you can determine that any laws were broken. The very fact that they do not allow this issue into the courts is very damning IMO. |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by badtrip :said by Matt : You can't ask our governmental agencies to protect us, but tie one hand behind their back and blindfold them. The police's function is not to insulate the citizenry from harm (physical or otherwise); their function is social control and protection of private property. Who said anything about the police? You did. Or have they changed police depts from being govt agencies? |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to badtrip
said by badtrip :Wow. No one can point to anything that has been done wrong with the data because the Bush/Obama administrations would/will not let any case regarding this matter go to court. You have to go to court ***before*** you can determine that any laws were broken. The very fact that they do not allow this issue into the courts is very damning IMO. You would hold up the constitution as a shield with one hand a seek to supplant ... oh wait, let me start over. You hold up the constitution in one hand yet are willing to discard other basic rights such as the right of "innocent until proven guilty." If the government deems this a critical to national security, too critical to be publicly disclosed, then I trust them.
What I think drives people nuts about things like this is the same basic human trait that many children display. If you can't have (or in this case know) it, you want it even more. |
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to badtrip
said by badtrip :You did. Or have they changed police depts from being govt agencies? Then by your logic all governmental agencies are the police? Interesting. |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| said by Matt :said by badtrip :You did. Or have they changed police depts from being govt agencies? Then by your logic all governmental agencies are the police? Interesting. Sorry no. I studied set theory. By my logic all police departments are government agencies. |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :said by badtrip :Wow. No one can point to anything that has been done wrong with the data because the Bush/Obama administrations would/will not let any case regarding this matter go to court. You have to go to court ***before*** you can determine that any laws were broken. The very fact that they do not allow this issue into the courts is very damning IMO. You would hold up the constitution as a shield with one hand a seek to supplant ... oh wait, let me start over. You hold up the constitution in one hand yet are willing to discard other basic rights such as the right of "innocent until proven guilty." If the government deems this a critical to national security, too critical to be publicly disclosed, then I trust them. What I think drives people nuts about things like this is the same basic human trait that many children display. If you can't have (or in this case know) it, you want it even more. If you mean I want this to be argued in court but Bush/Obama says no and that answer in turn makes me want the issue to be argued in court even more, then I'd agree with you.
Innocent until proven guilty only works when one can actually GO TO COURT. |
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badtrip
East Bay
Premium
join:2004-03-20
Albany, CA
·Unwired Ltd
·Comcast
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :If you can't have (or in this case know) it, you want it even more. ...and "knowing" things is horrible, isn't it? Oh wait "knowing" things is actually the opposite of horrible. |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to badtrip
Re: Chief Privacy Officer?
said by badtrip :f you mean I want this to be argued in court but Bush/Obama says no and that answer in turn makes me want the issue to be argued in court even more, then I'd agree with you. Innocent until proven guilty only works when one can actually GO TO COURT. Sorry to be a broken record but you all are way off track. The wiretap case is not about "innocent or guilty". It's not about "broken laws" or "criminal activity". It's simply a civil lawsuit alleging that a group of people were harmed, and citing the Constitution. No criminal case or lawbreaking has ever been alleged, much less put on a court docket. |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Matt
said by Matt : don't care so much about that because in this day and age, Law Enforcement needs every advantage they can get. Every advantage.
EVERY Advantage.
Really?
Stalinist Law Enforcement gained every advantage they could. So did Nazi Law Enforcement, Maoist Communist, etc.
I fail to understand how moving our government closer toward unlimited control over it's citizenry, brings us closer to the country that the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Couldn't we use you as a test subject, by giving government huge increases in power over your life and see how your family thrives under it?
Then we could decide whether to inflict it upon the rest of America.
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. |
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cline3621
Mr. Yuk is MEAN Mr. Yuk is GREEN
Premium
join:2006-06-14
Clarksville, TN
·CDE
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :For all the noise that was made about this, not one single person can point to a case where anything bad was done with the information gleaned, yet this supposedly went on for a decade or more. I would ask you to do some reasearch on 'Brandon Mayfield' and his situation with the federal government from 2004-2009 before saying what is quoted above.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield
»www.criminaljustice.org/public.n···Document
»www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5053007/
Unfortunately, I could not find the link to the Wall Street Journal story that talked about the FBI illegally entering Mr. Mayfields residence without warrant, to set listening devices on his telephones. Since I'm at work right now I don't have the time to find it. 
But to keep it short, this man was arrested, without charge, on manufactured evidence. It took pleading from the Spanish authorities to begin the process of clearing this man's name.
As a side note stuff like this has happened in the past. Does the name Richard Jewell ring a bell? It was a fairly similar situation in 1996 and his rights were violated just the same. He had to fight tooth and nail to even begin to clear his name. |
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