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SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

reply to wifi4milez

Re: Gov't and clear goals don't belong in the same sentence

No, I'm just pointing out that when someone claims that Gov't is just plain wasteful, the other option is to hire a company to do the same job. When the Gov't does it, there may be waste, but not necessarily. When a company does it, much more cost will be extracted from the citizens because a profit *must* be earned. And typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs. This is particularly inherent is gov't backed monopolies like communications.

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

When the gov't does it, there is ALWAYS waste.



footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO

reply to SLD

said by SLD:

typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs.
I read that statement in utter disbelief. You actually mean that? Has any corporation EVER wasted even half as much money as the recent stimulus package?

There's no doubt that many (if not most) corporations are run by greedy people that would sell everything good and wholesome for a buck. There's also no doubt that many (if not most) politicians - especially at the federal level - are greedy people looking out solely for their own careers and back pockets who will sanction absolutely anything that's politically expedient, regardless of how badly people get hurt.

I think you have some serious blinders on.
--
It's a trick. Get an axe. - Ash


Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

1 edit

reply to SLD

said by SLD:

And typically, gov't waste is a pittance compared to corporate profits earned on our backs.
Total government liabilities now exceed $63,000,000,000,000.00, that is over $500,000.00 per household. National yearly deficit has quadrupled in just 1 year to $1,800,000,000,000.00. The CBO projects that our national debt will DOUBLE in just the next decade to $20,000,000,000,000.00. Servicing that debt alone will cost $1,000,000,000,000.00 a year.

Don't even think of comparing corporate profit which is EARNED as a productive element of society to the level of government waste that we are seeing and have seen over the last 30 years and particularly over the last 8-9.
--
POKE 65495,1


lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA

reply to footballdude

footballdude See Profile
There's no doubt that many (if not most) corporations are run by greedy people that would sell everything good and wholesome for a buck. There's also no doubt that many (if not most) politicians - especially at the federal level - are greedy people looking out solely for their own careers and back pockets who will sanction absolutely anything that's politically expedient, regardless of how badly people get hurt.
Isn't that the truth...its as if people believe that corporations have a monopoly on greed. The same types of greedy people running the corporations are also running the government. Corps at least have competition and shareholders to keep themselves in check. The gov't? There's no competition to keep the gov't in check, they can tax all they want and waste all they want. No one is going to run the gov't out of business. I guess technically the gov't answers to the voters, but when voters only have two choices, there's not much accountability...

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

reply to Bit00
Our national budget is in such debt precisely because the government has to fix the horrible situation created by the completely irresponsible deregulation of various industries by the Bush administration.

If you knew anything about Keynesian economics you would understand why the government has to pass these stimulus funds to jolt our economy out of the gutter.

On the flip side, once the economy recovers Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to be fiscally responsible.

Even if corporate profit is "earned" (cough monopolies cough), all that profit is essentially a DRAIN on our economy. The money isn't spent. It simply goes into offshore bank accounts where it becomes some sort of rainy day fund for the corporation, or pads rich people's coffers. Every dollar that the government spends actually goes back into the economy, even creating jobs and the like.

The most efficient scenario are for little government interference while corporations make zero profit overall. However, history has shown time and time again that this never happens. When the government lets rich people run amok, they abuse their power.



Bit00
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000

4 edits

Wrong, the government debt was $10,000,000,000,000.00 LONG before there was any hint of a recession and both Republican and Democratic Congresses contributed hugely to it every year. Recession or not, Obama and the Pelosi politburo had their agenda to spend hundreds of billions, he said as much during the campaign, long before the state of the economy reached what it did around the time of the election.

And doubling that debt to $20T won't do anything but cause hyper inflation.

You can't "stimulate" yourself out of recession nor borrow yourself out of debt. The 1930's proved that. And even considering WWII spending, we were in a much better position before and after in terms of debt control and within a few years after WWII, national debt after a percentage of GDP was cut sharply. Obama has ZERO plan to cut spending, NONE, and the CBO projects Obama to DOUBLE our national debt in just 10 years and ever INCREASING deficits. Yeah, he will double in just 10 years a debt that took 30 years to make.

What we had 2 or 3 years of surpluses under a Republican controlled Congress with Clinton over the last 30 years.

The track record or fiscal irresponsibility of both parties is well established. You are a fool if you think for a second that Obama and the Pelosi politburo would actually cut spending, under ANY circumstance. They are the party of government engorgement and make fiscal liberal Bush look like a piker when it comes to deficits.

You want to see Obamanomics? Just look at California. We have been practicing hard core Obamanomics for about 10 years now with it's origins starting with the state employee unions gutting the Gann limits.

Obama will have America insolvent by the end of his first term if he doesn't knock off the pure pork spending 'cause the Chinese are close to done loaning us money for liberal largess.

You will NEVER have fiscal responsibility when you have a single party controlling the legislature and executive branch, Dem or Rep. Only when you have opposition will have have any remote chance of restrained spending.

We NEED government gridlock.
--
POKE 65495,1



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

reply to footballdude
I never said that corporations waste much. I said they reap much larger profits when possible than the gov't will waste.



lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA

said by SLD:

I never said that corporations waste much. I said they reap much larger profits when possible than the gov't will waste.
Thats simply not true as many on this forum have already shown. Furthermore, how much profit a company makes is frankly none of your concern (this is a free country, is it not?). If you think Exxon makes too much money, no one is stopping you from buying your gas at Shell. Its really that simple.


SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Nobody has "shown" anything. And if you read my argument, it is simply that the gov't can provide services at lower cost to its citizens than a private corporation can because there is no profit to consider. Plain and simple. If you "guys" want to make more of it than that, then have fun, but I'm tired of arguing points that others are fabricating and claiming that I wrote such.



lakerfan82

join:2009-01-30
Corona, CA

Your argument is based solely on the "Theory" that since the government has no profit incentive, it can produce goods at a lower price than a profit driven private business. In "theory" that seems reasonable until you realize that since the government has no competition, it also has no "incentive" to produce ever MORE efficiently. REALITY proves this.



SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

And reality also proves that free markets don't work the way you claim either.


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