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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to mod_wastrel

Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence

Such Republican political talking points. Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense.



DataDoc
My avatar looks like me, if I was 2D.
Premium
join:2000-05-14
Martinsburg, WV

1 edit

It's not about politics, it's about waste.



mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
reply to SLD

Republican vs. Democrat = two sides of the same coin. Companies are in business to make money... duh. Our representatives are "supposed" to represent our interests--"our" as in "we the people". Of course, if they were ever to do that, I'm sure half the population would faint from the shock.



mrkevin
Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers.
Premium
join:2007-08-07
Aurora, ME

1 recommendation

reply to SLD

you have a choice though:
You're not forced to do business with anyone...Except the Gov't.

I can't see why making a profit = evil
If I am selling something, I want the highest price I can get for it. Does that make me evil?
If I am buying something I want to pay the least amount I can for it. Does that make me evil?



FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

Such Republican political talking points. Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense.
(Corporate costs + profits) is still less $ than (gov't inefficiency + no profits). And that is the formula that matters.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

Such Republican political talking points. Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense.
So do you mean to imply that companies should give away their goods/services for free??
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

1 recommendation

reply to SLD

Except corporations earn their money, they don't steal it by Federal mandate just to set it on fire in corrupt waste-filled bullcrap.

Just look at oil, with all the screaming that goes on about Exxon profits, government makes 6X the "profit" off a gallon of gas than Exxon does. Exxon makes about $0.10/gal profit per gallon and when you sell as much product as they do it equates to insane amounts of profit, in the tens of billions of dollars.

BUT, the Federal government excise tax is $0.184/gal plus there is state excise tax, sales tax etc. In California for example, while Exxon makes their hefty $0.10 per gallon, government makes $0.639/gal. »www.californiagasprices.com/Tax_Info.aspx So when evil corporate Exxon makes $10B, the goverment rakes in well over $60B. When evil Exxon makes $40B, the government rakes in well over $240B.

PLUS government gets to tax Exxon on those billions in profit and they tax the crap out of everyone who works at Exxon (in the U.S.)...even more insane government profit off Exxon's efforts. Meanwhile government didn't do a damn thing for it except endlessly vilify them.
--
POKE 65495,1



mod_wastrel
iamwhatiam

join:2008-03-28
kudos:1
reply to mrkevin

It's not that profit is evil. It's the lying that people do to get it, and get more of it, that's evil. It's that whole "money is the root of all evil" thing. Those who seek it go to the places where they can get it.



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to wifi4milez

No, I'm just pointing out that when someone claims that Gov't is just plain wasteful, the other option is to hire a company to do the same job. When the Gov't does it, there may be waste, but not necessarily. When a company does it, much more cost will be extracted from the citizens because a profit *must* be earned. And typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs. This is particularly inherent is gov't backed monopolies like communications.



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to Bit00

Uhhh... the cost of gas going from $1.75 to over $4 a gallon was not Gov't profit. That was legalized theft from the corporate sector - the same sector that is getting socialized bailouts.



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to FFH

And your source for this statements comes from??? Hannity?



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to wifi4milez

Did I imply that?



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to mod_wastrel

Yep.



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits
reply to SLD

Wrong. It was supply and demand. Increased demand from China and India put pressure on a limited resource along with speculators and it was OPEC and other petro-nations that got the biggest money...funding idiots like Hugo Chavez.

Exxon got their money from the pure volume of purchases and government got theirs by theft.

And given that sales tax (8.75% here in Cali) is on the price of the gas, the more expensive the gas got, the more insane profits the government made on it. The California sales tax alone eclipses the profits Exxon makes on the gas in this state.

In fact when prices started to drop, Sacramento pissed and moaned, wanting to raise the excise tax to compensate for the drop in obscene sales tax revenues that they had reaped and quickly wasted.
--
POKE 65495,1



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

1 edit

Oh, sorry, you're right. China and India went out and found their own supply - that's why the price went down. NOT!
If you understood how the futures market (and other trading) works, you'd understand that the cost was a result of artificial demand. Why do you think the cost dropped by 50% in 1 month - right around the threats of investigation?

Enron's stock jockies did the same thing in CA. They went down for it.



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

Did I imply that?
Yes.

said by SLD:

Keep in mind that Corporate = profit -> worse than waste because they take as much extras as they can at your expense.
You clearly stated that a company making a profit is worse than government waste, your words not mine....
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

1 edit

But I didn't say that companies should give away their goods/services for free? Did I?
It is worse for the citizen because they are paying more for the same thing. But companies have a right to earn a profit. If I can get health care as an option from the gov't for less because no profit, I'll appreciate that option.


jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
reply to SLD

When the gov't does it, there is ALWAYS waste.



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

1 recommendation

reply to SLD

No guy, the world economy took a massive shit over a period of just a few weeks and that is the ONLY reason the price dropped. Oil is sold on the futures market and you had oil producers producing and stockpiling tons of oil based on economic conditions and demand before the economy went over the cliff. Oil traders see the economy instantly tank and they get out and fast, futures prices tank. So now you have few takers for the supply and like all inventories they were far larger than any demand...so the price dropped.

Now we are starting to see the signs of an economic recovery so what is happening, oil is back to $70bbl because traders see increases future demand, oil producers are producing at rates suitable for a tanked economy instead of a recovered one.

Simply put, with the dying economy you had dying demand, price drops. With a recovering economy you have resurgent demand, price is going up. And even with a mediocre recovery, the huge inventory imbalance that got the price way down so fast, starts to correct itself and the price goes back up just as it is doing now.

Meanwhile gov't steals billions either way.

--
POKE 65495,1



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

But I didn't say that companies should give away their goods/services for free?
You very clearly stated that making a profit is worse than government waste. Hence, you are saying that a company making no profit is good. A company making no profit (a non-profit if you will) is essentially giving its goods/services away for free after they have covered their own expenses. The economy couldnt exist if every company was non-profit, so your argument is fundamentally flawed.

said by SLD:

It is worse for the citizen because they are paying more for the same thing.
How do you figure that? The money needs to come from somewhere. If you arent paying for it directly it is financed by taxes. Given how badly the government manages these programs, the end result is you will pay more that you would have for an inferior product/service.

said by SLD:

But companies have a right to earn a profit. If I can get health care as an option from the gov't for less because no profit, I'll appreciate that option.
You arent really getting it for less. The money for health care still needs to come from someplace, so the gub'ment will need to raise taxes to cover the difference.
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

I love people who expect other people and companies to work for free while they themselves gladly tax a paycheck.
--
POKE 65495,1



wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
reply to SLD

A wise person once said, "There is no such thing as a free lunch." Think about that and how it applies here.



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 edit

1 recommendation

They see it as free so long as someone else is paying. They aren't concerned with the burdens their thieving and leeching puts on the productive elements of society.

Thankfully we are not on the only ones who recognize the total failure of government.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs


And no teleprompter
--
POKE 65495,1


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
reply to wifi4milez

Hey, one thing can be better or worse than another, but rating the value doesn't invalidate the service. You insist on stating that I said that services should be given away - this was never said or implied. It's a stupid idea anyway.



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

2 edits
reply to wifi4milez

said by wifi4milez :

You arent really getting it for less. The money for health care still needs to come from someplace, so the gub'ment will need to raise taxes to cover the difference.
Sure, but since no profit needs to be earned on the gov't insurance, the cost will be much lower to the citizen,or they'll get more for their money.


footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs.
I read that statement in utter disbelief. You actually mean that? Has any corporation EVER wasted even half as much money as the recent stimulus package?

There's no doubt that many (if not most) corporations are run by greedy people that would sell everything good and wholesome for a buck. There's also no doubt that many (if not most) politicians - especially at the federal level - are greedy people looking out solely for their own careers and back pockets who will sanction absolutely anything that's politically expedient, regardless of how badly people get hurt.

I think you have some serious blinders on.
--
It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash


wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace

join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

1 recommendation

reply to SLD

said by SLD:

Sure, but since no profit needs to be earned on the gov't insurance, the cost will be much lower to the citizen,or they'll get more for their money.
Thats a total fallacy. Unlike a "regular" company that needs to make a profit in order to survive, the government doesnt have that restriction. They will (and have!) run the program into the ground and simply raise taxes to cover their inability to manage it properly.

Look at any gov run institution if you dont believe me. Since nobody is held to a standard (since they arent out to make a profit right?), it foments a culture of laziness. Take the DMV for example, those people are total bums and literally dont care about anything other than stamping their time cards. Now take those same "overly qualified " morons and simply place them in the back office that controls nationalized health care. Is THAT really your idea of how things should be??
--
D-Day; If you can read this thank a soldier
-The United States of America-



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 edit
reply to SLD

said by SLD:

And typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs.
Total government liabilities now exceed $63,000,000,000,000.00, that is over $500,000.00 per household. National yearly deficit has quadrupled in just 1 year to $1,800,000,000,000.00. The CBO projects that our national debt will DOUBLE in just the next decade to $20,000,000,000,000.00. Servicing that debt alone will cost $1,000,000,000,000.00 a year.

Don't even think of comparing corporate profit which is EARNED as a productive element of society to the level of government waste that we are seeing and have seen over the last 30 years and particularly over the last 8-9.
--
POKE 65495,1


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA
reply to footballdude

footballdude See Profile
There's no doubt that many (if not most) corporations are run by greedy people that would sell everything good and wholesome for a buck. There's also no doubt that many (if not most) politicians - especially at the federal level - are greedy people looking out solely for their own careers and back pockets who will sanction absolutely anything that's politically expedient, regardless of how badly people get hurt.
Isn't that the truth...its as if people believe that corporations have a monopoly on greed. The same types of greedy people running the corporations are also running the government. Corps at least have competition and shareholders to keep themselves in check. The gov't? There's no competition to keep the gov't in check, they can tax all they want and waste all they want. No one is going to run the gov't out of business. I guess technically the gov't answers to the voters, but when voters only have two choices, there's not much accountability...

lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

1 edit
reply to mod_wastrel

said by mod_wastrel:

It's that whole "money is the root of all evil" thing.
Sounds like a populist message that has been skewed by the current fascist regime.

The correct phrase is "The love of money is the root of all evil"

We are not evil because we need money. We need it to pay our mortgages, feed our families, cloth our children and help those less fortunate.