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 Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
4 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Except corporations earn their money, they don't steal it by Federal mandate just to set it on fire in corrupt waste-filled bullcrap.
Just look at oil, with all the screaming that goes on about Exxon profits, government makes 6X the "profit" off a gallon of gas than Exxon does. Exxon makes about $0.10/gal profit per gallon and when you sell as much product as they do it equates to insane amounts of profit, in the tens of billions of dollars.
BUT, the Federal government excise tax is $0.184/gal plus there is state excise tax, sales tax etc. In California for example, while Exxon makes their hefty $0.10 per gallon, government makes $0.639/gal. »www.californiagasprices.com/Tax_Info.aspx So when evil corporate Exxon makes $10B, the goverment rakes in well over $60B. When evil Exxon makes $40B, the government rakes in well over $240B.
PLUS government gets to tax Exxon on those billions in profit and they tax the crap out of everyone who works at Exxon (in the U.S.)...even more insane government profit off Exxon's efforts. Meanwhile government didn't do a damn thing for it except endlessly vilify them.
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|   SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Uhhh... the cost of gas going from $1.75 to over $4 a gallon was not Gov't profit. That was legalized theft from the corporate sector - the same sector that is getting socialized bailouts. | |
| | Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
4 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Wrong. It was supply and demand. Increased demand from China and India put pressure on a limited resource along with speculators and it was OPEC and other petro-nations that got the biggest money...funding idiots like Hugo Chavez.
Exxon got their money from the pure volume of purchases and government got theirs by theft.
And given that sales tax (8.75% here in Cali) is on the price of the gas, the more expensive the gas got, the more insane profits the government made on it. The California sales tax alone eclipses the profits Exxon makes on the gas in this state.
In fact when prices started to drop, Sacramento pissed and moaned, wanting to raise the excise tax to compensate for the drop in obscene sales tax revenues that they had reaped and quickly wasted.
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| | | SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence Oh, sorry, you're right. China and India went out and found their own supply - that's why the price went down. NOT!
If you understood how the futures market (and other trading) works, you'd understand that the cost was a result of artificial demand. Why do you think the cost dropped by 50% in 1 month - right around the threats of investigation?
Enron's stock jockies did the same thing in CA. They went down for it. | |
| | | | Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
4 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence No guy, the world economy took a massive shit over a period of just a few weeks and that is the ONLY reason the price dropped. Oil is sold on the futures market and you had oil producers producing and stockpiling tons of oil based on economic conditions and demand before the economy went over the cliff. Oil traders see the economy instantly tank and they get out and fast, futures prices tank. So now you have few takers for the supply and like all inventories they were far larger than any demand...so the price dropped.
Now we are starting to see the signs of an economic recovery so what is happening, oil is back to $70bbl because traders see increases future demand, oil producers are producing at rates suitable for a tanked economy instead of a recovered one.
Simply put, with the dying economy you had dying demand, price drops. With a recovering economy you have resurgent demand, price is going up. And even with a mediocre recovery, the huge inventory imbalance that got the price way down so fast, starts to correct itself and the price goes back up just as it is doing now.
Meanwhile gov't steals billions either way.
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| | | | | | Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
4 edits | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence According to your graph, gas sales are UP the first 3 months of 2009.
Jan 341,733.3
Feb 355,295.6
Mar 355,922.3
And as demand went down the first 3 months of the year gas was cheaper than the previous 3 months. And as demand picks back up, prices go back up.
Again, oil is sold on the FUTURES market. Market traders are anticipating FUTURE demand so even if current demand appears stagnant, buyers are speculating as to what demand would be 3 or 6 months down the road.
Also your post only refers to US gasoline sales. Gas is not the only oil based product and of course oil products are in demand all over the world to changes in US demand while influential are not the sole determining factor in barrel or refined products prices.
Oil, an international commodity traded in US dollars is also going up because of our fiscal policy. The excessive spending is causing the value of the dollar to tank. So even if oil as a "value" were to stay the same, the ever falling dollar doesn't buy as much, making the apparent price of oil go up. A sizable portion of the oil price runup in recent years has been attributed to the falling dollar as well as increased demand. Plus benchmark crude that we see quoted all the time is a specific grade from a specific location so other oil producers will have differing prices. You can have Texas crude cheap while Mid East oil is expensive and vice versa so you can see a cheap quoted barrel price on the news and think WTF, why is gas expensive?
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| | Exxon has had the highest total profit for a quarter in the history of any single corporation in the entire world. | |
| |  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence said by sonicmerlin:Exxon has had the highest total profit for a quarter in the history of any single corporation in the entire world. Profit and profit % are 2 different things. Total profit is meaningless as it only reflects the size of a company. It is the % that matters and Exxon has never led the world in profit %.
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| | Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | Yes, that is why I chose Exxon for my example given how they were so villified for the massive profits they made during the record demand period for oil products.
And knowing what Exxon made anyone can appreciate the INSANE amount of money the government reaped from those operations despite the government not having done a damn thing for it.
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| | | | | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence said by Bit00:And knowing what Exxon made anyone can appreciate the INSANE amount of money the government reaped from those operations despite the government not having done a damn thing for it. Your statements seem to indicate that you believe the government should not be allowed to receive any revenues from Exxon’s activities because the government did not directly help Exxon.
The government may not have directly done anything for that money, but Exxon’s operations would be more difficult without the environment provided by the government in terms of national defense and transportation infrastructure among other things. Federal and state dollars are used to build the roads that allow for greater gasoline demand from Exxon and those same roads allow Exxon to deliver gasoline to each station.
Perhaps the government is receiving an excessive cut from Exxon’s activities; however, the language you have repeatedly used implies that the government should be receiving nothing. Maybe that is not your intended meaning.
I supposed the real question is what is the correct amount that the government should gain in benefit from Exxon’s operations? | |
| | | | Bit00Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
1 edit | Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence No, what I am saying is that there is no entity in this world, more bloated, more corrupt, more wasteful or more out of money than the Federal government. If there is an entity that shouldn't be pissing with our national broadband infrastructure, it's our beyond broken and easily bribed government.
Government wouldn't know the concept of clear goals if it bit it on the ass. It needs to be totally gutted and doing virtually NOTHING instead of trying to control everything.
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