said by tipstir :

You won't have any.. Unless our loose power from the power grid. Other than that you'll be good to go.. I had to move mine out of the network closet (mounted high above the door) drilled 3/8 hole to feed the wires back into closet once I did that connections 150/300 and strong/excellent!

said by fonzbear2000 :

Almost 20 days with NO connection drops!

said by stevech0 :

The link light LED is powered by sources on the NIC. The current flowing on common cat5 ethernet is minuscule. With "power over ethernet (PoE)" there is a small amount of current flowing, but still tiny compared to appliances and even wall transformers for electronics.

Ethernet does have power going though the cables as you see your link light from the switch to the the back of your NIC (network interface card).

said by tipstir :

Well if you want the best performance you might want to consider applying these methods. It's really up to you though to do it. I just use the Velcro because it's easier to change wires then to cut the wire plastic ties up.

Ethernet does have power going though the cables as you see your link light from the switch to the the back of your NIC (network interface card).

said by fonzbear2000 :

Thanks. Well, I've been running all the cables near and touching each other for years with NO problems so I'm not too worried. :)

said by stevech0 :

It is true that a wire carrying mains/AC power to a high current appliance/device, may create 50/60Hz inductive fields near the cable. (Think electromagnet).

Not a good idea to run any signal wires many feet parallel to and an inch or so from high current AC wires. But low current, probably OK.

Ethernet on cat5 is differential so it will reject all but very unusually strong "common mode" interference from adjacent wires.

Same, for big AC motors/transformers.

said by tipstir :

live Ethernet cable should not touch live power cords

said by tipstir :

TX: RX:
I don't have a mac so I have to go by what you report.

TX: 150 RX: 300

If you get the 150/300 that's the best you'll get from the router for wireless N. That can vary too though. 120/270 or 120/180.

said by fonzbear2000 :

All the devices are plugged into the same power strip and it's a cheaper one so it doesn't have EMI/EMF reducing. A couple questions:
1.I only see 120-130, nothing with 270-300. How do I see if I'm getting those numbers as well?
2. With LAN, coax, and power cables, the signal that travels through them is on the inside of the cable, correct? So, why would it matter if they're near each other?

PLEASE answer BOTH my questions. Thanks. :)

said by tipstir :

Do you plug-in all your devices into surge protectors or some sort of power strips? Some more expensive ones have EMI/EMF reducing.. All power cables are together. Any coax lines used with cable modem kept away from the rest. All LAN cables are together and if you have phone lines should be kept away. But the only issue you have is your not getting 150/300 so you are really getting 120/270 still not bad though.

said by fonzbear2000 :

LOL. I'm still wondering how to reduce EMI/EMF. And yes, the NICs in all 3 Macs are N.

said by tipstir :

The NIC in your MAC is that draft-N? Speed for you is great but the quality of the link speed is what you have to watch out for! Mine right now I am on in the upper floor second one showing 150/300 and excellent. I was lousy prior in the week, now look out!

said by fonzbear2000 :

Because of the way things are set up, everything has to be near each other and it's not really possible to isolate the LAN/WAN/power cables. How do I reduce the EMI/EMF? Also, that speed just affects how fast files transfer between shared computers correct? Speed tests and file download speeds are just fine. If it's just file transfer speeds between shared computers, that's not really a big deal.

said by tipstir :

That's why I was wondering what you had setup? 130 Tx. I was getting 120 Tx. Now I get Tx 150/300. With the right settings in the router and placement of the router. Isolate all the LAN/WAN/Power cables so nothing is touching. Reduce the EMI/EMF. Router and my external switches and the modem are not near each other.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Hmmmmm, my transmit rate is only 130.

said by bbarrera :

Thats a shame that Belkin N+ only uses the crowded 2.4GHz band, makes wide-band performance suffer if you have a lot of neighbors. Its OK in the SmallNetBuilder price/performance charts:
»www.smallnetbuilder.com/componen···hart,69/

If range isn't an issue then dual-band N provides more flexibility and more channels on 5GHz band. On the uncrowded 5GHz band I'm getting 300Mbps raw connection speeds, and as high as 120Mbps transfer rates. Of course range is usually less than 2.4GHz band. It all comes down to your environment and what you want to optimize (cost, distance, performance).

said by bbarrera :

Are you saying the Belkin N @ 5GHz is wacky?

I've got an Airport Extreme and house is filled with 5.8GHz cordless and with N on lower 5GHz channels (not the upper 5.8GHz ISM band) and with channel bonding it works great. Transferring 5GB ISO files between wired and wireless computers and consistently getting minimum of 75Mbps for the entire transfer. The draft N in my environment is a 100M Ethernet replacement.

said by tipstir :

move the router to another location, locked it to 802.11n an set the Hz to 20Hz that turns off the channel bonding feature that screws the wireless channel setting. Anyway N is stable again..

said by tipstir :

Thanks for the info, the only reason why I had mention the request was I was curious how you had yours setup. I have notice a drop in signal. I had ditched my 5.8GHz cordless for DECT 6.0 (1.9GHz). A few days later N started to act weird. If I put the router in 802.11b/g mode everything is okay. Once I push it to N ouch! So looking at yours I've move the router to another location, locked it to 802.11n an set the Hz to 20Hz that turns off the channel bonding feature that screws the wireless channel setting. Anyway N is stable again..

Take care..

said by fonzbear2000 :

1 floor and a basement.
On the first floor, but no one ever uses laptops in the basement.
No.
5.8GHz.
I don't use the external storage feature on the router.

said by No_Strings :

What laundry detergent do you use and does it make your whites whiter?

Let's keep this relative to the topic at hand.

said by fonzbear2000 :



Stuff is blurred out because it's a white board with a LOT of phone numbers.

said by fonzbear2000 :

You mean a picture of my actual router? What for? LOL

said by tipstir :

Hey if you care too show us all here a picture of your router just showing the router active..

said by fonzbear2000 :

Thanks for the additional input. Well, Belkin must be doing something right. Also, I got the router at Target, not Best Buy LOL. But seriously, whatever it is, be it better firmware, memory, a combination of both, I would VERY HIGHLY recommend this router to anyone having similar problems. It's all good and hopefully it will stay that way. :)

said by No_Strings :

It was covered earlier, but I'll add my thoughts.

Router anomalies like you've described are pretty common for consumer-grade devices. They typically result from memory exhaustion and poorly-written firmware. The most common cause is the use of P2P applications which can create large numbers of TCP/IP connections.

Skimp on memory to keep the cost low, ship firmware with sloppy code and you have the recipe for a BestBuy special.

Compared to the load placed on the router by P2P apps, a few external pings from script kiddies looking for a mark don't count for much.

said by stevech0 :

Not.

said by fonzbear2000 :

You bet. :)

Also, 9 days with NO connection drops! I'm pretty convinced that different wireless routers have different firewalls that block different things and whatever this router is blocking, my previous D-link didn't block which caused it to have connection drops.

said by bbarrera :

The typical reasons for having to reset a wireless router are:
- radio incompatibilities (usually fixed by firmware update on notebook or router)
- P2P or gaming server refresh can cause some routers to run out of memory

And then you have various DNS and DHCP issues, with some cheap consumer routers doing a really bad job of working with Mac OS X even though DHCP and DNS are standards and easy to get right if you are a router vendor.

Its very, very unlikely firewall blocking has anything to do with it, and without more specific info about your disconnects its hard to say (did the Macbook lose IP address, could the Macbook ping the iMac, could you ping the Internet by IP address, etc, etc). I've helped a lot of people and I've never seen the firewall involved with random "disconnect" issues.

Glad the new router is working out for you!

said by fonzbear2000 :

Also, 9 days with NO connection drops! I'm pretty convinced that different wireless routers have different firewalls that block different things and whatever this router is blocking, my previous D-link didn't block which caused it to have connection drops.

said by tipstir :

Thanks for doing that for me..

said by fonzbear2000 :

Connection seems great all around the yard and speed test results are the same. :)

said by tipstir :

Can you go outside with your iMAC like walk around the house to see how you do with the range. If you're battery isn't working on the imac it's okay don't bother. But what you described the router is working great then around the house.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Well, we have an iMac and 2 Macbooks. My dad usually uses the iMac while my sister and I are all over the house on the Macbooks. It's quite rare that we're outside though.

said by tipstir :

You're welcome.. One question for you how close did you placed the Belkin N+ where you use your laptop. Do you use the laptop outside also?

said by fonzbear2000 :

Thanks, I VERY MUCH appreciate all your effort, but being on a Mac, I'm not too worried about it. Now, Winblows is another story.

said by fonzbear2000 :

1. I don't see a Mac version of Comodo: »personalfirewall.comodo.com/down···all.html

2. Why would I need a program like Comodo when Mac already has a software firewall?:

said by No_Strings :

The O/S firewalls in OS X and Windows XP and later are only for incoming connections. Similarly, router firewalls (typically) act only to block incoming attempts based on a limited set of criteria.

Real firewalls, whether in a hardware appliance or add-on to the operating system, allow for much finer control over both incoming and outgoing. If you happen to get a gremlin on your PC (highly unlikely with a MAC), the firewall should a. alert you and b. block any outgoing connections from the malware.

The bad news about s/w firewalls is that they're "noisy," complaining every time a new application tries to get to the outside. Eventually, many users become conditioned to clicking "Allow" or "OK" and don't think about why h4kz0rz.exe wants to access the network or simply turn the firewall off.

said by tipstir :

Well in other words the hardware firewall is still better, but you still need software firewall protection if you don't want software you installed on your PC/MAC to phone home as they say. Comodo Internet Security 3.9 is very good now and it's 100% free for PC! I use that on all my systems. I know you have a MAC so you on your own there.

If you're not doing anything silly in your system then you just surf with the router only. Very quick I must say for Belkin N+ Ralink Chips in there for PU and WPU are very good. The range on this router is 1,200 feet.

said by fonzbear2000 :

I've gone 8 days with NO connection drops and am wondering if my Belkin N+ router's firewall might be blocking things that my old D-link DI-524 did not block because I got connection drops on that router all the time.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Just basically, I wonder if some routers have better firewalls that block more stuff.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Thanks for that explanation, but here's what I'm wondering and if you have an opinion IN YOUR OWN WORDS, I would like to hear it. So far, I've gone 8 days with NO connection drops and am wondering if my Belkin N+ router's firewall might be blocking things that my old D-link DI-524 did not block because I got connection drops on that router all the time. Just basically, I wonder if some routers have better firewalls that block more stuff.

said by tipstir :

Firewall >


Your Router is equipped with a firewall that will protect your network from a wide array of common hacker attacks including Ping of Death (PoD) and Denial of Service (DoS) attacks. You can turn the firewall function off if needed. Turning off the firewall protection will not leave your network completely vulnerable to hacker attacks, but it is recommended that you turn the firewall on whenever possible.

Firewall Enable / Disable > Disable ENABLED

said by fonzbear2000 :

What is DOS and POD? Are they things that the firewall in the router blocks that would cause connection drops?

said by tipstir :

--------------------------Belkin N+
ECO power saver for wireless turns off the ANT
DOS/POD features are part of the firewall
120/240 wireless N before
150/300 wireless N now
----------------------------------

DECT 6.0 cordless phone system to work friendly with wireless network

said by fonzbear2000 :

What the heck are you talking about?????

said by tipstir :

DOs and POd also..

ECO to shutdown the wireless when your sleeping..

My N was 120/240 under DSS 5.8Ghz cordless phones I was using. Now with the DECT 6.0 (1.9GHz) 150/300 under Belkin N+.

said by Its a Secret :

Belkin suxs butt. Sorry, but I recommend a D-Link or LinkSys.

said by Its a Secret :

Belkin suxs butt. Sorry, but I recommend a D-Link or LinkSys.

said by fonzbear2000 :

So far, speeds are still just as great and no lost connections. :)

Now, here's something interesting. The router has a feature my Dlink didn't called WAN ping blocking:
"Block ICMP Ping
Computer hackers use what is known as "Pinging" to find potential victims on the Internet. By pinging a specific IP address and receiving a response from the IP address, a hacker can determine that something of interest might be there. The Router can be set up so it will not respond to an ICMP Ping from the outside. This heightens the level of security of your Router. To turn off the ping response, select "Block ICMP Ping" and click "Apply Changes". The router will not respond to an ICMP ping. "

I wonder if the Dlink would disconnect due to ICMP pings.

said by ispgeek :

LOL!!

At any given moment you may have multiple tcp sessions on a single pc depending on what applications you are running. It's not uncommon for an average user connected to the internet to have 5 to 12 active sessions without even working at it too hard (remember: each browser window you have open will count as 1 tcp session and depending on what you're doing in that window it might count as more "like video within web page). In my case I operate several dynamic websites which require information to be updated every couple of minutes. To reduce load on the web server I have several boxes at home obtaining the content and then sending it up to the servers as needed which ends up being pretty much a constant stream of data from many applications. Additionally they provide streamed audio and video. Hell my home pc has between 20 and 30 active tcp sessions by itself at any given moment.

As far as peer to peer...nope not my game thank you. It's purely hobby/business related and all legit. Not into the darker side of things, havin too much fun doing it the right way thanks :)

Bottom line is the DGL4500 handles a ton of tcp sessions without crapping out and also passes data wan to lan at a phenomonal rate of speed unlike all the others I tested and I tested a ton of em (at one point I was afraid they wouldnt take em back but I explained what I was doing and they backed down). Forget the fancy bells and whistles and displays...I just need it to perform as advertised and it does...

said by stevech0 :

100 simultaneous TCP sessions is a bit much for a consumer home router.

But if most of those are from/to local PCs and servers then the packets go through the switch and not the router so the routing performance doesn't matter. That is, local packets are done by the chips in the switch built into the w-router; the w-router's CPU and firmware aren't involved.

I can't imagine a 100 TCP connection use case for a home router. I can, for a small business purpose, or serving an RV park or some such. I suppose 100 connections can happen if you are a fanatic in peer to peer file sharing - risky biz.

said by stevech0 :

100 simultaneous TCP sessions is a bit much for a consumer home router.

But if most of those are from/to local PCs and servers then the packets go through the switch and not the router so the routing performance doesn't matter. That is, local packets are done by the chips in the switch built into the w-router; the w-router's CPU and firmware aren't involved.

I can't imagine a 100 TCP connection use case for a home router. I can, for a small business purpose, or serving an RV park or some such. I suppose 100 connections can happen if you are a fanatic in peer to peer file sharing - risky biz.

said by ispgeek :

Honestly there are no REALLY good routers under $100. Most have problems or fail to live up to mfr promises in some way. Your best bet is to search the higher end routers and then pick which one has the least complaints in the areas you need covered. Watch for firmware update complaints especially (this is always a bad sign) and rather than get a router that does everything under the sun pick one that does only what it needs to do to fit your application. Also make sure that you pick a router that sports the latest processor technology because speed is king...

In the end I picked a netgear gamerlounge dgl4500 for my application and for the most part it's worked flawlessly. One exception is the latest firmware update however and once you update to it you can't go back . It also came with a pretty hefty pricetag compared to the routers you have talked about.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Would getting just an N be much of an improvement over my current 54mbps wireless G? The main reasons I want to upgrade are 1., sometimes I lose my connection and have to turn off my wireless on my computer and reset the router and I'm hoping the better connection that N gives will fix that and 2., I have Comcast's 12mbps tier with powerboost and only see powerboost speeds when I'm wired directly to the cable modem and I'm hoping an N router will give me better speeds.

said by fonzbear2000 :

The wired computer is 10/100, but I VERY rarely use it so it's fine as is.

said by tipstir :

Hey that's great good job!

TCP.SYS can be tweaked on the wired. Wireless too..

100 instead of 10 by Microsoft default. Below are for Gig and wireless

RWIN, TTL (64) Max ACKs 3 TCP Timestamp on, LAN Buffer Request 16384 instead of 8KB an etc..

said by Poser :

Wow how much do you pay for that service?

said by fonzbear2000 :

Well, I just got the N+ hooked up and it gave me a MAJOR speed increase! Not on speedtest.net though. But on dl.tv. when downloading a file on G, I would NEVER see speeds above 300 KB/sec. Now I see a CONSTANT speed of around 1.3-1.5 MB/sec!!! WOW!!! Now, hopefully the router will stay connected.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Huh? You sure you got it right? Whenever I see people talking about the speed tier their ISP has, they always put "mbps" as in megabits/sec. MB=megabytes and mb=megabits. The speed I am seeing from dl.tv is 1.3-1.5MB/sec as in megaBYTES per sec.

:D

Another with better upload:


Even better on my wired computer:

said by fonzbear2000 :

Well, I decided I'm going to pick up the Belkin N+ at Target for $80. They have a pretty good 90 day return policy so that will give me plenty of time to test it. Thanks again! :)

said by stevech0 :

KB meaning kilobits, not kiloBytes?

300kbps is like DSL speeds.

Any ole wrouter should do.

said by stevech0 :

Probably will not. Need to diagnose correctly problem with 11g system first. Would you get a liver transplant without a firm diagnosis? (yes, a liver isn't a $50 issue)

said by fonzbear2000 :

I know for a fact it's my router that's slowing me down because when I hook a computer DIRECTLY up to my cable modem, I get BETTER speeds. If a router doesn't slow me down, shouldn't I get the SAME speeds when using it?

said by cacroll :

Let me expand on my previous reasoning.
1. You get what you pay for.
2. People who buy cheaper equipment tend to live in areas with more houses closer together. People who buy more expensive equipment tend to live in areas with less houses closer together. More distance between houses = less bandwidth saturation = more satisfaction = less complaints.

But I will, personally recommend the Zyxel P330W, which has done very well for me.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Anyway, again, if anyone knows of a wireless N router for under $50 that is highly rated, please let me know. Considering how long N has been around, I find it VERY hard to believe that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.

said by tipstir :

Modem is the key to your speed a slow modem a slow connection.

said by fonzbear2000 :

Would getting just an N be much of an improvement over my current 54mbps wireless G? The main reasons I want to upgrade are 1., sometimes I lose my connection and have to turn off my wireless on my computer and reset the router and I'm hoping the better connection that N gives will fix that and 2., I have Comcast's 12mbps tier with powerboost and only see powerboost speeds when I'm wired directly to the cable modem and I'm hoping an N router will give me better speeds.

said by fonzbear2000 :

I still want to give one a try. So, if anyone knows of any N routers that are $50 or less and highly rated, please let me know.

said by CylonRed :

See this thread for opinions on N: »Should I buy an "N" router?

I really do not think your problems will be solved with going to N.

said by tipstir :

For $29 bucks more go to Target and buy Belkin N+ for $79 bucks. Wal-Mart sells it too but they're hard to find. Don't settle for 10/100 ports you need 10/100/1000 (gig ports) For serious N and wired speed. Belkin N+ very stable the other two well issues. I think Netgear should stick with switches and get out of the consumer wireless router business.

One more thing: DO NOT! Buy Belkin N (10/100) or Belkin N150 that's more like G/N that goes upto 150mbps and not 300mpbs like in N router and suffers from 10/100 mode.

GET Belkin N+ 10/100/1000 (gig wan/gig lan) N 150/300mbps
USB storage Port.

said by Anav :

Too funny, NO!
But I do recommend the NBG334W by zyxel which has a guest wifi that can only access the internet for less than $50 and/or the P330W by zyxel which is a cheap but effective wifi unit that can act as a wireless WAN unit, or a wifi bridge unit. Cheap N units will be available when companies have sucked all the profit of silly N buyers and are selling the P wifi routers.

said by fonzbear2000 :

I found these 2 on craigslist for $50 and $30:

»www.amazon.com/Netgear-RangeMax-···0126T6HO

»www.amazon.com/D-Link-4-Port-Wir···duct_top

While a lot of people give them 5 stars, there are also quite a few that give only 1 star.

So, does anyone know of any wireless N routers for under $50 that are HIGHLY rated with an average of at LEAST 4 out of 5 stars?