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k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| reply to GeekJedi
Re: I don't see a a problem
said by GeekJedi  :said by k1ll3rdr4g0n :Comcast's Rep Frank told me that using torrent's isn't against the TOS so I don't see how this is (torrent's are technically individual servers and clients in themselves so Frank has now sanctioned using servers on Comcast. Doesn't matter what it says in the TOS; Frank is the mouth piece of corporate.). I have the email to prove it if anyone wants me to post it. Quote applicable law, please? It's pretty explicitly implied that in the case of ambiguity, the TOS is the final authority on what is allowed or prohibited, not "Frank". "Frank" is in fact not the mouthpiece of the company. If "Frank" told you that your service is free, Comcast would not be obligated to provide you service for free. You don't get to pick and choose here. But hey, if you feel you've found a loophole, enjoy... I was waiting for a "you found a loophole but it doesn't work" post.
I think we need a reality check for law. If I walk into a AT&T corp. store and purchase a new phone, ask about data plan and they say it will be free and I have it on recording - if AT&T charges me .01c for data then they have broken the law. In this certain instance I think that would be considered bait and switch. We can even go a step further and say that if I inquired after I had the phone for weeks and they said it would be free - AT&T cannot charge me anything (assuming of course I can prove that they told me it would be free).
Just because a CSR may have said something, doesn't mean they aren't held by law by it. So, your telling me that I can go around saying that this ball of wax is magical healing powers which it really does not?
This isn't a loophole, it's the law. Doesn't matter what the TOS say, if the CSR says it and you have proof - then the company has to abide by it - unless of course we shouldn't trust what CSR tell us? The CSR are the ones that interpert the TOS to the customer, if they don't full understand it, that's not a loophole, that's just stupidity on the companies part and they should higher smarter CSRs or train the ones they have better.
How about this - next time you sign up for service over the phone, such as high speed internet, and the CSR quotes you $50/month but when you get the bill you are paying $60/month don't even think of coming back here to complain because you think it's a "loophole".
To make my point more apparent, and to test those who actually read the PDF, I emailed the RFC definition of a server - you can NOT argue that - to Frank and he indirectly said that torrents and services like logmein that by definition are a server ARE allowed. The next person who posts - think about what I want you to take away from it - not a license for you host servers but a point that ISPs don't care if you do run a server that isn't bandwidth intensive. | |
Post Now
@sbcglobal.net
| Your AT&T Store example has no associated law to be broken. All your recording would do is possibly let you back out of the contract you should have read completely, that does specifically lay out the terms, charges and has a clause stating that store agents and employees do not have the authority to change any of them. You would get the agent in trouble and nothing else would happen. Sorry to pop your balloon. | |
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
| said by Post Now :
Your AT&T Store example has no associated law to be broken. All your recording would do is possibly let you back out of the contract you should have read completely, that does specifically lay out the terms, charges and has a clause stating that store agents and employees do not have the authority to change any of them. You would get the agent in trouble and nothing else would happen. Sorry to pop your balloon.
Please explain your reasoning. No where in the TOS does it say my rate plan?
Also fraud IS a crime.
quote:
A civil fraud typically involves the act of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person to that person's detriment.
I can't tell you one thing and turn around do something completely different without the customer being able to do something about it. Are you saying that as a CSR I can say whatever to the customer (such as a cell phone can do this and that) and when they come back and say it doesn't I can tell them to screw off? Absolutely not. If I have in writing or a recording that you were telling me that the cell phone could do X Y and Z just to sell it to me when it doesn't that is fraud plan and simple. What about car salesmen? Do they not have to abide by some rule of conduct? Or can they just tell me the worst car on the lot is the best? | |
Post Now
@sbcglobal.net
| Your rate plan is in the contract you should be reading before signing as I clearly wrote above.
As a sales person you can say whatever you want but if you contradict the contract terms or promise what you know you can't deliver you'll probably be fired once the customer complains about it. As you should know, the CSRs have no power to change the terms and if they say something which appears to do that--and the customer relies on that information--the company will duly exercise employee disciplinary procedures and release the customer from whatever obligation resulted. The company can easily escape your fraud allegation by pointing to the contract and their swift, decisive action regarding the agent who exceeded his authority.
Car salesmen are covered by specific laws, and yes if they can get you to buy it they certainly will sell you the worst car on the lot. If you are stupid enough to believe them without taking advantage of the consumer protections the law provides than you deserve to be the sucker.
What school is your law degree from? Mine's DePaul. | |
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