dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
2967

Use Multicast

Anon

Use Multicast and save vast amounts of bandwidth and costs

perhaps its time to remind the BT executive that infact ALL UK ISPs can and have been given the chance several times to freely peer directly with the BBC on the MULTICAST trials of several years in order to save vast amounts of bandwidth and costs.

BUT BT VM and CPW etc, HAVE CONTINUALLY REFUSED TO freely PEER, OR Unfilter the Multicast protocol and the massive savings that the BBC MULTICAST traffic brings ,to and from their own end users/customers paying the monthly bills CPE kit sat on their desks.

keep in mind also, the official free Multicast peering came on line on the 23/02/06.

thats over 3 years ago now, so there is no excuse to the major UK ISPs not to have implimented this purpose made massive bandwidth saving Multicast protocol and peered with any video streaming providers such as the bbc already payed their fees to their co-location providers for their bandwidth.

there is infact no reason they couldnt use multicast as ALL ISP grade routers and related kit the world over has this generic multicast protocol capability as standard and even comes from the vendors fully activated, the worlds ISP actually have their core network departments take the time and effort to turn the Multicast protocol OFF and filter it from and to the end users certified Multicast capable Cable and *DSL modems.....

»support.bbc.co.uk/multic ··· peering/

»www.uknof.org.uk/uknof4/ ··· cast.pdf

»www.bbc.co.uk/multicast/

until the UK (and all the worlds, even that US place over there on the left of Europe , remember guys THIS IS A UK story) ISPs (are forced? to) re-activate this long standing, existing, currently powered, and currently unused Multicast protocol inside all the ISPs router kit all the way to and from the end users, we the end users can never take advantage of these massive multicast broadband bandwidth upload/download savings, or re-innovate the old MBONE multicast backbone apps and retofit for todays P2p DHT streaming AVC video and related high bandwidth data market place....

put simply, the UKs ISPs have had the choice to use the existing multicast peering o noffer for free, save vast amounts of bandwidth with Multicast, and help REAL innovations to and from the end users of this country.....

the largest UK ISPs such as BT and Virgin Media have refused to take this simple exist Multicast peering option for their own reasons, and its clearly not cash related as Multicast clearly save vast amounts of bandwidth compared to the antiquated unicast point to point video they force us to use as the only option they provide......
FactChecker
Premium Member
join:2008-06-03

2 edits

FactChecker

Premium Member

Why should it be free for the BBC?

Also we have a generation of users that watch less and less linear/live video. People want on-demand these days which multicast does not solve.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

The BBC pays for their bandwidth... Why do you keep saying they don't? Sure they don't manage the pipes, but that's because they're not in the business of it. Even if they did pay for pipes, they wouldn't make any revenue (and profit) off of it the way BT does.

You do understand end users pay BT for their connections *because* of the content providers, right?

It's not free for content providers to produce and manage content. Their business of making and providing content itself costs money. BT is in the business of providing bandwidth. They already make a hefty profit off of this, and over the last several years have failed to invest that profit into upgrading their network.

Why do you think no ISP is willing to shake a stick at this silly argument?

DrModem
Trust Your Doctor
Premium Member
join:2006-10-19
USA

DrModem to FactChecker

Premium Member

to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:

Why should it be free for the BBC?
BBC pays for the bandwidth they use. Your point was?
FactChecker
Premium Member
join:2008-06-03

2 edits

FactChecker

Premium Member

said by DrModem:

said by FactChecker:

Why should it be free for the BBC?
BBC pays for the bandwidth they use. Your point was?
See above
FactChecker

2 edits

FactChecker to sonicmerlin

Premium Member

to sonicmerlin
said by sonicmerlin:

The BBC pays for their bandwidth... Why do you keep saying they don't?
I didn't. I was asking why it should be free since it was stated that they should "freely PEER".
said by sonicmerlin:

It's not free for content providers to produce and manage content. Their business of making and providing content itself costs money. BT is in the business of providing bandwidth.
No argument with that. My statements are around the fact that the BBC now wants to change the model where they get unlimited bandwidth for free (peering) or they will threaten BT and other ISPs with shutting off content to their subscribers (reverse net-neutrality) or they use questionable intermediate ISPs that peer with BT and offer well below market rates / costs required to deliver end to end traffic. They exploit the peering relationships

Use Multicast to FactChecker

Anon

to FactChecker
said by FactChecker:

Why should it be free for the BBC?

Also we have a generation of users that watch less and less linear/live video. People want on-demand these days which multicast does not solve.
hmm, you said amoung other things "Bit's cost money to deliver end to end." so your after reducing the cost to you, fair enough, but then you bring up this odd (is this a US ISP thing?) free peering arrangements are bad !

you cant have it both ways, eather you want to save transit money and bandwidth or you dont...

as for the "we have a generation of users that watch less and less linear/live video. People want on-demand these days which multicast does not solve."

were is it written that end users want realtime on-demand playback as such?, we would be perfectly happy with "Near realtime" on-demand playback, AND MULTICAST IS Perfectly suited to that as was proven by the old MBONE backbone of years gone by.

if only one person asks for a multicasted BBC on-demand program within a short given time, then your still using the same bandwidth amount the antiquated Unicast on-demand
program would use today....

However, if just one more person asks for the same multicasted BBC on-demand program within a short given time, (for arguments sake, say 2-5 minutes on a generic multicast stacking request html webpage), then your instantly saving nearly 50% of the potentially used bandwidth once the muticast stream begins.

multiply that time per request by the popularity of the content provider and your looking at least 100 saved servings per content in a given short timeframe when using Near realtime Multicast protocol that was designed for exactly this purpose, compared to antiquated Unicast poin to point singular serving....

in case its not clear for non Uk readers, BT(*DSL) and virgin media(DS cable) are the two largest ISPs supplying the consumer markets over their own country wide fibre networks, so primarilly the BBC video content flows to these networks through Unicast, as these two ISPs have as stated, not took the BBC up on their free offer to supply the UK licence fee payed for content to them and on to the users/owner of that content as fee payers.

as already stated, the BBC do also pay the doing rates to their Co-Location site providers for their content dataflow OC.

»support.bbc.co.uk/multic ··· peering/

BBC R&D Peering
The BBC operates a separate research network where we trial next generation services & technologies.
Today's project is - Multicast

If you also wish to peer with our production network see »support.bbc.co.uk/suppor ··· peering/

We will peer with any ISP participating in our projects both directly and at Internet Peering Points.

Our peering policy is as follows:

We will peer with an ISP if to do so would be of mutual benefit.
We require you to demonstrate a competence in BGP and TCP/IP networking.
We require you to maintain an english speaking NOC able to respond to issues by email or telephone 24x7.

We do not require a formal peering agreement, but will sign one, subject to negotiation, if you require one.

All BGP sessions should be configured with an MD5 password of at least 15 characters length.

Due to the localised nature of BBC content we require differentiation of UK and other country routes.

For the UK multicast trial you must not distribute 233.122.227/24 and SSM sources from 132.185.224/20 beyond the UK (for avoidance of doubt we'll define UK as areas covered by the TV License fee)

Here is a list of the Internet Peering Points that we currently have a presence at:
.....

p11p
@charter.com

p11p

Anon

said by Use Multicast :

hmm, you said amoung other things "Bit's cost money to deliver end to end." so your after reducing the cost to you, fair enough, but then you bring up this odd (is this a US ISP thing?) free peering arrangements are bad !
Free peering with an entity that is not fairly balanced is a bad thing. Transit for many large ISPs is not an issue and even for mid size ones, it makes up only a fraction of the full end to end cost. The big costs are after the interconnection and allowing unlimted free access at the edge is just looking for trouble on the major parts of your network (middle and last mile)

Peering is good with "like peers" as they share similar network cost burdens to exchange traffic. Kinda like a bill and keep model for voice exchange. Free Peering with a major video source is looking for trouble on any network. It may save you a few transit dollars, but significantly increase your capital costs downstream from that smaller expense.

BTW, Nice BBC advertisment.